1x4 compared to 2x4

[pompeyjohn]

I am building a large desk, on one side of which I'll have a tank. The plan is to use a six foot kitchen counter top from ikea, and then build box frames underneath it using the template suggested on here. I can build it with 2x4 or 1x4. How do I calculate the maximum size tank each stand could hold?

 

[Reefenstein]

www.engineeringtoolbox.com

 

[woodnaquanut]

How big a tank are you thinking about?

Wood is really strong in compression. Unless you are going HUGE simple 3/4" plywood boxes should do the trick. Since it's going to be a desk one side could have drawers!

Just remember not to depend on fasteners (nails, screws) to support the weight. That's what the wood is for!

 

[uncleof6]

I am building a large desk, on one side of which I'll have a tank. The plan is to use a six foot kitchen counter top from ikea, and then build box frames underneath it using the template suggested on here. I can build it with 2x4 or 1x4. How do I calculate the maximum size tank each stand could hold?

By the dimensions of the stand, and the dimensions of the tank. If they match, it will "hold up." A plywood box will hold a tank up to around 240 gallons, larger starts to get risky, but that is being only slightly cautious. dimensioned lumber is not required for a stand, and in many ways is harder to build with than plywood. Plywood is simple and easy, and in some ways stronger (fewer joins.)

Unless it is for strictly aesthetic reasons, I would not waste my time on an Ikea table top, and the vertical support for the tank must be directly below the tank footprint. Dimensioned lumber will not change that either.

 

[pompeyjohn]

Thanks for the replies. The only reason I was looking at the ikea counter top is because I have never laminated wood before.

 

[davocean]

Thanks for the replies. The only reason I was looking at the ikea counter top is because I have never laminated wood before.

I would suspect a laminated Ikea top would be done over some kind of MDF or pressboard, which I would avoid if that is the case.
1x's or ply could be fine depending on the application and joinery skills.

 

[uncleof6]

I would suspect a laminated Ikea top would be done over some kind of MDF or pressboard, which I would avoid if that is the case.
1x's or ply could be fine depending on the application and joinery skills.

I disagree that joinery skills are required. Fancy joinery just isn't needed for a plywood box. Screws and glue is all that is needed (and the screws act as clamps, not for security.) Fancy joinery is a mis-direction by cabinet makers.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1213499

 

[davocean]

I disagree that joinery skills are required. Fancy joinery just isn't needed for a plywood box. Screws and glue is all that is needed (and the screws act as clamps, not for security.) Fancy joinery is a mis-direction by cabinet makers.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1213499

I don't recall using the word fancy, but if you are joining 1x's you should have some basic joinery skills.
The main point of my comment though would be that the Ikea laminant tops are usually MDF or partical board and should be avoided, in case you misread the fancy wording!lol

 

[woodnaquanut]

The OP mentioned he is building a desk. Since desks usually hold things that don't like to be wet, I feel the substrate of the counter is not going to be an issue. If there are spills the tank will most likely be relocated!

When inexperienced people use plywood I think their joinery skills are severely tested. I'm not talking anything fancy. It's a lot harder to cut a really straight line over 20+ inches (typical stand depth) vs. the width of a 2x4.

I find it funny that uncle goes on a on about the dangers of a rookie putting together a glass box but dismisses the skills needed to put together the wood box that will be holding the glass box up!

Fancy joinery? I prefer to call it accurate joinery!

 

[uncleof6]

I don't recall using the word fancy, but if you are joining 1x's you should have some basic joinery skills.
The main point of my comment though would be that the Ikea laminant tops are usually MDF or partical board and should be avoided, in case you misread the fancy wording!lol

OK OK OK... lol... no it is not the fancy wording, it is the word 'joinery' that does not apply to plywood construction. Screws and glue do join things, but they are not 'joinery' as most would intend it to mean. Which is why it oughta be preferred over dimensioned lumber.... laminate tops by IKEA are MDF, and yeah they should be avoided.

Ok, are we square now?

 

[davocean]

Mmm, close, 1x's were mentioned as well and that is where my joinery term came from really, but we good

 

[kaskiles]

Uncle,

What type of saw/jig setup do you recommend to make the long straight cuts in the plywood? Just a circular saw and a straight board clamped as a guide?

Also, for the center cut-outs, how is that most easily done? Plunge in a circular saw and use a guide, stop near the corners and then come back and hand cut those with a miter box saw?

Thanks1

 

[sleepydoc]

I would get a piece of MDF and use the factory side as a straightedge for a circular saw. Most boards you get are not straight. If you're making a lot of cuts, make a jig out of a (long enough) piece of ¼" plywood or hardboard with another piece of ¾" MDF screwed or glued along one side so that the plate of the saw rests on the ¼" stock and slides along/against the ¾" piece. If you make the ¼" piece wider than necessary then trim it with the saw blade, you can just line that edge up with your cut and clamp it in place.

Here's a link:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/reviews/4283497

To the original question, how will you be using the 1x4s? as vertical supports they will be fine. Horizontal on edge they may be adequate, horizontal on their side they likely won't. A picture/diagram would be helpful.

 

[hllywd]

Uncle,

What type of saw/jig setup do you recommend to make the long straight cuts in the plywood? Just a circular saw and a straight board clamped as a guide?

Also, for the center cut-outs, how is that most easily done? Plunge in a circular saw and use a guide, stop near the corners and then come back and hand cut those with a miter box saw?

Thanks1

Just an opinion here, but cutting openings into solid plywood then finishing them well is difficult at worst, and possibly wasteful of material. 1"x face frames either doweled, or more simply glued and fastened with pocket screws can accomplish the same structure as a butchered piece of 3/4" plywood at similar or even less cost, but requiring a little skill. However if you're accomplished enough to plunge cut plywood opening and end up with something you can put in the living room, you should be able to put face frames together. The cut outs if you use plywood could always be trimmed out to make doors or drawer fronts, It's just not the proper way to build a cabinet IMO...

 

[hllywd]

Thanks for the replies. The only reason I was looking at the ikea counter top is because I have never laminated wood before.

Lowes, HD, Menards, etc.. all have ready made laminate tops in stock as well. They have them in various lengths, and the tops can be cut or ordered to custom lengths and finishes too. If the cut ends will be seen, matching laminate end caps are available and easy to install, so you're not limited to what Ikea wants to sell you. They all have and OSB, or "particle board" substrate, and that would be common if you built them up yourself. Spilled water should never come into contact with the underside of the top so that shouldn't be an issue. The one catch is that you should still have support going directly to the floor supporting the footprint of the tank. With an old 30 gallon I still have I have used a countertop on a bar with old site built 3/8" plywood and 1"x face frame cabinets with no issues, I wouldn't go much bigger with that approach.

 

[davocean]

I would get a piece of MDF and use the factory side as a straightedge for a circular saw. Most boards you get are not straight. If you're making a lot of cuts, make a jig out of a (long enough) piece of ¼" plywood or hardboard with another piece of ¾" MDF screwed or glued along one side so that the plate of the saw rests on the ¼" stock and slides along/against the ¾" piece. If you make the ¼" piece wider than necessary then trim it with the saw blade, you can just line that edge up with your cut and clamp it in place.

Here's a link:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/reviews/4283497

.

For nearly the same price you can just buy an inexpensive 8' level and clamp it down the same way, and you will be able to keep/use that level for much longer and get more uses out of it.
I make long rips like this out in the field all the time.
The irwin clamps are great for this.

 

[sleepydoc]

For nearly the same price you can just buy an inexpensive 8' level and clamp it down the same way, and you will be able to keep/use that level for much longer and get more uses out of it.
I make long rips like this out in the field all the time.
The irwin clamps are great for this.

The main advantage of the method I posted was that it doesn't involve measuring between your cut and the straightedge. I also made one with a wider board on the side to allow enough room so the saw motor doesn't hit the clamp.

Otherwise, you're right, a level (or any straight edge) will work fine.

 

[pompeyjohn]

Thanks all for the very helpful comments. I started on a desk using pocket screws, but have put that project to the side for now. At the moment the tank is on 3/4 ply that has been painted with a decking paint, that is supported by a steel stand. I am going to have another go at an all wood structure in a couple of weeks when I have some more time.