2 fish stopped eating, one has a deteriorating mouth???

[Travis]

I am not well knowledged on fish diseases, besides the common visible ones like ich. I'm going to keep this as short as possible (so it actually gets read), if any more details are needed, just ask and I will provide.

I have had all of my current fish for 2 years+. My oldest fish has been with me for over 10 years. All of my fish have been happy and I have had no losses or issues for the past 2-3 years. 5-6 days ago my foxface stopped swimming around. He wedged himself in a crevice in at the bottom of the tank (fortunately in a spot where I can see him) and changed his color to "stressed out" mode. The first 1-2 days his breathing was pretty rapid. The past few days it has slowed to what I would consider normal. It will not swim around the tank and will not eat food even if it floats by his mouth and touches it. I just noticed tonight that it appears that part of his mouth is rotting away.

2 days ago, my achilles tang (my baby that's been with me for 6 years) has isolated himself to a small corner of the tank. This has always been my most active fish and has always constantly swam around using the whole tank space. Now it stays in a 12" x 12" area. Still swims around but just in that little area and a lot of times swimming in circles. Noticed today (this is the first day) that he is also not eating now.

The obvious disease I know of is ich and the fish do not have this. I am not well-versed on other diseases. Does anyone have any ideas on what could be going on?

Tank details:
-280 gallons (72x30x30)
-return pump - Sequence 5800
-skimmer - Bubble King 400
-150-200 lbs. live rock
-system has been running for 6 years
-fish list - 2 percula clowns, 6 pajama cardinals, tomini tang, achilles tang, foxface, purple tang, 2 yellow tangs, lawnmower blenny

Recent changes:
-Removed all corals and went to FOWLR about 2 months ago.
-Redid aquascape 2 weeks ago.
-1 week ago, my purple tang started establishing dominance in the tank and is still harassing most of the tankmates.


I can remove the affected fish and treat them in a quarantine tank if needed.

 

[Travis]

Here is a picture of the foxface. Notice the "deterioration" of its upper mouth.

 

[RBU1]

Have you taken an ammonia reading? Do a large water change and run carbon.

 

[Travis]

Have you taken an ammonia reading? Do a large water change and run carbon.

No I haven't. After I posted this last night I got to thinking about it though. Since I went fish only I have been feeding a lot more because I don't have to worry about keeping the water as pristine for sps corals. Maybe I didn't increase my feeding gradually enough. I will check ammonia when I get home. I have 100 gallons of fresh saltwater ready to go at all times so I can do a 30% water change also. Can ammonia cause this type of behavior in fish? Also, what about the deterioration of the foxfish's mouth?

 

[RBU1]

Amonnia can cause all types of problems. I know it burns gills so I would think it could do some other things. It was just a thought....Not sure its correct but who knows....Lay off the feeding for a couple days and do that large water change. If you really want to play it safe get some Seachem Prime of something that can bind the amonnia. That is if you get a reading....

 

[Travis]

Did an ammonia test yesterday with an API kit. So hard to tell the color but somewhere between 0 and .25 being a little closer to .25. Added some Amquel yesterday and didn't feed the tank. 100 gallon waterchange today and fed half as much as I have been lately. Will check ammonia again tomorrow. No change in the foxface or achilles. No better, no worse. Rest of the fish seem to be fine.

 

[RBU1]

Hopefully the water change and the amquel will start to turn things around. You should be getting 0 ammonnia unless the tank is new.

 

[Travis]

So I have been doing a fair amount of research the past couple days and I am really starting to think it could be flukes. The tell-tale sign to me is that the fish seemed normal and healthy and then overnight they isolate themselves and have no interest in food. Also, just remembered that I noticed a slime coat coming off the foxface about 3-4 days after he stopped eating. All seem to be pointing towards flukes, IMO. I'm going to try to catch either the foxface or achilles tonight and do a FW dip and see if anything shows up. The thing that is so strange is my tank has gone a good 2 years or longer without adding any new fish.

 

[TripleT]

What are you feeding your tank, and how often?

Could the foxface's mouth be a result of the tang attacking?

 

[Travis]

I have been feeding my tank 1 full sheet of nori and my own blend of frozen food (equal to 4 or so small cubes of packed frozen food sold at the LFS) daily. Starting yesterday, I decreased the total amount of food added to half.

 

[RBU1]

Anything is possible....But if you have not added anything in 2 years and the fish were fine...I have a hard time with the flukes theory. Any cloudy spots on the fins or eyes? Any twitching of the head?

 

[Travis]

Pulled the foxface and did a freshwater dip today. Noticed quite a few abrasions on the foxface's body. Couple areas with black spots, but I think they were from abrasions and not "black ich". Tail is missing some pieces but I'm guessing from a fish biting at it since the fish literally has not moved for a week now. The pump I used to aerate the freshwater was old and dirty so there was a lot of debris in the bottom of the pail. After the dip, it was hard to see anything amongst the debris but 99.9% sure there weren't any sesame seed sized flukes in there. Quite a few black specs in the bottom of the pail and I'm not sure if they were there before the dip or not.

Foxface is severely stressed right now. Breathing rapidly and not moving much. If it wasn't venomous I could pick it up out of the water with my hands and it probably wouldn't even put up a fight.

Fairly confident it isn't flukes but I'm having a hard time believing it is ammonia also. Really at a loss right now. Thinking of treating the system with prazi pro to rule out flukes but if the problem is ammonia I don't want to go skimmerless for 2 weeks either.

 

[Travis]

Anything is possible....But if you have not added anything in 2 years and the fish were fine...I have a hard time with the flukes theory. Any cloudy spots on the fins or eyes? Any twitching of the head?

Almost forgot to answer your questions. Eyes are clear and no twitching at all.

 

[Travis]

Here is a pic before the dip:

The picture isn't very clear but you can see some of the abrasions on the side of its body (yellow area) along the dorsal fin area. This is where I noticed the black spots.

One thing that I find odd is this fish hasn't eaten for a week but is plump like it just got done eating a huge meal 5 minutes ago. Could there be something wrong with his digestive system? Constipation?

 

[RBU1]

Do you run carbon? If not I think you should just make sure you rinse it prior to using it. Did you do a large water change?

 

[TripleT]

I'd watch the tank for a while, from a distance.

I think the tang is kicking his butt.

If you separate them, I bet you will see improvement.

 

[Travis]

Do you run carbon? If not I think you should just make sure you rinse it prior to using it. Did you do a large water change?

I've got around 3 cups of carbon in the sump right now. Did a 100 gallon water change yesterday.

 

[RBU1]

I've got around 3 cups of carbon in the sump right now. Did a 100 gallon water change yesterday.

OK well lets see what happens.

 

[Travis]

I'd watch the tank for a while, from a distance.

I think the tang is kicking his butt.

If you separate them, I bet you will see improvement.

That really is becoming the most likely scenario. I did spend a half hour before lights out and a half hour after lights out watching the tank from a distance last night. Purple tang is still being a bit of a bully but nothing too bad that I noticed. Odd thing is, the foxface, purple tang, and achilles have all lived together for the past 5+ years and not until now has there been an issue.

 

[TripleT]

They've all grown... and you've been doing some major tank renovating/decorating in the last 2 months.

Did the previous aquascaping provide more separated territories?

Ever spend years in a small area with other people? Coworkers? Wouldn't you like to smack them around once in a while?