2 Mature Clowns in a Biocube 14g??

[dagon138]

I have a single clown along with RBTA in my 10 gallon w/70w MH.
Even with some SPS, and softies.

Both have been fine for 1.5 years.

Still, I use a2-gallon HOB refuge, and never miss a weekly 20% water changes. (no skimmer)
I also don't directly feed the anemone, just because it seems to just make a mess every time I've tried, and it's super easy to over feed the tank.
Getting an ATO was also something I didn't skimp on either.

The RBTA is still on the small side, but has never even moved and has a good color. The Clown is yes..a saddle-back but again it's small still, and it gets along with the RBTA fine.

So yea, it's doable..but it's not for the lazy. I will move everyone eventually out of there when they outgrow it.

 

[MarineBioHSU]

I respect everyones opinion here, and indeed many of the folks who replied have considerable experience, so please do not take my advice/experience has a disregard for the aforementioned advice.

In regards to the space issues, while I FULLY agree that even if a fish can "fit" in a tank so to say, it shouldn't necessarily be foreced to live in that space. However, clownfish are very territorial fish and typically attached to a spawning/home site. I have maintained breeding pairs of many clownfish species in 5g tanks, and in fact often times I keep Ocellaris/Percula pairs in 6"x6"x6" cubes with no problems. I used to keep them in ten gallon tanks, but got tired of wasting all the space when the fish would not ever leave their tile house, not even to eat. In my opinion a 14g is plenty large for a pair of marroons, PROVIDED you keep the water quality up.

Likewise a 14g Biocube is also plenty large for a BTA, however this is of course dependant upon maintenance of water quality etc. Additionally I would be inclined to seek out a captive propagated BTA from a line that is known to stay smaller and split frequently, that way in the event of over-crowding you can remove some of the clones.

Best of luck.

 

[iClown]

Thanks again to all for your input. I've leaning towards soft corals now and is in the process of research. I learned patience & research is key to success so that is what I'm going to do. Pictures will be updated when possible. Thanks again!

 

[davocean]

Frogspawn or hammer would be a much better choice than a BTA.
keep in mind a BTA fully grown would take up that whole tank, and always be right up against any intakes as well as tough to maintain stability.
Comparing breeder tanks/systems is very different, those are usually tapped in together or w/ a bigger volume of water and filtration, very different than the average hobbiest small tank setup.

 

[WaffleWalffle22]

Frogspawn or hammer would be a much better choice than a BTA.
keep in mind a BTA fully grown would take up that whole tank, and always be right up against any intakes as well as tough to maintain stability.
Comparing breeder tanks/systems is very different, those are usually tapped in together or w/ a bigger volume of water and filtration, very different than the average hobbiest small tank setup.

+1

BTW, a BTA won't be able to survive long under the BioCube's stock lighting. Upgrade to LED.

 

[MarineBioHSU]

Frogspawn certainly could be a good choics, just make sure you start with a large enough frag so it doesn't get beat to death by the clowns!

I still maintain that if you are vigilant, a BTA would be suitable for the tank. I maintained a BTA in an 8g tank under PC lighting for 6 years before I decided to upgrade tank size.

HOWEVER, I do not want to invalidate the advice given above, solid avice to be sure. Just trying to point out that there are multiple options.

 

[davocean]

Wow, a normal BTA would probably be hanging over the edge of an 8g tank w/in one year size wise, or have a ton of splits.
6years makes me wonder how that worked out.
PC's are not the issue, BTA's are fairly forgiving in light needs.

 

[Toddrtrex]

IMO/E, if an E. Quadricolor hadn't outgrown an 8 gallon tank after 6 years, it was surviving and not thriving -- not something that we should strive for.

 

[MelloW33]

FWIW, my 2 RBTA's easily take up a third of my 72" and I would like to think that they are thriving. Before I purchased a RBTA, my percs called my frogspawn their home.

 

[MarineBioHSU]

As I mentioned in my previous thread, obtaining a sm/med clone from stock that is known to split often is the best option for a smaller tank, which is exactly how I made it work.

 

[davocean]

As I mentioned in my previous thread, obtaining a sm/med clone from stock that is known to split often is the best option for a smaller tank, which is exactly how I made it work.

If a BTA is splitting often, it is out of stress and survival instinct.
This has nothing to do w/ having a success in keeping one, but more less barely keeping one alive.

 

[MarineBioHSU]

Davocean, I am sorry but that is not wholly accurate. The assumption that asexual reproduction is due to environmental stress is a complete contradiction to basic evolutionary processes. To be clear, sexual reproduction is a much more likely to occur as a last ditch effort should environmental cues dictate a response to a percieved threat of a species survival.

 

[davocean]

Not correct.
Many keep BTA's successfully that grow healthy and may go years w/out splitting.
Excessive splitting is a last ditch effort for a piece of that nem to find a better place to hopefully survive and thrive.
You're going to have a difficult time convincing experienced nem keepers to think otherwise.

 

[Toddrtrex]

Going to have to agree with Dave completely on this -- been keeping anemones (( including E. Quads )) for 15+ years.

 

[deangelr]

To be clear, sexual reproduction is a much more likely to occur as a last ditch effort should environmental cues dictate a response to a percieved threat of a species survival.

Source?

 

[MarineBioHSU]

I respect your experience, and clearly you are both passionate about the well being of the animals in your care, which I admire. HOWEVER, you are unfortunately not very clear on the basic biology of these animals.

Reproduction through asexual fission is simply reproduction through mitotic division, therefore reproduction in this manner does not serve as a method of adaptation to environmental stresses. For example, say the environmental parameters are changing such that the anemone population in question can no longer survive. If they were to divide, they would simply create more clones that would likewise not be able to survive in the changing conditions. No benefit.

If however, they were to reproduce via sexual means, then the mixing of gametes and the recombination of genes would give the animals a better chance at hitting on a successful mutation that would allow for a more adapted population, that is to say one more capable of surviving the new conditions.

If the conditons are favorable, then there is every reason for the anemone to reproduce through division, in other words things are clearly working for its genotype, so it would be advantageous to spread its individual genetic profile.

I think many folks are under the mistaken idea that stressful an anemone division event, such as one after a large water change is induced by stress, again this illustrates a clear lack of knowledge of anemone biology.

My qualifications? Over a decade of experience with anemones, a background in Marine Biology and Evolutionary Biology. Additionally, I am actively involved in Anemone Aquaculture, of several different host species, to include research and development in the feasability of both sexual and asexual reproduction.

Again, I appreciate your experience, clearly you are dedicated to the animals in your care which I greatly admire, and to that extent I thank you for your passion.

 

[Toddrtrex]

HOWEVER, I am going to disagree with you -- and I would like to see some source material to back up your claims that asexual fission is not used during times of stress.

And, to be honest, it is hard to take in your information when you start off by insulting us.

 

[kingfisherflesh]

Marinebio...as reading the previous posts, I was going to say the exact same thing.

Sexual reproduction is more common vs cloning when conditions are poor or stressful as a general biology rule.

In addition to that I have seen many BTA's splitting ONLY when fed. I knew one guy who would feed his RBTA only when people asked for a clone. He would give it a shrimp, and they would come back in a month or so for their clone.

As far as two clowns in a 14g, some may say it is too small, but for a fish that rarely leaves the cover of its host, I would say it is do able, and I have seen people do it before. It just comes down to whether or not you feel okay keeping them in that small of an environment.

 

[deangelr]

I respect your experience, and clearly you are both passionate about the well being of the animals in your care, which I admire. HOWEVER, you are unfortunately not very clear on the basic biology of these animals.

Reproduction through asexual fission is simply reproduction through mitotic division, therefore reproduction in this manner does not serve as a method of adaptation to environmental stresses. For example, say the environmental parameters are changing such that the anemone population in question can no longer survive. If they were to divide, they would simply create more clones that would likewise not be able to survive in the changing conditions. No benefit.

If however, they were to reproduce via sexual means, then the mixing of gametes and the recombination of genes would give the animals a better chance at hitting on a successful mutation that would allow for a more adapted population, that is to say one more capable of surviving the new conditions.

If the conditons are favorable, then there is every reason for the anemone to reproduce through division, in other words things are clearly working for its genotype, so it would be advantageous to spread its individual genetic profile.

I think many folks are under the mistaken idea that stressful an anemone division event, such as one after a large water change is induced by stress, again this illustrates a clear lack of knowledge of anemone biology.

My qualifications? Over a decade of experience with anemones, a background in Marine Biology and Evolutionary Biology. Additionally, I am actively involved in Anemone Aquaculture, of several different host species, to include research and development in the feasability of both sexual and asexual reproduction.

Again, I appreciate your experience, clearly you are dedicated to the animals in your care which I greatly admire, and to that extent I thank you for your passion.

:spin3: Thanks MarineBio for the mitosis/meiosis Bio 1 recap.. No one on this forum understand reproductive biology like you do.

 

[MelloW33]

Todd, FWIW I have to agree with you on the stress-induced fission here. I put my RBTA in a 5g bucket with just a heater for 2 days and it split.