2 Mature Clowns in a Biocube 14g??

[MarineBioHSU]

I apologize if I have offended you, perhaps you missed where I clearly stated that I appreciated your expereince and opinion and in fact thanked you for your passion? And in fact, while pointing out my point of view I was sure to acknowledge that I was not intending to invalidate your advice, hardly rude I think...

I have been very reasonable, while you have been anything but, simply arguing without any valid counter-points. Additionally, I am not preaching a new radical theory, this is basic evolutionary biology. Any good used book store will have a biology textbook, I am sure you can find one.

 

[Toddrtrex]

Todd, FWIW I have to agree with you on the stress-induced fission here. I put my RBTA in a 5g bucket with just a heater for 2 days and it split.

Thanks.

IMO/E, anemones that naturally split (( E. Quads and Mags )) can/will split during times of stress as a means of survival; have seen it numerous times with E. Quads (( none of mine every spawned, stress or not )). Whereas an anemone that doesn't naturally split (( S. Haddoni come to mind )) will spawn during times of stress -- have personally witnessed it.

 

[MarineBioHSU]

:spin3: Thanks MarineBio for the mitosis/meiosis Bio 1 recap.. No one on this forum understand reproductive biology like you do.

Clever....? Not exactly an intelligent argument... :spin2:

 

[Toddrtrex]

I apologize if I have offended you, perhaps you missed where I clearly stated that I appreciated your expereince and opinion and in fact thanked you for your passion? And in fact, while pointing out my point of view I was sure to acknowledge that I was not intending to invalidate your advice, hardly rude I think...

I have been very reasonable, while you have been anything but, simply arguing without any valid counter-points. Additionally, I am not preaching a new radical theory, this is basic evolutionary biology. Any good used book store will have a biology textbook, I am sure you can find one.

If you can, read my post right above this -- is my experience not a valid counter-point for you? Or is are my experiences invalid because they don't match your thinking?

 

[MarineBioHSU]

Thanks.

IMO/E, anemones that naturally split (( E. Quads and Mags )) can/will split during times of stress as a means of survival; have seen it numerous times with E. Quads (( none of mine every spawned, stress or not )). Whereas an anemone that doesn't naturally split (( S. Haddoni come to mind )) will spawn during times of stress -- have personally witnessed it.

While your observations certainly are valid, they prove nothing.

Clearly you are not willing to examine the scientific evidence, but rather would simply prefer to make absolute statements based on innacurate assumptions.

 

[deangelr]

I havent seen any scientific evidence. I would honeslty love to read up on it.. that is pretty much what this forum is all about..

 

[kingfisherflesh]

You realize that just because you have observed a situation that you deem "stressful" resulting in the fission of your anemone doesnt mean that this is why it is splitting, or that you are right.

The basic biology rule that he stated applies to virtually all animals that have the option of producing sexually or asexually.

What in your mind, would be the advantage of cloning yourself, and spreading your young in an area where the conditions are "bad". In addition, what would be the advantage of not mixing genes, and therefore missing out on a chance to be better adapted to the "poor" conditions.

I think that people are just asking for you to justify your answer from a biology standpoint. Observation is good, but it is just the start of making a scientifically correct statement.

 

[davocean]

In addition to that I have seen many BTA's splitting ONLY when fed. I knew one guy who would feed his RBTA only when people asked for a clone. He would give it a shrimp, and they would come back in a month or so for their clone.

This has been a long known method of inducing a split.
Overfeeding causes stress, an easy safe way to gain a clone.
Thank you for adding to our point that most often excessive splitting is a sign of stress.

 

[kingfisherflesh]

This has been a long known method of inducing a split.
Overfeeding causes stress, an easy safe way to gain a clone.
Thank you for adding to our point that most often excessive splitting is a sign of stress.

Because you know that they were overfed?

You have no control, you have no experiment.

I am not saying that I dont appreciate your experience, but I just think that there is more to this than you are saying.

It is also poor science to discredit a basic fundamental truth of biology.

 

[MarineBioHSU]

LET ME BE CLEAR:

Again, I very much respect the experience and passion/knowledge of the other members. I am in no way trying to be disrepectful, or imply that you have no valid points etc. My goal is to share information, and where I see inaccuracies, try to correct them.

My point is, as kingfisher has also said, stating that "anemones divide only because they are stressed" is lacking in scientific basis, it is a single observation based on a single proposed idea. It does not take into account other factors.

Again, open any textbook on biology, the evidence is all there...

 

[MelloW33]

What in your mind, would be the advantage of cloning yourself, and spreading your young in an area where the conditions are "bad".

I am the farthest thing from a marine biologist (an accountant) but I can see the advantage of spreading young in bad conditions. Wouldn't having multiple specimens increase the odds that one in the species would survive?

 

[davocean]

For years now I've seen people ask about cutting nems, and we commonly advise against it, and offer a better safer solution which is simply stress them by over feeding.
Many do this, works like a charm.
Splits also are very common upon a transfer to a new tank, new params, a shift that stresses the animal into splitting.
If you've read here for a while you will have observed this first hand, many many times...w/ pics

 

[MarineBioHSU]

Davocean: Feeding causes stess?! Are you kidding....

You are telling me that an anemone will on its own accord ingest food, even though it is "stressful" for it?! Do you understand the fallacies of this argument?

 

[MelloW33]

I believe he said overfeed.

 

[davocean]

This is where you may be getting confused w/ the info you are taking in, reading too fast, not comprehending what is being said.
"Overfeeding" is what I was talking about, not just feeding a nem.

 

[davocean]

I believe he said overfeed.

Thank you, glad someone is paying attention.

 

[davocean]

What in your mind, would be the advantage of cloning yourself, and spreading your young in an area where the conditions are "bad".

I am the farthest thing from a marine biologist (an accountant) but I can see the advantage of spreading young in bad conditions. Wouldn't having multiple specimens increase the odds that one in the species would survive?

Mello gets it.

 

[Toddrtrex]

MarineBioHSU -- you are the one making the claim (( and mind you with nothing to back it up )) that stress/"survival of the species" is NOT done by asexual reproduction, and instead by sexual reproduction. Myself and others have claimed otherwise, with personal observations, that you claim prove nothing. To follow that, how are we to believe you when you have zero proof to back up your claim. Stating "look it up in a textbook" is not a valid response, the onus is on you to back up your claim with some sort of proof.

 

[MarineBioHSU]

MellowW33: The problem with cloning is that all the specimens would be genetically identical, there is no recombination of genes. So even if one individual became ten thousand through mitotic division, they would ALL be succeptible to the same problems.

For example, say population A and B live in close proximity to each other. A new pathogen is introduced that both populations have no immunity to. Population A reproduces through cloning where-as population B instead starts reproducing through sexual means, aka the release of gametes. Well, population A, while increasing their population are still going to get wiped out by the virus as they have not changed their genotype to deal with the new pathogen. Population B on the otherhand while eing severly depleated will likely continue on as a small percentage of the offspring produced from gametic mixing will *hopefully* have inherited a gene that will help them fight of the disease, therefore being the most fit. Of course there are other factors to consider, as there can be a very low rate of mitotic mutation, but not nearly at the same rate as is achieved from gene recombination. Make sense?

 

[MelloW33]

Mello gets it.

lol, thanks. I'm no biology major but I am pretty good with statistics and know that two nems would have a better chance of having one survive than one.