200g in-wall project officially started

An issue Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve run into is the overall height of the aquarium. When I initially thought this out I neglected to figure up the height of a 25ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ tall aquarium atop a 44ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ stand. I guess I was more focused on the 42ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ height of the bar in front of the tank and it never really hit me that the top of the tank will be nearly as tall as I am. I guess this means standing on a short folding ladder whenever I want to get into the tank. ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦or possibly a platform behind the tank to stand on, which would take up quite a bit of remaining real estate in the fish room behind the tank.

Along with that issue is the issue of adequate ceiling clearance above the tank. I am only going to have ~15.5 inches above the tank before the ceiling. I guess I need to look into building a sliding light rack. :(
 
Watch how close you get the MH to the water. Although yours will be all open for the most part so you should be ok.
 
i've been thinking more about the overflow setup for this tank. instead of the tank-long overflow, i have decided to go with two smaller overflow boxes over the far two bulkheads on each end of the tank. i asked for quotes from some online tank manufactures for acrylic teethed overflow boxes sized 22x4x4. you would gasp if you saw the price. i expected them to be expensive, but wow.

a fellow rc memeber saw another post i was asking questions in and offered to make me some overflows to size. he has spare black acrylic and sent me pictures of an overflow he made for someone else and his work looks good.

we were talking teeth size and now i'm trying to decide how i want the teeth cut. he has the ability to do whatever i request. my last overflow box was 1/4" cutouts spaced with 1/2" teeth and my clown goby kept getting sucked through chasing food at feeding time. i'd like to have that not be an issue this time because it's going to be very difficult to get anything out of the overflow boxes due to the acrylic top bracing. in fact, i will probably mate the tops of the teeth right up to the top brace. this would allow me to be certain the overflows are level.

according to the overflow calculator i need at least 15" of linear overflow. i'll have 52" before cutting teeth.
 
actually, i think i just found the winner.

i can do a toothless design with gutter guard or egg crate. i think i'll have him make posts on the ends so that i can still mate it up to the top of the tank to ensure they're dead level.

they would look something like this:

overflowidea.jpg


also, galilean was kind enough to take the actual measurements of all of the holes and bracing on the tank. he did the engineering (thank you!) and determined that the weakest point of the tank is the front center bottom of the tank. ...and that point is still 30 times stronger than it needs to be. this is assuming pristine condition acrylic and joints, however. but since this tank has held water for at least 10-12 years, i'm pretty satisfied with the results of his work.

here is the rendering:

200g-model2.jpg


i added one additional bulkhead on the right side at the bottom. i'll use these with 90* elbos pointed up as the closed loop intakes. i should be able to stack liverock around them so it will suck current into the rock.
 
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Wow Galilean, I am impressed. VERY IMPRESSED. That is a damn good likeness of his tank!!! Good idea about the closed loop. Your going to stick a dart on there right? What were you planning on for a return pump? a panworld or the like? I wouldnt think you would need a very large pump. With the size sump you could have a huge fuge as well. Hell with your setup you could use a stock tank for a fuge and another for skimmer, return pump, therms, etc.... That would be tight to have a 100g fuge :P. You are going to have to figure out how to automate your water changes too man. Your going to have ALOT of water in there :P

Looks good so far man.
 
Oh and you might want to rethink the egg crate bro. That stuff has pretty big holes in it. Im sure a small fish could swim through that no problem at all. I might consider just asking him to do thin slits but have several of them very close togeather. Better thin and have alot of them than big ones that you risk getting something in there that you cant ever get back out. Plus you dont want even small snails getting in there if you can help it.
 
i do indeed plan to use a dart for the closed loop. i'm still thinking about the ocenas motions 4-way device, but at $320 i'm not sure it's quite worth the chunk of change. it would be neat, but i just don't know. at this point i'm planning to simply split the return from the dart into 3 lines, using the 3 holes in the top front of the tank for their locations.

i'm still undecided about a return pump for the sump at this point. i want something that will flow ~1,000gph or a little under after the head loss...and be as power efficient as possible.

i do plan to use a separate stock tank for the fuge. it will either be another 100g or possibly a 70g. i'll feed and control flow to the fuge with a ball valve off of a "T" from the return line from the sump, recirulating the fuge back to the sump via gravity. there is a guy in the "large tank forum" who has a similar design that i'm basing some of this off of. his setup is really slick. i will indeed "automate" the water changes. ;) speaking of that, i still need to go buy a laundry-style sink basin and plumb it to the washer/dryer drain and water supplies. i need to get on that, actually.

not really concerned about animals in the overflow at this point. small snails might get in it, but i doubt any fish will. there will only be 1/4" clearance to the top brace over the overflow and the water will be a super thin layer. i should be able to brush small stuff out of the overflows through the holes at the back top of the tank. ...and if i need to i can always disconnect the plumbing from the back of the bulkheads and brush them out that way.
 
I like the straight edge on the overflow. I've always had problems with algae and detritus getting stuck in the teeth of typical overflows. Plus, a straight edge allows for the thinnest layer of water to pass over, which is ideal to feed into a skimmer. Keep up the good work.
 
rick, thanks for the input.

i still need to build at least one of your tall skimmers, too. can you take some closeup pictures of one of them for me? specifically, i want to see how you are feeding the water to them and back to the tanks. i may plumb one of the overflows directly to the skimmer, if that's possible and advisable.
 
Yes, you can gravity feed a skimmer from an overflow. Then have the skimmer's outlet pipe drain into the sump/fuge.... saves the expense of a pump.

There's a thread around here somewhere with a parts list....found it.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=699977&highlight=skimmers

Here's the overall construction.
mini-100_0545.JPG


Here is the best shot I could come up with, kind of difficult to get a pic back behind the tank.

mini-100_0654.JPG


The bulkhead (black object partially blocking the view of the farthest pump in the pic) feeds from the overflow box to the inlet of the pump. The overflow bulkhead is 1 1/2" but is reduced down to 3/4" just before it connects to the pump.
The outlet of the pump is 3/4" also. Pumps straight up to the tee where it is reduced to 1/2" and feeds out to both skimmers.
If you follow the second skimmer in the pic downwards, you can just make out the lower tee. It comes up in 1" pipe, through the gate valve and into the tank.

In your applicatoin, just feed the overflow to the upper tee of the skimmer (which will have to be a little lower than the overflow, so you will have to adjust the heigth of the skimmer body accordingly). Plumb the lower tee to return through a gate valve (ball valves are too difficult to get a fine adjustment) into the sump. It will probably be beneficial to run the outlet pipe straight up as high as you want the water level to be before turning it back downwards to go to the sump. Then where the outlet pipe turns (up at the top), place a tee instead of a 90 to create a vent. Otherwise you will just be creating a siphon and the water will go like a tiolet...flush...flush...flush...over and over which will bounce your water level inside the skimmer up and down as it flushes.

Having the water pumped, I am using a 480 gph to feed two skimmers. Tschopp told me that the flow rate will be limited by the body of the skimmer. I think he said somewhere around 300 gph for a 3" body. I don't know what your overflow rate will be, but you may have to use a bigger pipe for the inlet and outlet tees (if you go with a three inch body). If your overflow rate is more than that, you might consider even going up to a 4" body. I don't know about only feeding one overflow to the skimmer either. Ideally (theoretically), the overflow rate through one box would be 1/2 of the total and would be constant. In dynamic action though...???...if the rate through one box varies by much at all, it will affect the water level inside the skimmer and affect it's performance. Just have to experiment around with it and see how it works. Maybe put a pump on it if the water level is going up and down inside the skimmer too much.


I didn't glue the riser pipe either, You may find it prudent to glue it, and then maybe install a union to be able to remove the riser pipe for cleaning. It doesn't matter to me if the pipe leaks a little water every now and then, but probably not a god idea in your basement.

Hope that's not too confusing.
 
not confusing, but a lot to take in.

thanks for the info. it does help a lot. it sounds to me like connecting one of these skimmes to an overflow might not be the best idea. do you think that if i made two of these skimmers out of 4" pvc and tie all four bulkheads coming out of the overflows together, then split them again to the two skimmers that they would be able to handle the flow?

also, what if i also branch off after the overflows, but before the skimmers and send some water to the fuge and control the flow with a gate/ball valve? this might give pods and what-nots in the fuge a better chance at food as opposed to having the feed down line from the skimmers, while at the same time lessening the flow to the skimmers.

thoughts?
 
depends on the flow rate. Tschopp knows more than I do about what size pipes can handle what amount of flow, but I think he told me a 4" could handle around 600 gph.

I would think you could branch off for the fuge like you said, as long as the flow through the skimmer(s) is(are) fairly steady. If you are talking about controlling flow, gate valves are much better than ball valves, Ball valves are ok for on-off applications, or if the flow does not need to be controlled precisely (like in a closed loop, or a return pump). With a skimmer as part of the piping of any given system, I would recommend gate valves
 
Like Rick said 650 gph is about right for a 4" pipe. Much above that and the water is flowing too fast for the small air bubbles to rise properly and they get sucked out the water exit. You can double the flow for each size in pipe so 1300 gph at 6", 2500 gph at 8".

I would not recomend putting a gate valve or any kind of restriction on a skimmer that is fed by an overflow. I prefer to set the water level in the skimmer with esentially another overflow made of pvc pipe (make an upside down U with a Tee and an El). The Tee allows air in so the thing does not siphon, the height of the water in the skimmer is set by the height of the U. This keeps the skimmer set right regardless of the flow and you will not risk flooding. I have heard too many people trying to put a valve on their overflow to "balance" things and getting a flood. I think the same applies to a skimmer that is fed by an overflow.

Also how long is your overflow planned? 1/4" seems a bit tight, but if it is 1000 gph and long enough it could be OK. I can calulate the height of the water over the overflow depending on its length and the flow rate.

Steve
 
thanks steve...

at this point i'm undecided about the overflows again. the guy who said he would make the "fenced" overflow is saying that he doesn't think he can cut the straight overflow i posted because he doesn't have the proper tools. he said he can do the fencing accurately, but not a straight long cut. a 12 x 24 piece of 1/4" black acrylic is only $11, so i might go ahead and just make some boxes myself with a table saw. i wouldn't be able to make the corner legs to put them up against the top brace, but i think i could go ahead and try installing them using a spacer with the same effect. if i did that i would go ahead an make them 24" long since the piece is that length. if i make them 4" deep, that should make 64" of total overflow area. if you can figure up the height of the water based on that, awesome!

maybe i should just go ahead and feed a single or pair of 3" skimmers with a pump. i was thinking about that some more. if something does get over the overflow (fish, algae, etc), it would be able to end up in the sump rather than blocking flow to the skimmers.
 
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