220 Inwall - Plan

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I pulled off the move. Took me 7 hours - about twice as long as I planned. The good news is that I didnt lose any livestock, except a featherduster. I tried to account for as many snails and crabs as I could.

Bas news is that I think I cracked my display (75g) that I'm planning to use as a sump in my new setup.
 
You might be able to salvage the 75g, how bad is the damage?

My thoughts:

1. Drill the damn tank!!
2. Use an external pump for the return
3. 1000 on T5's?? Go grab 2-3 250-400w MH.
if your low on funds, build them yourself or just get 2 since you want softies anyway. And if you ever decide to go sps or something you wont have to ditch your t5's and regret putting money into them.
4. maybe use a smaller tank for the sump/skimmer and use the 75g for a fuge.
 
Hey there. Sorry. We've been so busy moving in. I'll take some pics of my current situation tomorrow and post em.

qwuintus - hey, good points. i gotta get to bed and will get back on this tomorrow!

thanks
BH
 
Man, sorry for the lack of updates - actually, didnt think anyone was taggin along anymore.

Here's where I am:

- I think I have the plans finalized for the new system, for the most part. Need to have my contractor come over and spec some things out based on the latest plans above.

- my fish are still sitting in my 20g glass tank b/c I havent had a chance to fully test the 75 to see if its really leaking. hopefully i can do this tonight.

- a new house, a birthday for my wife, and an anniversary have thrown me off for a bit. but I gotta get these fish out of the 20g.

- i'm planning, if/when I get the 75g up and running, to run it barebottom and also to scrub the LR clean and rinse any lose detritus from it. is this a bad idea? might cause a mini-cycle?


qwuintus, some feedback...

You might be able to salvage the 75g, how bad is the damage?
- not sure yet. i am hoping to salvage and maybe there is no leak at all.


My thoughts:

1. Drill the damn tank!!

- never done this and dont know a place to get it done. but, ok, maybe i should.

2. Use an external pump for the return
- why? thought about this and really the main benefit is to save on heat output in the water? my insump Mag18 has been doing the job fine so far. and i dont need super flow since i'm going to have TUnze Streams in the tank. Have decided against a closed loop. So why else should I go external?

1000 on T5's?? Go grab 2-3 250-400w MH.
if your low on funds, build them yourself or just get 2 since you want softies anyway. And if you ever decide to go sps or something you wont have to ditch your t5's and regret putting money into them.

- this was my biggest decision. primarily i decided against the MH b/c of the incredible heat output compared to T5s and also the maintenance costs. I played it out over the next two years and its more than double the maintenance cost of replacing the bulbs and also the electricity. i know i lose the flexibility on what i can keep in the long run, but that was the only minus to getting the T5s.


maybe use a smaller tank for the sump/skimmer and use the 75g for a fuge.
- good point. i can surely do that. my main reason for using the 75g was to give me plenty of room for overflow in case of problems and also to help eliminate the microbubbles even more. i currently have a 20g sump and, even with 3 baffles, still have a good amount of microbubbles. Hoping the 75 will give me more room to diffuse. I WAS thinking of also partitioning off the 75 sump to include the fuge right in it. BUT, I'm still open to anything and everything!
 
Ok, sorry no pics for so long. This should hold you over for a bit.

First, some pics of my current, temporary-temporary setup. I have all my livestock, for the past week+ in a 20 gallong sump b/c, as you'll see from above, I thought my 75 gall sprung a leak while moving it.

Here's my temp-temp setup:



39765TankBasemen1.jpg


You can see the sump to the left and straight ahead is the 55g tub with the test of the LR, Water, and Fuge

39765TankBasemen4.jpg


Closeups

Tank:

39765TankBasemen2.jpg


Tub:

39765TankBasemen3.jpg




Now, today, I've finally gotten around to testing the leak in the 75. I originally filled it up only a few inches (b/c thats where we noticed the water dripping before).

Nothing happend then so the next step was to fill it up completely to see if there was any water leakage.....and NOTHING!

See pics below of the fillup:


My wife had lots of questions about this...



39765TankFilling2.jpg


Half full (or half empty. depends on how you see things)

39765TankFilling.jpg


Still, no leak!

Finally, full:

39765TankFull1.jpg




Nothing. Its been out there for about an hour or two and not sign of water. I'm going to let it sit for awhile just ot be sure.

But, I'm going with the conclusion that it was just excess water sitting in the framing along the bottom of the tank. Right?? :rolleyes:
 
Update

Update

Sorry there's not been much to update recently. The basement contractor is starting in 11 days (T-11) so I'm still stuck in FULL PLANNING MODE.

So, all I have is more plans and ideas. It might be overkill but the planning is so much fun and I'd really like to get as much more input from everyone as I can, BEFORE I start building this monster.

So, as usual, any feedback...bring it on!



I'm going to post my latest detailed plans:

First, a pic of the part of the basement that will be my fishroom:

39765Tankroom6.jpg


Now, a step by step visual of the build out process (this is uploaded to powerpoint so I can give my contractor an actual "Slideshow" when we have our pre-meeting next week).

Same shot as above, in grahpics mode:

39765tankslide1.jpg


Now, 2 walls will be added to make an 8x10 "Fishroom"

39765tankslide2.jpg


Next:
1) Cutout in wall for tank (I'm going to add some space above the tank for access in the front)

2) 3 dedicated lines (2 15Amp, 1 20amp) for the equipment

3) Hot and cold water lines to be run for the sink

4) PVC out for the pump in the sink

5) Exhaust tube to be run for climate and humidity control

39765tankslide3.jpg


Next, add:

1) Stand for tank

2) Sink

3) RODI system

39765tankslide4.jpg



Add the tank:

39765tankslide5.jpg


And finally, some sort of work table along with back - need to keep it narrow b/c I want as much space to work with as possible. Will probably keep my QT tank on here.

39765tankslide6.jpg


Thoughts? get 'em in now before its too late :D
 
bheron,
Excellent planning and design so far. The Powerpoint presentation is a great idea for exchange of design ideas. A few initial comments I have...

If you can, I'd recommend (also) having the tank drilled and making it reef-ready. I prefer the simplicity of this design and the ease and piece of mind that comes with it. I guarantee your inhabitants wants will change over time and you will require more water movement for filtration needs. But, if you are comfortable with your current system, by all means, continue with it. I just feel that while you have the opportunity with your new tank, it would be wise to convert now. Be sure to check with the tank manufacturer as to whether the glass is tempered or not should you decide to have it drilled. Local glass shops should be capable of doing the drilling but most will no guarantee the work due to the possibility of breakage.

I'd also recommend going with an external pump for circulation. The advantages include less heat transfer as well as possibly more efficient power usage. This also provides the ability to move more water if desired.

Not sure if it was explained in enough depth or not yet but the need to get fresh air (oxygen) into your tank room is very important. Running a fresh air source, especially to the skimmer as previously suggested, will aid in a more stable tank PH. The skimmer is a direct injector and thus, benefits the tank most when fed with fresh air. CO2 buildup within the room will drive the PH down quite easily. In my dedicated tank room, opening the room's window can increase the tank PH substantially. In addition, if you incorporate an exhaust fan, be sure to consider where the replacement air will come from. New homes are typically much better insulated and "air tight".

As to the flush front glass pane to wall interface, I wouldn't suggest using drywall mud to fill the gap. It will crack in time with natural movement of the home and as the tank settles. You may want to consider using some very exact measurements and trim out the inside area of the opening with some hardwood to give you a hard surface. Running the sheet-rock edge up to the tank is not a good idea in regards to strength as well as moisture penetration. With the wood surface next to the tank and with tight tolerances, a simple bead of silicone would fill the thin gap for a finished look. Personally, I like the picture frame look, though. ;)

Looking forward to seeing your progress. You've got a great start going already. :thumbsup:

Joseph
 
Trust me, Weatherson knows what he's talking about! If you havent seen his tank thread, you should! :eek1:

I've personally stolen a LOT of his ideas, the most recent of which is the way he does closed loop. I'm pulling water from each side and then the returns add water into the opposite sides. Rather ingenious way to get tank water mixed well.

Thanks Weatherson! I'll be stealing even more of your ideas soon! :D
 
On trimming around the tank here are my plans.. since the drywall is 1/2" thicker than the wall and you cannot make that flush I will do something like Weatherson said. I will trim the tank out setting the trim on the drywall this will leave a 1/2" gab between the glass and the trim. in that gab I will cut a piece of 1/2 x 3/4 pine trim (They have this at Lowes and Home Depot) to slide in that gab. It will fit flush against the trim and the glass. This piece should not be noticeable at all.

HTH
 
weatherson:
If you can, I'd recommend (also) having the tank drilled and making it reef-ready. I prefer the simplicity of this design and the ease and piece of mind that comes with it. I guarantee your inhabitants wants will change over time and you will require more water movement for filtration needs.


- interesting. i havent given this much thought but I definitely see your point: doing it now will make it so much easier in the future if the need arises. in trying to keep my plan simple i may be overlooking opportunities for flexibility. here's what I have thought on this: the tank I'm buying from my LFS is a perfecto 220 gal (72x24x30) and costs $704.99. Amazing! I simply wanted a glass box to work with. Last time I was there I did see several reef ready tanks, that simply meant they were drilled with 4 holes in the bottom of the tank. also had options for overflow boxes to put in. the drilled tank runs $946.99. So I opted against that initially. however, b/c i havent purchased the tank (maybe this week) I'm still open to it. Essentially another $250 for future flexibility. Hmmm, will have to think about it now. (also, I havent heard anything bad about perfecto's per say. Any opinion?)

I'd also recommend going with an external pump for circulation. The advantages include less heat transfer as well as possibly more efficient power usage. This also provides the ability to move more water if desired.

- I would def be up for this. But I dont know much at all about them which makes them a bit intimidating. i know there are so many diff types and wouldnt even know where to start. if i had to take a shot, i'd say the iwaki's are one of the more popular? with the 2 tunze streams in the tank i'll have a good amount of flow, so i just need to get water from the sump back up to the tank. what kind of pump would you recommend here? also, again, it will provide me with more flexibility but defeats the idea of simplicity as I'll have to drill my sump to install it?

Not sure if it was explained in enough depth or not yet but the need to get fresh air (oxygen) into your tank room is very important.

- i can't beleive how little i've heard about this with all of the time and reading spent. this should maybe be a seperate thread sometime b/c it sounds like there's alot to learn here. with that said, i do have plans for some kind of exhaust system. i've seen many on here and am going to discuss the best approach with my contractor. i am so fortunate to have you all to help with this b/c this is something that would be much harder to do once the room is built out. right now, it seems very easy as my basement is a walkout and i'll probably have many options here. thank you!!

As to the flush front glass pane to wall interface, I wouldn't suggest using drywall mud to fill the gap. It will crack in time with natural movement of the home and as the tank settles. You may want to consider using some very exact measurements and trim out the inside area of the opening with some hardwood to give you a hard surface. Running the sheet-rock edge up to the tank is not a good idea in regards to strength as well as moisture penetration. With the wood surface next to the tank and with tight tolerances, a simple bead of silicone would fill the thin gap for a finished look. Personally, I like the picture frame look, though.

- great. this one's going in "The File". completely agree and will take that approach.

- weatherson, i really appreciate your input and time here. i'm honored, actually :D
~~~~~~~~~
jarhead:
Trust me, Weatherson knows what he's talking about! If you havent seen his tank thread, you should!


- I am proud to say that I have indeed read the thread. in fact, i spent a good deal of the past few weeks reading every single post of that monster. it was up to 115 pages when i started and was at 119 when i finished. i figured i couldnt ask for help unless i read his thread, i mean, book.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lon-
On trimming around the tank here are my plans.. since the drywall is 1/2" thicker than the wall and you cannot make that flush I will do something like Weatherson said. I will trim the tank out setting the trim on the drywall this will leave a 1/2" gab between the glass and the trim. in that gab I will cut a piece of 1/2 x 3/4 pine trim (They have this at Lowes and Home Depot) to slide in that gab. It will fit flush against the trim and the glass. This piece should not be noticeable at all.


- Hey Lon, thanks for the input. I'm a little confused, do you have any pics of what you did here? maybe its on your thread. i'll check. thanks.

- thanks to all for the input. like i said, i need to get the tank this week. am trying to meet with the contractor this week as well since he's starting one week from today.

- another topic came up in another thread that I was hoping to get some input on: I have about 100lbs of live rock in my temporary setup that i will be using in the new tank, in addition to some base rock I'm going to buy for added flitration. my question is around the current live rock and something called "cooking" that i've read. i have this rock but i dont think its "clean" for a new tank. first of all, i had some read algae outbreaks before I took down the previsou tank. this, i'm assuming, is still present in the LR. second, when i oringially started the last tank with this rock, i cured the rock right in the tank to start the cycle. one mistake i made back then was that i did a very, very poor job of scrubbing the rock when it arrived from the supplier. as a result, there was SO much dieoff in the tank that I have this feeling my LR is covered with way too much detritus. i want to remove this before adding to my new tank.

Any ideas on a plan to clean and transfer the rock to the new tank? What's this "cooking" idea?

Thanks!
Bryan
 
Bryan,

I used a 60-gal acrylic tank for my sump. It's working beautifully and a $7.00 hole saw purchased from Lowes is all it took to drill it for the bulkheads. I bought a piece of clear plexi (About $39) from HD and cut it to make my baffles.

I highly recommend the drilling idea. I have my back drilled for a closed loop and the bottom drilled for my single center overflow. I dont want any machinery in the tank because I want it to look uncluttered and you and I both know how suction cups fail and leave you with a huge sandstorm when the powerhead falls to the bottom. :D

Another reason to drill the tank for an overflow is the FACT that overflow siphon tubes WILL fail. I just found a huge bubble in mine last night at 1:00am. I caught it JUST IN TIME before the siphon totally failed and the tank overflowed. I'll be able to sleep at night with the 180 drilled.

As far as external pumps go, I just learned a valuable lesson yesterday. I fired up my return pump, a GenX PCX-40, and it was WAY TOO LOUD!!! :eek1: I'm buying a Pan World pump today to replace it. Only 90watts and supposedly quieter than an Iwaki. Even my two closed loop pumps are quiet, an Iwaki MD30 RXT and a Little Giant 4MDQ-SC. I chose them for the price (a BAD idea) but lucked out with the Iwaki. The Little Giant could be a little quieter I guess. I still have another Little Giant 4MDQX-SC for my Beckett skimmer. I hope it's not too loud.
 
jarhead
"I used a 60-gal acrylic tank for my sump. It's working beautifully and a $7.00 hole saw purchased from Lowes is all it took to drill it for the bulkheads. I bought a piece of clear plexi (About $39) from HD and cut it to make my baffles. "


- I'm planning on using my 75 gal glass as my sump. I'd have to purchase another tank to do this. my 75 is AGA so i'd have to contact them to find out if it can be drilled. they're great to work with ive found.

"I highly recommend the drilling idea. I have my back drilled for a closed loop and the bottom drilled for my single center overflow. I dont want any machinery in the tank because I want it to look uncluttered and you and I both know how suction cups fail and leave you with a huge sandstorm when the powerhead falls to the bottom."

- yep, i hear ya on the suction cup thing. drives me NUTS! am def not going to do a closed loop and am going to be fine with the two powerheads in there.

"Another reason to drill the tank for an overflow is the FACT that overflow siphon tubes WILL fail. I just found a huge bubble in mine last night at 1:00am. I caught it JUST IN TIME before the siphon totally failed and the tank overflowed. I'll be able to sleep at night with the 180 drilled."

- yea, ive heard this alot. i've been using a HOB for years now and have never had one single problem. i went with a Lifereef for specifically that reason. with that said, the risk is still imminent and staring right at me while i sleep at night! if i'm going to get the drilled tank i will then also go with a built in overflow and abandon the HOB. i've been lucky so far i guess.

"As far as external pumps go, I just learned a valuable lesson yesterday. I fired up my return pump, a GenX PCX-40, and it was WAY TOO LOUD!!! I'm buying a Pan World pump today to replace it. Only 90watts and supposedly quieter than an Iwaki. Even my two closed loop pumps are quiet, an Iwaki MD30 RXT and a Little Giant 4MDQ-SC. I chose them for the price (a BAD idea) but lucked out with the Iwaki. The Little Giant could be a little quieter I guess. I still have another Little Giant 4MDQX-SC for my Beckett skimmer. I hope it's not too loud."

thanks for the feedback. havent heard much about the pan worlds.


- ok, so you all have me start to rethink my choice of myoverflow/sump/return system. If I can A) get a reliable external pump at a good price and B) drill my 75g for the sump, I think I'll spend the extra $250 on a drilled display tank.

any other takers?
 
Hey Bryan,

If you can get the 75 drilled, all the better. If not, you can go with any good reliable submersible pump that will give you the flow you need. You can even use several outputs from the return pump as replacements for the powerheads by splitting up the return into several over-the-back outputs. So, you may be able to get away without drilling the sump at all.

I have a friend who put a 180 into the foyer wall of the house he rebuilt. He's using a huge Rio for his return (I almost choked when I saw it, he's in for trouble in the future!!!) but you may want to look at Quiet One pumps. Never seen one firsthand but they are submersible.
 
bheron said:
- Hey Lon, thanks for the input. I'm a little confused, do you have any pics of what you did here? maybe its on your thread. i'll check. thanks.
Thanks!
Bryan


I have not gotten that far yet. I plan on doing all the Mud and taping all at one time in the basement so I will have the mess 1 time. So I don't have pic's yet, and quite a ways away.

So all I can do is draw it in paint.
10122In-Wall_Tank_Idea1.JPG


Hope this helps some.
 
Jarhead - thanks for the info. Now get back to your setup!

Lonnie, that's a HUGE help! Thanks. I know what you're getting at now.


UPDATE: my contractor called to say he's now 2 weeks behind in his jobs, which means my start date goes from 6/13 to 6/27. Not too bad since it gives me more time to plan!!
 
I posted this a few posts back but I think it got overlooked.

Any ideas:

I have about 100lbs of live rock in my temporary setup that i will be using in the new tank, in addition to some base rock I'm going to buy for added flitration. my question is around the current live rock and something called "cooking" that i've read. i have this rock but i dont think its "clean" for a new tank. first of all, i had some read algae outbreaks before I took down the previsou tank. this, i'm assuming, is still present in the LR. second, when i oringially started the last tank with this rock, i cured the rock right in the tank to start the cycle. one mistake i made back then was that i did a very, very poor job of scrubbing the rock when it arrived from the supplier. as a result, there was SO much dieoff in the tank that I have this feeling my LR is covered with way too much detritus. i want to remove this before adding to my new tank.

Any ideas on a plan to clean and transfer the rock to the new tank? What's this "cooking" idea?
 
bheron said:
Jarhead - thanks for the info. Now get back to your setup!


:lol: :lol: :lol:

As far as the rock "Cooking" goes, I'm not entirely clear whether thats a reefers term referring to curing the rock in tank or not. Seems to me that if your rock was in an active tank that has finished cycling, you should be good to go to add it.
 
I had all my live rock in my 100 gallon sump while setting up the new tank, along with corals and fish. So I could not "cook" the rock. It had some algae on it when moving it to the new tank but with the new setup and all new water it was like a huge water change. with in a week all most all of the algae was gone off the live rock I have had.

I have 240 lbs base rock and 85 lbs live rock 26% live. I went with www.Hirocks.com. I really like the rock and in with in a year I'm hoping it will look like the rest of my live rock now.

I had the base rock and everything in the new tank ready to go then when I was ready to move the sump to the main tank and hook everything up. I hooked up a small power head to move the water from the sump to the display back down to the sump.... A very small Power head (Maxi-Jet 900) I did this over a day or so this is how I acclimated the new water with the sump. then I turned off the small power head, so no water was moving between the new tank and the sump. I then hooked up 2 bigger Power heads in the sump and aimed it at the rock in the sump. I took each piece out of the sump one by one blowing them off getting as much yuck off as possible. Then before turning the sump on to the main tank again I did a water change on the sump. It has been up for almost 4 weeks now and everything is doing great.

How bad is it, and what type of algae do you have? Can you add Macro Algae to the tank to help eat the nutrients that the Micro Algae is eating? This two will help kill of the micro algae Just a thought.


P.S. I'm glad that drawing helps because it hard to explain.
 
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