2300G Cylinder - Preview

No provision has been made for the removal of the aquarium. If at some time either the aquarium leaks or I become unable to maintain the tank, it will become a nice indoor garden!

The idea of building around that beauty makes me cringe, but there is obviously no way to do it otherwise. What will you do to protect the acrylic? Wrap the whole thing in foam or something similar?

rking77573, the aquarium was shipped wrapped in plywood and in a steel frame. I will leave it in both as long as practical.

Elias123... yes you can see it when its done, and I would love to see yours some time.
 
No provision has been made for the removal of the aquarium. If at some time either the aquarium leaks or I become unable to maintain the tank, it will become a nice indoor garden!

There was a 10,000g shark tank in a home around here and the second owner of the home didn't want it so they just filled it with sand...the entire home has been torn down and a new home is in its place now.
 
This is one of the first threads I look for when I log on. I am very interested in following your progress. Thank you for sharing.
 
Thanks MMERITT28!

A couple more pics today... ta da!

CompletedStandWest.jpg


CompletedStandEast.jpg


StandMeasurement.jpg


The stand is a tiny bit over sized (about 7/8") but with the intended facade constraction, this will not be an issue.
 
I have a question for anyone else who has put an acrylic tank on concrete... do you lay anything down between the concrete and the acrylic. My plan is to use neoprene rubber... somewhere between 1/16" and 1/8". I could use a layer of 1/8" marine ply and then the neoprene, or just the marine ply. Any recommendations? :spin2:
 
When 6 of one is not 1/2 a dozen of another!

When 6 of one is not 1/2 a dozen of another!

Heres something for you to ponder...

I had planned on using 2 x 8" home made propeller pumps for primary circulation.
While its certainly not off the table, its a reasonably risky approach (may not move as much water as I expect... may be unreliable).

So, considering alternatives I can go down the boring but well trodden path and use Tunze 6305s
Tunze6305.jpg

Or I can get funky and try out one of these babies:
b-propeye170.jpg

It is a 171mm (6.7") internal diameter German-made ring thruster (used for steering small craft in tight situations). It should be reef safe and would be very versatile.
Here are the benefits:
  1. It is bi-drectional, so I can switch directions to emulate tide
  2. At ~450 RPM, it should consume about 200W and give me 57,000 GPH or 27x flow
  3. From time to time I can crank it up to 1000RPM. This will consume 2,200W and move about 127,000GPH or 60x flow.
  4. While the energy consuption at 1000RPM is excessive, it could be done for 20s every 3 minutes to emulate waves.
  5. If it suits me, I could mount it on a rotator and have it sweep back and forth
  6. It looks way cool

The down side is that it costs the same as 6 x Tunze 6305s... although it will move 20% more water at 30% less power than 6 Tunzes. It has been used before for aquaria in Deutschland, but is relatively unproven. I am unsure that a single point of flow is not worse than 6 points of flow, even if I get a decent gyre flow happening.

What do you recon?
 
Heres something for you to ponder...

I had planned on using 2 x 8" home made propeller pumps for primary circulation.
While its certainly not off the table, its a reasonably risky approach (may not move as much water as I expect... may be unreliable).

So, considering alternatives I can go down the boring but well trodden path and use Tunze 6305s

Hi

IMHO you should stick with the tunze, because that way, you could control the whole thing for currents, tides, etc with the controller.

You should check this thread
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1692183

Although its not as big as your tank, its is acrylic too, so he might know some answers to you doubts regarding the construction.
 
Have you considered closed loops with VFD controlled 220v 3 phase pumps? you can use quite large pumps that move a lot of water when combined with eductors, ramp up and down to emulate ocean currents, electrical consumption ramps up and down as well so average use is low

I'm planning a large tank with this type of setup especially since there are no moving parts exposed to seawater and hence very little maintenance. Exposed propeller pumps need monthly cleaning to maintain their efficiency, in a large tank it can be quite a chore. Eductors are used to mix large oil and paint vats and work well for this application.

Getting back to your question regarding Tunze vs Ring thruster, I'd choose the simpler and less maintenance route: Ring thruster. I also like the idea of ramping it up quite high to kick the detritus from time to time

Do you have a link for that ring thruster?
 
About the pad: Something to consider is that salt water really eats into concrete. I would make damn sure the concrete is encased in a multi-part epoxy like what is used for aircraft hangers. As far as a pad goes, I used styrofoam under mine. But, SW will wick under it as I found out with my "stainless" tables.

Usually, a tank manufacturer with specify how it is to be installed, and how they will warranty it. That's who I would discuss this with.

As far as using the thruster goes, I am a big fan. Is that a Vetus? I haven't seen one made of that material. Some issues to consider are how it will look, and having a single point of failure. What will you do if it craps out on you? Have a spare? With the Tunze, you can position them creatively to keep a "natural" look to the reef, and as needed to deal with dead spots. BUT, the huge problem in a cylinder tank, is dealing with wires. That will be tough.
 
That thruster thingy is very cool!

I think you need to consider your planned aqua scape and the point just made about the potential for dead spots. Certainly, with the ability to reverse flow and create HUGE pulses, dead spots may very well be a dead issue. These are huge volumes of water you are talking about moving here!

Jonathan makes another great point about "what if" the one and only pump fails, that's a valid concern. But, I suppose a couple of small pumps could provide minimal circulation temporarily.

This is a great dilema to be in for sure! :D
 
Thank you for your resposes.

RE: material to go under the tank, I contacted the manufacturer last night and he recommended 1" ply... much easier to slide the tank over than synthetic rubber was his view... I can't argue with that.

RE: circulation, Ellot, your suggestion is sound, but I just can't get past the fact that cetrifugal pumps are optmised more for pressure than flow... lets take an example. If I want to move 30 x 2300G, I need 69,000 GPH. If i were to use 5 out 1 in eductors, this means I need 69,000 / 5 = 13,800 GPH (230 GPM) from the pump at ~20' head pressure to get the eductors to work properly. Looking up a couple of pump curve books, I see that I can get this by using 2 x 1.5HP pumps (2.2kW in total). Using 2 ring thrusters, I can move 40x for 200W. Using a VFD to slow down the motor will save power (e.g. 1/2 speed = 1/8 power) but would also significantly reduce pressure, diminishing the effectiveness of the eductors.

Jonathan, thank for your thought provoking comments. I will probably not cover the whole stand in epoxy, but your comments have promped me to more carefully consider salt water management with respect to the stand (specifically, plumbing will come out of one end of the aquarium only... I will glue on some acrylic to the bottom side of the tank to prevent water from flowing back under the stand. I will then epoxy the immediate area.)

The ring thruster is made by a company called Klingenburg

Brax thanks for your comments too. I have now considered single point of failure.

How about this set-up (2 ring thrusters to go in the holes in the blue acrylic pannel:

Overflow&CirculationElevation.jpg


Overflow&CirculationPlan.jpg


Two ring thrusters tangential to tank wall should cause a flow pattern as per bottom picture. The blue acrylic is purely to guide flow. The square is the overflow box that will host standpipes.

From an aquascape perspective comming straight out from the blue acrylic will be the "reef flat area", so the bottom slot will be hidden.
 
i really like the two thruster idea. you could cycle one on and one off, then when you wanted a big rush of flow turn both on full power. i think that would create a wave like action and be a very good idea. also it would take care of the single pump failure problem.

i'm sorry i cant remember where, i think it was a german board, there was a guy using a large thruster style pump. he installed it in a large pipe mounted verticle with several smaller pipes coming off at various angles. this piping became his frame work for his liverock aquascape. i think you could do something similar.

i'll look for that thread and let you know if i find it.

i love seeing your progress- looking great!!!
 
RE: circulation, Ellot, your suggestion is sound, but I just can't get past the fact that cetrifugal pumps are optmised more for pressure than flow... lets take an example. If I want to move 30 x 2300G, I need 69,000 GPH. If i were to use 5 out 1 in eductors, this means I need 69,000 / 5 = 13,800 GPH (230 GPM) from the pump at ~20' head pressure to get the eductors to work properly. Looking up a couple of pump curve books, I see that I can get this by using 2 x 1.5HP pumps (2.2kW in total). Using 2 ring thrusters, I can move 40x for 200W. Using a VFD to slow down the motor will save power (e.g. 1/2 speed = 1/8 power) but would also significantly reduce pressure, diminishing the effectiveness of the educators.

If flow were constant I would agree, however to mimic ocean currents the flow ramps up and down. The peak flow through at maximum output would be optimal for eductors, when ramped down and paused would be equivalent to an open ended pipe, but who cares when little or no flow is required at that point? Cost and maintenance I would think are substantially less then ring thrusters or Tunzes IMO :D

I am nevertheless intrigued by that ring thruster, what do they cost?

Your project is coming to life! Seeing that house and the tank starting to take shape is almost overwhelming! Fantastic! :thumbsup:
 
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