280+ Gallon Shark Tank

[skinsncanes]

Greetings! I have been reading the forum for months and finally decided it was time to get a few last questions answers before starting my build.

My plan is to have a minimum 280 gallon wide tank. The tank is being built around having two coral cat sharks. Possibly an eel or ray as well. Eventually maybe a few supporting tank mates if I can support the load. Initially though I will only get the two sharks.

The tank is being built in my basement. I have a room dedicated to the 'back' of the tank.

Here are my current questions:

Protein skimmer: I read two opposite answers on this. From any aquarium store I have called they all say I definitely dont need a skimmer for a fish only tank with a few sharks. Forums tend to say that sharks eat violently and you need the skimmer to keep it clean. My thought was the waste from eating would be large and caught in the socks or live rock and not the protein skimmer.

Sump setup: I have the ability to put mostly anything in the tank room. I can build a sink, plumb a drain, etc. Im trying to find similar builds to model off of and 'future proof' the tank.

Laundry sink: Has anyone tried using a series of laundry sinks as sumps? My thought was if I put three of them in a row, I could fill one with live rock, have another for the protein skimmer and one for sumps. I could even use the first one as a way to do water changes, plumb in the drain to empty water and have fresh water added to the last sink with the sumps.

I want to have a large portion of my live rock in the sumps. I want to give the sharks plenty of room in the main tank to swim.

The current tank I was planning on ordering is 72L x 36W x 24T. I could get a longer tank, up to 86. The tank will be built into a corner and nothing past 72 will be viewable. However I can make it longer and hide the overflows on that side.

Any comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated but please save the 'dont get a shark' or '300 is cruel for a cat shark' comments for another thread.

 

[skinsncanes]

Here are two models my friend created while designing the bar. It shows the 72x36x24 tank built in. The fish room is also the beer room and houses my 12 kegs of home brew

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=9079&pictureid=62805

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=9079&pictureid=62804

 

[skinsncanes]

sorry still learning how to post pics on this forum

 

[skinsncanes]

This isnt quite related to this thread but Im building this tank around my passion for brewing beer, and traveling the world to scuba dive with sharks. This logo is a work in progress but I call my home brewery "Shark Tank Brewing". My friends think its just because of my scuba diving but wait till they see the tank

Also, I made a slogan. You know how zoos say 'bred in captivity, released to the wild", its a plan on words with that. I have a few different versions of it.

 

[vair]

You won't get many replies if you don't want to hear the truth on size.
For sure a skimmer on predictor tanks is a huge advantage on water quality expessally if the tank is ridiculously under sized for its load.

 

[skinsncanes]

I havent read anywhere that 300 gallons isnt enough for a coral cat shark. Am I missing something?

 

[vair]

Well I'm not an expert on the shark but I've had many predator tanks.
Quick search: http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+41+290&pcatid=290

Min. Tank size they say is 180g, remember there in the business to sell fish.
They grow to three and a half feet! Lfs has had them in a massive display that they out grew. You want two and / or a eel or ray, IMO no where close to enough room.

 

[skinsncanes]

Thats a different species of shark then what I wrote. Heres a link to the species I'm referring too. And no offense man but thats why I said save the 'its not big enough' comments. People just see shark and write that without actually knowing.

https://www.bluezooaquatics.com/productDetail.asp?did=1&pid=251&cid=36

I'm more looking for feedback on the best way to design my fish room for sumps, sinks, etc to make sure I future proof the tank enough.

 

[BlakeyBoyR]

The shark will potentially get to 2'. That means in order for it to turn around comfortably you're looking at 4' wide. I'd imagine length wise anything less than 3x its body length would be incredibly cramped, which means we're talking 6'x4'x2' to be fair to the animal.

 

[alprazo]

For a pair of coral cats, 300 should be enough. I personally recommend shying away from mixing elasmobranches and teleosts. You are asking for problems, especially in a small setup.

As for water quality - I highly recommend a large and efficient skimmer unless you plan on siphoning feces and doing very frequent water changes. The cats are pretty efficient at eating all of the food, but produce a lot of waste - having a primitive GI tract. They vomit indigestibles, have a short intestine and lack a colon.

You can see in the tank I'm setting up, that I have taken several measures to remove waste. The current skimmer is only rated up to 1000 gal and the tank is 2800 gals. I have a RK2 25PE that I plan to modify or may add a second cone.

The protein skimmer also acts as a degassing chamber.

Also, liverock can only be considered decor in the shark system. The filtration is inadequate. The bead filters are great choice. Great at biofiltration, water clarification, and making water changes. The amount of sludge they pull out is truly amazing. For your size aquarium the Ultima II 1000 is a great choice. I feed ~ 3 lbs of food at a time and though I run two beads on my current 900 system - there is never a spike in ammonia. There is also no need for a sump and you can plumb the skimmer after the bead and avoid a second feed pump.

 

[vair]

I'd look at Rubbermaid containers over laundry sinks just for the cost savings alone.
Good luck with your build.

 

[dave.m]

The protein skimmer is for removing dissolved proteinaceous matter, not the large junks. For those you'd use the filter socks as you said. Keeping the water clean is for the sharks' health.

For sumps, you would do better to use a series of Rubber Maid horse troughs than to use laundry sinks; much sturdier and have appropriate holes for fitting bulkheads and piping.

Shark tanks get a general look of consternation here, as you are no doubt starting to get the drift of. We tend to be in favour of not only keeping the animals alive, but of providing environments where the animals actually thrive. What you are proposing, as have so many eager would-be shark keepers before you, is a mere holding pen that will barely keep the animals alive.

Cat sharks, eels and rays live for YEARS, not just a few months. If we were to lock you into a broom closet for years what sort of quality of life would that be for you? Try and use the same perspective and think in terms of providing an optimum environment for the creatures you are bringing into your home against their will.

Dave.M

 

[alprazo]

Shark tanks get a general look of consternation here

Unfortunately - RC doesn't have a forum for elasmobranch husbandry where those with experience often frequent. I have tried this forum in the past and can attest to the above quote.

Cat sharks, eels and rays live for YEARS, not just a few months.

Like most fish, Angels ~ 15, Triggers ~20, surgeonfish ~20, the coral cats life expectancy is similar ~20 year and lasts longer than the interests of most hobbyist. In theory the life expectancy should be extended in captivity.

If we were to lock you into a broom closet for years what sort of quality of life would that be for you? Try and use the same perspective and think in terms of providing an optimum environment for the creatures you are bringing into your home against their will.

Unlike many "reef" fish, this shark is benthic and infrequently swims, has a small daily range, and I'm not sure about this one, but many similar species even return to the same place to sleep. With the exception of clownfish, damsels and a few others, I would argue that the cruelty inferred above is equally relevant to fish in the home reef tank. Maybe a screen saver is the way to go for some.

 

[skinsncanes]

Unfortunately - RC doesn't have a forum for elasmobranch husbandry where those with experience often frequent. I have tried this forum in the past and can attest to the above quote.



Like most fish, Angels ~ 15, Triggers ~20, surgeonfish ~20, the coral cats life expectancy is similar ~20 year and lasts longer than the interests of most hobbyist. In theory the life expectancy should be extended in captivity.



Unlike many "reef" fish, this shark is benthic and infrequently swims, has a small daily range, and I'm not sure about this one, but many similar species even return to the same place to sleep. With the exception of clownfish, damsels and a few others, I would argue that the cruelty inferred above is equally relevant to fish in the home reef tank. Maybe a screen saver is the way to go for some.

Thanks for the response. Is it right to ask if theres a better forum to get feedback? I'm assuming there are a wealth of knowledgeable people on this forum. And my main questions are in regards to properly setting up my sump and the 'fish tank' room I have before I cover up the walls and can't change the plumbing.

Ive done my research on the sharks. As you said, they are benthic. They don't need four feet to turn around. Im caging an animal, I get it. My back yard is fenced in too, only about 1/2 acre of so in the fenced in area for my huskies that normally run hundreds of miles...they seem happy enough.

 

[skinsncanes]

The protein skimmer is for removing dissolved proteinaceous matter, not the large junks. For those you'd use the filter socks as you said. Keeping the water clean is for the sharks' health.

For sumps, you would do better to use a series of Rubber Maid horse troughs than to use laundry sinks; much sturdier and have appropriate holes for fitting bulkheads and piping.

Shark tanks get a general look of consternation here, as you are no doubt starting to get the drift of. We tend to be in favour of not only keeping the animals alive, but of providing environments where the animals actually thrive. What you are proposing, as have so many eager would-be shark keepers before you, is a mere holding pen that will barely keep the animals alive.

Cat sharks, eels and rays live for YEARS, not just a few months. If we were to lock you into a broom closet for years what sort of quality of life would that be for you? Try and use the same perspective and think in terms of providing an optimum environment for the creatures you are bringing into your home against their will.

Dave.M

Thanks for the feed back. Any links to how people plumbed together multiple troughs to optimize space? Im trying to research now if I want a protein skimmer in the sump or external. I'm also debating starting with no protein skimmer. I can't get answers from people that have a fish only/shark tank on how it works with just a lot of live rock and sand and traditional filters.

 

[skinsncanes]

For a pair of coral cats, 300 should be enough. I personally recommend shying away from mixing elasmobranches and teleosts. You are asking for problems, especially in a small setup.

As for water quality - I highly recommend a large and efficient skimmer unless you plan on siphoning feces and doing very frequent water changes. The cats are pretty efficient at eating all of the food, but produce a lot of waste - having a primitive GI tract. They vomit indigestibles, have a short intestine and lack a colon.

You can see in the tank I'm setting up, that I have taken several measures to remove waste. The current skimmer is only rated up to 1000 gal and the tank is 2800 gals. I have a RK2 25PE that I plan to modify or may add a second cone.

The protein skimmer also acts as a degassing chamber.

Also, liverock can only be considered decor in the shark system. The filtration is inadequate. The bead filters are great choice. Great at biofiltration, water clarification, and making water changes. The amount of sludge they pull out is truly amazing. For your size aquarium the Ultima II 1000 is a great choice. I feed ~ 3 lbs of food at a time and though I run two beads on my current 900 system - there is never a spike in ammonia. There is also no need for a sump and you can plumb the skimmer after the bead and avoid a second feed pump.

what falls under teleosts? the snow flake eel?

I have to research bead filters I don't know what that is. Thanks for a specific model reference to check. Im surprised to hear the live rock doesn't help with filtration with the sharks. I was going to try and get a large amount, like 200 for the sump and maybe another 100 in the display in an arch or other shape that allows generic hiding but mostly leaves tank free to swim.

I appreciate the info about the sharks digestion. that is the type of specifics I was looking for!!

 

[dave.m]

I would go with the skimmer in the sump simply because skimmers tend to overflow when you're not around (how do they know?).

You don't necessarily need more than one sump. It really depends on what you are doing in the sump(s). You can do more than one thing in a 300 gal horse trough.

If you are not sure what it is you are trying to accomplish I suggest you hold off finishing anything for as long as possible. Get things up and running and see how it goes for 6-8 months. Once you have more experience with running the tank you will be in a better position to determine what works best for you and you can then proceed with a better idea of where you are trying to get to.

Dave.M

 

[skinsncanes]

http://www.aquaultraviolet.com/products/filters/ultima2/1000

So I was looking at this, as suggested. I hadn't seen this type of filter before. Is it essentially replicating the live rock but in a way that allows for a larger amount of surface area of the bacteria to grow? Its not cheap but if it replaces live rock its basically a wash in cost, or even cheaper.

 

[skinsncanes]

I would go with the skimmer in the sump simply because skimmers tend to overflow when you're not around (how do they know?).

You don't necessarily need more than one sump. It really depends on what you are doing in the sump(s). You can do more than one thing in a 300 gal horse trough.

If you are not sure what it is you are trying to accomplish I suggest you hold off finishing anything for as long as possible. Get things up and running and see how it goes for 6-8 months. Once you have more experience with running the tank you will be in a better position to determine what works best for you and you can then proceed with a better idea of where you are trying to get to.

Dave.M

Fortunately, the room that the back of the tank will be in has the houses main plumbing drain, and both the hot and cold water line in it. So added plumbing at any point will be possible. I'm just trying to find a good way to have adequate filtration and to minimize maintenance. Meaning Id rather do some extra work and research now to find implement ways to make water changes simpler, or to ensure tank stays cleaner and chemicals more in balance.

 

[skinsncanes]

http://www.aquaultraviolet.com/products/filters/ultima2/1000

So I was looking at this, as suggested. I hadn't seen this type of filter before. Is it essentially replicating the live rock but in a way that allows for a larger amount of surface area of the bacteria to grow? Its not cheap but if it replaces live rock its basically a wash in cost, or even cheaper.

It says the ultima is only for high flow rates. Would I want or need that much flow for a 300 gallon tank? Id rather not run a large 3/4 hp pump 24/7 if I don't have too it seems like an expensive monthly cost. I honestly haven't research the flow rates I need yet to know whats considered high or low.