400g system from scratch pictorial
- Thread starter pclausen
- Start date
Funny, I am serious though....A local reefer that owns a local nursery has it brought in from the Bahamas. The only difference is that it's unscreened. Many local reefers buy it from him....40lbs. for $6.00.
pclausen
New member
Thanks for the offer Albert, but that is quite a drive from here in Virginia!
The thought did cross my mind about not having a sand bed. But being a complete newbie at this, I think going with a sand bed for "round one" will be safer. IMO, the tank just doesn't look right without a sand bed. I have a couple of leads that I'm pursuing right now. Hopefully something will pan out.
In other news, I'm thinking of making a new CL manifold that will be 1.5" instead of the current 1" one for several reasons;
1. I'm getting a lot of pressure loss at the 1.5" to 1" reduction just in front of the manifold. I do have decent flow out of the nozzles, but no where near the 5500 gph @ 4' head that the Hammerhead is capable off.
2. The reduction is creating quite a bit of noise, so keeping the return line @ 1.5" everywhere will eliminate this bottle neck. I don't really notice any micro bubbles in the tank, but I can't think of why else I would have this noise. It wasn't there before I added salt to the water.
3. I want the Tee's that the Loc-lines screw into pointing down towards the water surface at a 45 degree angle instead of parallel to the surface as they currently do. This will give me a lot more flexibility in directing the flow from the individual nozzles with adding more sections.
The thought did cross my mind about not having a sand bed. But being a complete newbie at this, I think going with a sand bed for "round one" will be safer. IMO, the tank just doesn't look right without a sand bed. I have a couple of leads that I'm pursuing right now. Hopefully something will pan out.
In other news, I'm thinking of making a new CL manifold that will be 1.5" instead of the current 1" one for several reasons;
1. I'm getting a lot of pressure loss at the 1.5" to 1" reduction just in front of the manifold. I do have decent flow out of the nozzles, but no where near the 5500 gph @ 4' head that the Hammerhead is capable off.
2. The reduction is creating quite a bit of noise, so keeping the return line @ 1.5" everywhere will eliminate this bottle neck. I don't really notice any micro bubbles in the tank, but I can't think of why else I would have this noise. It wasn't there before I added salt to the water.
3. I want the Tee's that the Loc-lines screw into pointing down towards the water surface at a 45 degree angle instead of parallel to the surface as they currently do. This will give me a lot more flexibility in directing the flow from the individual nozzles with adding more sections.
Beverly
New member
pclausen,
Please don't introduce damsels into your system unless you're going to keep them over the long term. They are rather nasty and territorial fish. BTW, what fish were you hoping to stock your your tank with?
"The thought did cross my mind about not having a sand bed. But being a complete newbie at this, I think going with a sand bed for "round one" will be safer. IMO, the tank just doesn't look right without a sand bed."
I don't see how going with a sandbed would be safer than going without. That may be because I have had numerous sandbeds in numerous tanks over the years, and by far, having 3 one year old BB reefs, I could never go back.
I truly balked at the thought of not having sand in my tanks when I upgraded last year. How barren they were going to look, I lamented. But that is simply not the case anymore. With fish, corals, lovely coralline on my rock, there is so much in each tank to see that I don't miss the look of sand. When I now think of sand, I only see the filthy sandbeds we removed last year and thank my lucky stars that I did more reading on BB tanks.
Going BB saved money too
Please don't introduce damsels into your system unless you're going to keep them over the long term. They are rather nasty and territorial fish. BTW, what fish were you hoping to stock your your tank with?
"The thought did cross my mind about not having a sand bed. But being a complete newbie at this, I think going with a sand bed for "round one" will be safer. IMO, the tank just doesn't look right without a sand bed."
I don't see how going with a sandbed would be safer than going without. That may be because I have had numerous sandbeds in numerous tanks over the years, and by far, having 3 one year old BB reefs, I could never go back.
I truly balked at the thought of not having sand in my tanks when I upgraded last year. How barren they were going to look, I lamented. But that is simply not the case anymore. With fish, corals, lovely coralline on my rock, there is so much in each tank to see that I don't miss the look of sand. When I now think of sand, I only see the filthy sandbeds we removed last year and thank my lucky stars that I did more reading on BB tanks.
Going BB saved money too
Dirty sandbeds just require the appropriate amount of sand movers and detritus feeders, and the one time I have vaacumed my sandbed I lost a couple corals, call it coincidence or whatever you want, im convinced it was removing good stuff which was keeping things stable till that point.
This is just MO , does not reflect the views of RC or anyone else, and please use this with your own thoughts and evaluations to make your best decision, but I for one think a reef should have sand, and the other stuff that would be there in a natural reef lol, just will have to figure a way to make the tops of the acros protrude from the water for 3-4 hours a night, and then have a nice surge fill back into and over them, wonder what that would do for them.
Ah well to much to think about for now but I love this stuff and am glad to be hooked, and just hope to learn more and get more without going into financial gloom to do it all lol.
Good luck with your reefs!!!
This is just MO , does not reflect the views of RC or anyone else, and please use this with your own thoughts and evaluations to make your best decision, but I for one think a reef should have sand, and the other stuff that would be there in a natural reef lol, just will have to figure a way to make the tops of the acros protrude from the water for 3-4 hours a night, and then have a nice surge fill back into and over them, wonder what that would do for them.
Ah well to much to think about for now but I love this stuff and am glad to be hooked, and just hope to learn more and get more without going into financial gloom to do it all lol.
Good luck with your reefs!!!
highlands
New member
There are many detractors of sand beds, claiming the tanks will crash because of the sand. I've had bare bottom, 2" to 3" of sand and Deep Sand Beds (6") in more than fifteen different tanks over the past ten years. Most of them have had a plenum under the sand. I have _never_ had a sand bed crash. In January of this year I took down one of the tanks that has been running for about seven years with a 6" deep sand bed and carefully dug all the way to the plenum to examine the layers of sand in one end of that tank. It was very clean. The water in the plenum was not a toxic soup as some would have you believe.
I personally greatly prefer a sand bed both for the fauna in the sand bed adding diversity to the tank, for the nitrogen reduction and for the aesthetics.
I would not reduce at all. If anything I would go a size up from the pump.
Cheers,
-Walter
in Vermont
where it is about to rain
Yee-ha! (We need it!)
pclausen
New member
James, I will go w/ a 4" sandbed in the display. Down the road I might change it, but for now I know that is what I want to do. I have seen a lot of BB tanks here on RC that looks great (including Beverly's), but I just don't think that is for me right now.
My understanding is that having a DSB will help mask beginner's mistakes, such as overfeeding (not that I plan to) and buffer pH somewhat to keep it from fluctuating too much until everything gets dialed in properly.
Beverly, I don't plan to introduce damsels to the display under any circumstances. I was thinking of keeping a couple in the fuge to feed a potential DSB there, but after additional research, I don't know that doing so would make any sense. I'm not convinced that having a sand bed at all in the fuge makes sense. Perhaps just cultivating chaeto and leaving the LR rubble in there is all I need. My understanding is that the pods will thrive in the chaeto.
I don't really have a fish list yet, but I'm thinking something like this:
2 Ocellaris Clowns
1 Hippo Tang
1-2 Yellow Tang
1 Purple Tang
1 Powder Blue Tang (maybe, I hear these are ich magnets)
1 Lawnmower Blenny
1 Mandarin (once the DSB has matured)
And some wrasses (haven't researched which ones yet)
I know that is probably a lot of fish for a 180g, but given my total water volume of 400g, and a skimmer rated for 1200g, I think that should be fine. I'm already thinking of plumbing in a 55g to the system as I'm putting some cichlids out in the pond for the summer this weekend which will free up a tank. I think I'll then trade those cichlids back to the lfs in the fall as I already have another 65g cichlid tank, which I think will be plenty with the maintenance I'll be doing on my 180g and 55g sw tanks.
Walter/Frankie, those are encouraging words in favor of going with a 4"+ sand bed in the display and leaving it alone with is what I hope to be able to do.
Walter, I'm not going to be able to fit a 2" manifold around the upper perimeter of the tank, but based on some measurements I did last night, I should be able to squeeze in a 1.5" to replace the 1" I got now. I did go with 2" on the inlet side until just before the ball valve to the pump input. I think what's killing me right now is the 1.5" to 1" reduction, followed by a tight 1" 90. That's a serious restriction that isn't really going to flow 5500 gph. Getting rid of that bottleneck might quiet the pump down a little as well. The wife is complaining about the noise currently, which is why I'm kinda forced to try something.
Nitrates were undetectable last night, so I'll try testing for ammonia and nitrite again tomorrow, but if they still read 0, I guess I'm done cycling.
My understanding is that having a DSB will help mask beginner's mistakes, such as overfeeding (not that I plan to) and buffer pH somewhat to keep it from fluctuating too much until everything gets dialed in properly.
Beverly, I don't plan to introduce damsels to the display under any circumstances. I was thinking of keeping a couple in the fuge to feed a potential DSB there, but after additional research, I don't know that doing so would make any sense. I'm not convinced that having a sand bed at all in the fuge makes sense. Perhaps just cultivating chaeto and leaving the LR rubble in there is all I need. My understanding is that the pods will thrive in the chaeto.
I don't really have a fish list yet, but I'm thinking something like this:
2 Ocellaris Clowns
1 Hippo Tang
1-2 Yellow Tang
1 Purple Tang
1 Powder Blue Tang (maybe, I hear these are ich magnets)
1 Lawnmower Blenny
1 Mandarin (once the DSB has matured)
And some wrasses (haven't researched which ones yet)
I know that is probably a lot of fish for a 180g, but given my total water volume of 400g, and a skimmer rated for 1200g, I think that should be fine. I'm already thinking of plumbing in a 55g to the system as I'm putting some cichlids out in the pond for the summer this weekend which will free up a tank. I think I'll then trade those cichlids back to the lfs in the fall as I already have another 65g cichlid tank, which I think will be plenty with the maintenance I'll be doing on my 180g and 55g sw tanks.
Walter/Frankie, those are encouraging words in favor of going with a 4"+ sand bed in the display and leaving it alone with is what I hope to be able to do.
Walter, I'm not going to be able to fit a 2" manifold around the upper perimeter of the tank, but based on some measurements I did last night, I should be able to squeeze in a 1.5" to replace the 1" I got now. I did go with 2" on the inlet side until just before the ball valve to the pump input. I think what's killing me right now is the 1.5" to 1" reduction, followed by a tight 1" 90. That's a serious restriction that isn't really going to flow 5500 gph. Getting rid of that bottleneck might quiet the pump down a little as well. The wife is complaining about the noise currently, which is why I'm kinda forced to try something.
Nitrates were undetectable last night, so I'll try testing for ammonia and nitrite again tomorrow, but if they still read 0, I guess I'm done cycling.
scotty1234
New member
Beverly said:
There's a product called Seapods that works to boost your pod population. Here's a link to a vendor who sells them. Definitely look into something like this before you get a mandarin.:
http://www.inverts.com/Merchant2/me...roduct_Code=Seapods_4oz&Category_Code=Live_FD
pclausen
New member
I read up a little on lawnmovers and while they have a great personality (main reason I wanted one in the first place), they tend to get dominated by tangs around feeding time unless special precautions are taken. Some will readily feed on foods other than algae, but others won't. I also read that they, in turn, can make life difficult for some invertebrates. I think I'll hold off on getting a lawnmower for now.
I know the mandarin needs lots of pods, so I'll definitely wait until I have a teaming population before picking up one of those guys. Thanks for the link to the pod booster solution, that looks pretty cool. I'm hoping that I can get a colony going in the fuge and then use sponges to transfer batches of them into the display.
I know the mandarin needs lots of pods, so I'll definitely wait until I have a teaming population before picking up one of those guys. Thanks for the link to the pod booster solution, that looks pretty cool. I'm hoping that I can get a colony going in the fuge and then use sponges to transfer batches of them into the display.
mike89t
Premium Member
pclausen said:
Now that sounds like a good plan. Live Rock in the Fuge with Chaeto. With a fuge as big as yours you might want to put some Gracillaria in there also:
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=1127
Anthony Calfo recommends Chaeto as the best Macro algae for nutrient export. He also recommends Gracilaria. The cool thing about Gracilaria is that you could then feed it to your tangs. You should really consider using both.
Your fish list looks fine. Once you get your fuge up and running it will become a pod producing machine. Then you can add the Mandarin.
pclausen
New member
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind Albert.
This sand business is driving me crazy. Went all around town looking for aragonite and no luck anywhere.
Wal-Mart - Garden Basic brand distributed by Old Castle, but it is silica and not white.
Kmart - Yard Right white play sand
Ace Hardware - Quickrete play sand
Lowes - Quickrete play sand
Farm Co-Op - white play sand from Silica USA
Garden Center - Yard Right white play sand.
I had the owner of the garden center call his Old Castle distributor and according to him there is no more tropical play sand coming. The island they were getting it from isn't working with them any longer. That unfortunately seems to confirm what HD was telling me yesterday about them having problems getting it from their distributor as well.
I spoke to the manager at HD and told him to recall the shipment of the 15 bags that were all busted up when they came in and refused. Maybe that way I'll at least be able to get my hands on a little of this impossible to get sand.
I also talked to a lfs owner that gets the stuff occasionally and he's going to check his source for some. I'm not going down without a fight!
This sand business is driving me crazy. Went all around town looking for aragonite and no luck anywhere.
Wal-Mart - Garden Basic brand distributed by Old Castle, but it is silica and not white.
Kmart - Yard Right white play sand
Ace Hardware - Quickrete play sand
Lowes - Quickrete play sand
Farm Co-Op - white play sand from Silica USA
Garden Center - Yard Right white play sand.
I had the owner of the garden center call his Old Castle distributor and according to him there is no more tropical play sand coming. The island they were getting it from isn't working with them any longer. That unfortunately seems to confirm what HD was telling me yesterday about them having problems getting it from their distributor as well.
I spoke to the manager at HD and told him to recall the shipment of the 15 bags that were all busted up when they came in and refused. Maybe that way I'll at least be able to get my hands on a little of this impossible to get sand.
I also talked to a lfs owner that gets the stuff occasionally and he's going to check his source for some. I'm not going down without a fight!
pclausen
New member
I didn't realize this forum won't let you edit/delete your post after 60 minutes. Strange...
Anyhow, I was going to delete the message above about my sand frustrations as it was off-topic and because I finally located a HD with plenty in stock about 3 hours from here. I'll be making a road trip there tomorrow and get a ton of it (literally)!
Anyhow, I was going to delete the message above about my sand frustrations as it was off-topic and because I finally located a HD with plenty in stock about 3 hours from here. I'll be making a road trip there tomorrow and get a ton of it (literally)!
scotty1234
New member
It's not 3 hours south of there is it?
pclausen
New member
3 hours North in Pennsylvania (which I think is where Old Castle operates out of, so I guess that makes sense they of all places would still have some).
tsquad, that white play sand didn't fizz at all in the vinegar so that to me indicates it isn't aragonite bit rather silicate based. I mean there was no reaction at all.
tsquad, that white play sand didn't fizz at all in the vinegar so that to me indicates it isn't aragonite bit rather silicate based. I mean there was no reaction at all.
