400g system from scratch pictorial

[pclausen]

Thanks for the compliments!

Nick, my 180 will consume around 3500W with everything running, so I would think the 6000/7000W unit would be about right for you. You say you don't want to run anything else, but what about the fridge and well pump if you're not on city water? $1900 sounds like a really good deal and it pretty much comes with everything you need. I would perhaps add another $100-$200 for misc stuff from Home Depot to complete the job. So yes, $3000 total in materials to install the 6000/7000 unit should do it. That budget would even allow you to slip your neighbor a bill or two for his assistance.

I installed mine myself (except the gas line). I'm sure the price would have been more than double if I had someone else install it. Unless you have a lot of experience with electrical work, I would definitely NOT recommend installing one of these yourself. Your neighbor should have no issues installing it for you. It comes with very good instructions. In addition to my own, I also installed one of the newer 15kw units at my parents house. The new ones are very quiet.

I have run mine off regular 100# bottles of LP gas no problem before I permanently installed it. I even ran it for a little while off a BBQ grill bottle. The starter batteries are kept charged by the mains and the generator will "exercise" for about 15 minutes every week automatically to keep everything in working order.

I would not get a unit larger than what you need since that just results in burning more fuel than is necessary during outages. Be sure to use a pressure regulator on the incoming gas line. You do not want to hook up a LP bottle directly to the unit.

 

[nbd13]

THANKS A BUNCH!

how much would lets say a 50# or 100# bottle of LP gas cost? and what is LP gas? i mean what does the LP stand for?

also is this brand a good brand? reputable and all? or should i look around for another brand?

what pressure regulator do you recomend? and about how much?

Also right now my tank has 2 of its own cicuits, i will be adding 1 more next weekend, 2 20A and 1 15A.

anyway do i need a subpannel to hook this thing up?

my neighbor is out of town so thats why i am asking you so many questions.

i mean i think if i remeber both circuits are (piggy-backed" if that means anything? also the 3rd circuit will be piggy-backed too.

anyway so do i need a sub-pannel to install it? or no?

so basically i need the generator unit listed above, a LP gas tank either 50 or 100 pound one. then a pressure regulator. and thats it?

i added up my total watts and its about 5000, BUT i over calculate everything to be on the safe side, and threw in 300 extra watts so its more like 4000 watts. so the smaller one will work!

thanks again! and GREAT setup!

Nick

 

[nbd13]

it looks like you have a sub-pannel, do i need one? if so how much are they?

thanks again!

Nick

 

[merlock116]

that mag drive's o-ring design is just not a good design. It's not housed in a machined groove, and the compressing sides are not flat and smooth. I'd get an eheim if you want the versatility of running it external or submerged. Otherwise, an iwaki 20rlt would work great for your application.

(I've got my mag 2 that came w/ my calcium reactor for mixing salt now)

 

[reefboy1]

pclausen,

Just a word of caution concerning using the ACII Controller. The ACII will "resend" all state commands every 5 minutes. So if you use some other X10 device to change a state of one of the modules, the ACII will put it back into the state it thinks it should be in when the next interval has come up.

Please let me know if you've found a way around this.


Also - cure the live rock in the garage (whether you buy pre-cured or not). You'll be happy you did. Also, when you transfer the rock from the garage to the display don't worry about covering it or anything...

If I were you, I'd actually tape out your display tank dimensions on the garage floor and then stack all the their so you can work on the aquascaping. Much easier than doing it in the tank for the first time. The rock will be fine.


Thanks,

Art

 

[pclausen]

Nick, LP = Liquid Propane. The instructions that come w/ the generator should tell you what the recommended input pressure should be. I picked up my regulator, hose and fittings from the local gas distributor. I think I paid around $50 for everything. I think I paid something like $80 for an empty 100# bottle. Filling it up runs around $50 or so. Generac is a reputable brand that has been around for a long time. I also have a 25kw generator of theirs that I hook up to the PTO of my tractor. Never had a problem with either, nor have my parents with their unit. It comes with a subpanel with 8 or 12 circuits on it. If that is not enough, just bust out a 24 circuit panel or something from Home Depot. They run around $75 I believe.

Merloc, thanks for the low-down on the mag pump design and alternative pumps for my app. My 2nd Mag actually stayed water tight overnight, so perhaps I got decent one for the time being.

Art, very good point about the ACII behavior about resending the states to all devices every 5 minutes. Hmm, sounds like I'll have to use AquaNotes exclusively for manually overriding settings during water changes and other maintenance. I suppose I could put a relay in-line with the ACII X10 interface to take it "off-line" anytime I have a need to manually control a X10 device. Even cheaper would be to just unplug the X10 controller when doing maintenance.

Sounds like I'll have to think some more about how to do my rock curing. I do have a garage conveniently located to the display tank.

 

[nbd13]

Thanks you have been so much help!

i cant wait to see your tank setoup!

Nick

 

[pclausen]

Electrical

Electrical

You're welcome Nick!

I got done installing all the receptacles in the fishroom today. There are a total of 16 outlets. Here is a shot of how to wire a regular duplex outlet to control 2 individual devices. Notice how I cut the bridge between the two hot sockets.

And here is a quad outlet where 3 devices are on one X10 address and the 4th one is on its own:

And finally a shot of the junction box where everything comes together. On the far left, inside the equipment closet, you will notice the 2 20A GFI outlets (the grey ones with the amber light). There is a 3rd 20A circuit below the 2 GFI ones that run the equipment in the racks. I'll use a 20A plugs in each GFI outlet to feed the junction box. If it wasn't for the fact that I wired the 3 20A circuits to the equipment closet years ago, I would have used 20A GFI breakers instead and feed to junction box directly.

Next up will be installing 2 ground bars, 2 neutral bars and 2 hot bars in the junction box and then connect all those wires along with the 11 X10 relays. Here is a link to the X10 relay modules that I'll be using. I have a feeling that junction box will be quite stuffed by the time everything is completed.

http://www.asihome.com/ASIshop/product_info.php?products_id=422

 

[Bax]

This is an incredable project for a first effort.

I have tons of FW experience and went with a 26 for my first SW effort (excluding my effort at the age of 12 which didn't do so well).

You are inspiring my 180 project soon to start. We move into the new house in June.

 

[pclausen]

Good luck w/ the move and new tank Bax!

I had a chance to work a little on the electrical last night. I hung the MH over the fuge. I had a couple of these 250W SE MH units left over from when I built my garage, so I used one of them for this application. I have no idea what the spectrum is on these bulbs, but I'm pretty sure it is less than 10k. I'm wondering if I should run it without the clear plastic shield in place or not?

I also did a little work on the junction box. The ground and neutral connections have been completed. The white plastic terminal bar on the left is one of the 20A circuits, the one on the right is the other. Now I'm just waiting for my X10 relays to show up and I should be able to complete the electrical work. I decided to go with regular X10 wall switches for the RO/DI pump and SW mix pump since I want to easily switch these on and off while working in the fish room. I'm thinking I can use the feed cycle on the ACII to turn everything else off during water changes, skimmer cleaning, etc and then manually control those 2 pumps via the X10 wall switches.

 

[JackRent]

You clearly go great guns with everything, Home Theater and fish tanks. Please post pictures when you start adding livestock !

 

[pclausen]

Here is an update on the progress. The electrical work has been completed. Here is a shot of the panel with all the X10 relays installed (well, I still need to add 2 more for the kalk stirrer, but I don't need those just yet). On the extreme left you see the 2 20A GFI's that feed the box. Here you also see the X10 control module and the ACII transformer. Above the panel are 2 more x10 switches. One controls the RO/DI pump, the other the saltwater mix pump.

Here is a shot from further back showing the pH controller for the calcium reactor as well as the ACII controller. That big grey thing is my 2 subwoofer cabinets.

I went ahead and added a vapor barrier to the ceiling.

And a 180 cfm exhaust fan. The fan has an 8" outlet that I reduced down to 6", then down to 5" so that it would fit through the wall. It will to connected to a dehumidistat. I'll start out at 40% and see how things go. I still have to pull the plastic down and duct tape it to seal those opening into the dropped ceiling.

And here is a shot of my Airpanel from which I remote desktop to the computer running AquaNotes. This made it a lot easier to test all the pumps and lights that are controlled via X10. It was a good thing too as when I fired up the return pump for the first time, there was so much pressure that it popped one of the 90 elbows off the return pipe in one of the overflows, spraying water up the wall in the living room! I even had the bypass valve to the fuge open 50% or more. Those hammerhead pumps kick some serious arse.

I added some electrical tape to the pipe to make the elbow fit tighter. Did the same on the other elbow just in case. Will the electrical tape glue cause an issue with my corals/fish? If so, I guess I'll go ahead and glue them instead, but what about where the pipes fit into the bulkheads in the bottom glass? I don't want them permanently attached there, but I had issues with them popping out as well. My overflows seem to be able to handle well over 600gph each. Maybe its because right after the 1" bulkheads, I immediately go to 2" piping and the gravity really seems to suck the water down. Is there a better way to make the pipes fit the elbows/bulkheads tighter on the 3/4" return pipes without resorting to glue or electrical tape? Teflon tape perhaps?

I also got done with the recirc mod on my ASM G6 skimmer.

I'll be picking up 200# of MI rock next Wednesday, so its about time to start filling the system with RO/DI water and get it heated and begin circulating it and add the salt! I am going to cure the rock in the main tank. But I will have a station setup in the garage to prep/clean/rinse the rock before it goes in the tank. Of course there won't be any sand anywhere in the system until the rock is cured. I have a python both upstarts at the tank and in the fishroom for cleaning out junk daily until the process is done. Spring is here, so I'll be able to leave the windows open to help expel the smell.

 

[scotty1234]

You know for a little bit of money you could get a submersible microphone, patch it in to one of those crown amps through your receiver, and have surround sound for your fish tank, j/k.

 

[Mantis]

Well done so far, way to start small

 

[Bax]

Luv'n your set up!

 

[lawngnome]

holy crap!! this is so cool
all the things are run by computers and your pluming is great
how much is this costing so far
awesome

 

[pclausen]

Thanks for the compliments. As far as the cost of everything, I try not to think about it. :eek1: But I do think I'll come in at quite a bit less than the $8k or so that it is generally said to cost to setup a 180g reef, but I might be dead wrong on that. I already had the tank, stand/canopy and misc small pumps, MH for the fuge, computer, backup generator, some plumbing, some X10 and some electrical. But the skimmer, MH lights for the display, ACII stuff and Sequence pumps added up to a good chunk of change for sure!

 

[Adam]

pclausen,

You MUST glue those connections! Even those that fit very tight will eventually work themselves apart or at very least develop slow leaks.

If you got bulkheads that aren't threaded and have to glue them, it isn't as permanent as it sounds. If you ever have to cut it apart, simply cut the pipe several inches from the bulkhead, and you will have plenty of pipe sticking out of the bulkhead to be able to glue on another fitting.

You can compromise by glueing a threaded adapter into the bulkhead and one on the end of the pipe (one male, one female of course) and threading the connection together.

All of this is true even of drains. Time, water and vibration will loosen connections over time, even those that aren't under pressure.

One last note... Avoid the temptation to use "Fernco" fittings. They are essentially a rubber tube with a hose clamp on each end. They aren't intended to hold pressure and are notorious for slipping free. There are many horror stories of flooded rooms because of these.

Adam

 

[phlipper84]

You must be single! If my wife even imagined that I was thinking of a project like this she would ask the Dr. about a brain transplant! Nice tank!

 

[pclausen]

Thanks for the advice Adam. I'll go ahead and glue the 3/4" returns to the bulkheads inside the Megaflows. Too bad the AGA overflow kit didn't come with threaded bulkheads. I was wondering about the possibility of them popping off again. Guess I was lucky for the year I ran the tank fw. Of course then I only had a mag 9.5 feeding each return. Much less pressure than what my Hammerhead is providing. This will be good, I'll definitely sleep better at night!

Here is a pic from last year when I was running fw w/ a wet/dry. Had 3 12" Oscars in there along with 3 8" Gold Severums and 8 5" Silver Dollars. They all got along great. I donated the Oscars and some of the SDs to the lfs. The severums and remaining SDs now live in another tank. I have a feeling I'll be donating those to the lfs as well and turn that tank into sw down the road!

phlipper, I got married just 6 months ago, but fortunately the tanks were already in the house. I was going to get another tank, but she said 4 was my limit, but agreed to let me convert this one to sw. Little did she now what all was involved. :lol: Neither did I for that matter when I embarked on the conversion from fw to sw! I thought all I had to do was to pull those river rocks, add salt and then drop in some live rocks and be done since I already had a "reef ready" tank and a wet/dry filter. Good thing I found RC!