<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10881767#post10881767 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by srlumaye1
Not to highjack a thread, but since the topic is 400 vs 250s...
I currently have 3@400W SE halides on my 180 with 3@140W VHO actinics (2 in front, 1 in back).
I've always been unhappy with the coloring (not to mention the heat) of the 400W 10000K, not because of the brightness, but because they washed out the actinic pop. 20000K were just too blue and way too dim for my taste. The 14000K were about right color-wise for the coral color, but still seemed dim compared to the 10000K "brightness" I like. Thus I've decided on going with 250W bulbs (10000K initially). Also, my current PFO 400W ballasts are HUGE (they sit on the floor) and wasteful of electricity due to the .65 PF, so I'm also going to go with small electronic ballasts mounted on top the hood (out of sight).
The MH are mounted in spiderlight reflectors. I was all set to change out the whole spiderlight reflector structure to get DE bulbs, but from what I read here the SE should work just fine for now since I already have the investment in the reflectors???
I have just read a 120 post thread on the Odyssea light fixture and the mods required vs the Maristar I was about to purchase last week. But since I already have a hood which would hide the fixture, now I'm thinking of just buying new e-ballasts only (probably the new icecap 250W in case I DO end up going with DE someday).
Does this sound reasonable?
Also, I LOVE the coloring of the VHO actinics, and at night that is all that is on so I do not want to lose that... I still read conflicting stories on whether the newer T5 super actinic bulbs give the same pop as the URI VHO, but that could also be a seperate upgrade in the future too? Then again, I loved the coloring in Bill's tank and he used T5's...
Thoughts? (I AM getting closer to buying something...)
If you like the coloring of Bill's tank, then I would go T5's + halides and not look back. I prefer it myself as well. To me, the whole 'daylight' + purple light doesnt look right, because it leaves out the blue... which is what you SHOULD see the most of as you get deeper. This has been the major bonus of 20,000Kish halides... the huge blue spike does more for corals than any actinic. Not just the spectrum, but their output... its much greater than what the actinics put out per watt. The downside of the 20,000Kish halides (Reeflux 12,000Ks, Pheonix 14,000Ks, etc.) is their monochromatic look. Corals (esp red, yellow, and pink ones) can often look 'chalky' and washed out under the predominantly blue light. The major lack of daylight all together in these bulbs can leave the tank looking less than stunning. Wost case, you end up with something like what JD once had... Radiums with VHO actinics.... everything in his tank was blue and purple even if it was supposed to be red. Sure, the light color was cool, but you couldnt tell what the corals were supposed to look like. When he switched to that Maristar setup... his tank 'popped'. He has had killer acros in there all along... they were all just disguised in blue light.
Thats the appeal of the T5s + Halides. You can use a 10,000Kish bulb for the halide, get all its output and full spectrum, and then have the T5s supplimenting with loads of blue. The end result is alot like combining a 10,000K with a 20,000K... something not possible with any one halide bulb. FWIW, a 10,000K halide has more actinic than a 20,000K... loads of it... just covered up by all the daylight. What they lack is the blue spectrum... so 10,000Kish bulbs w/ blue+ style T5s is a great combo. I can understand the appeal for 'after hours' actinic viewing... but in that case then, you shouldnt be as concerned with the output compared to VHO's then... as they wont be competing with the halides. You could keep a VHO actinic if you really wanted I suppose, and just have it on a seperate switch for only coming on when you want to view... it does the tank no good otherwise.
Your bulbs are oversized though Steve. The only reason you havent scorched the tank with radiant energy alone is most likely because the reflectors are so... well... poor by today's standards. A lumenarc like Tom's will have 3x the output at most levels. At that, your lights are bright... perhaps too bright. If you want a bright halide... the Ushio/BLV nepturion 14,000Ks are PAR monsters in the 400watt version... I think they are the highest output of any 400 actually. But its perhaps overkill. One thing to keep in mind is that our eyes dont see blue light as well as green, and then red (only 10% of our cones are tuned to see blue), so what may be very bright blue to the corals and fish may be dull to you. Perhaps a visit with the PAR meter is in order. Also, there are some things that a T5 bulb can do to a coral that no halide or VHO can do... hard to explain... just have to see how dark and neon corals can get under T5s for yourself. I still have an orange whorling cap that is a neon blood red from the T5 tank.
My suggestion would be to get Lumenarc DE pendants (mini's in a black shell with a DE socket and glass). Then, Ushio 14,000Ks, and 2-4 rows of T5s... 5' T5s will do (only 6" short on each end... you wont notice, but you can stagger them if you like). If you have a Icecap660 ballast, you can run 3 5' T5s with it as is... two blue+ and an actinic should be fine. If no icecap, then some 80wattT5 ballasts/ retros from reefgeek.com. This is pretty much what Bill was using on his 120g... just 50% more for your tank which is 50% more. Similar to JD's as well, only better halide reflectors and not just the blue+ T5s (unless you go with only 2 rows of T5s). Your reflectors will be better than Bill's Hamiltons though... loads better... so dont worry about the Ushio's lower output. If you really think you need more after some time, try the Geisemann 14,500K bulbs... they are the same spectrum, only about 20-25% brighter. This setup should be plenty of light though for a 24" tall 180g though.
You might be able to make an even swap with someone, or sell the 400 watt PFOs used for what the 250wattHQI's will cost you (you are an EE, you can just buy M80 ballast kits and build them yourself and save a bundle as well... M80 spec is M80 spec in the end). The major costs will be with the reflectors... lumenarc3 DE's are at reefexotics on special right now for about $129 ea. I think. You could contact Daniel at PGS and see if he can make any of them w/o the black shell (I have seen them for $99 in the past) since you have a canopy. They are pretty much a 14" lumenarc mini with the DE socket and the glass. You could even have the 3" ducting put right on the reflector then, so you could have the heat ducted from right within the reflector itself... much better cooling. Then, the T5 retrofit kits... thats pretty straight forward.
