5-700 gallon reef build-Lighting?

[Kcon]

I am building a 4-5' cube tank(5-700 gallons) and don't want any wires or tubes showing in/on/near the display tank. I plan to use a Flowolf diverter(or 2) Coming up through the bottom center bulkhead. Any thoughts about that?

I have been out of the aquarium hobby for at least 5 years so I'm not up to date on all these new products. Which light do you all recommend, that will penetrate 4' of water? I won't be growing SPS on the bottom, but I will want soft corals and possibly clams(yes, I know they need lotsa light) if I can get enough light down there. Are the Ecoxotic 120W Cannons the best for penetration I can get? I want them as far above the tank as possible. No canopy, just lights hanging from the ceiling. A few focusable lights would be Ideal. Preferably, I'd like the lights 2' above the tank, but we'll see about that.

Regardless, my vision might be slightly compromised, but the tank is going to happen(ing). This will be my 5th or 6th marine tank, but there are so many new exciting products out there, I want to get it right the first time. I'm not worried about the prices of the lights, they are all expensive, I want the best, and most efficient.

Any other ideas for all the different filtration products or anything else, are appreciated
Thanks for any help or ideas, Kcon aka Kyle

 

[CuzzA]

Kyle,

So, this will be an island tank viewable from all four sides? If so then you'll want a center overflow box. You can conceal powerhead wires with rock attached to the box. You will just have to do this strategically so the pumps can be removed for servicing.

You'll need a dry bulkhead for the electrical. The flange side plumbing must be sealed unlike wet plumbing. I'm not familiar with a "flowolf diverter". If you want to use your return pump to aid in tank flow I would incorporate SeaSwirls. But since there will not be a canopy this may be unsightly. In that case I wouldn't be concerned with flow from the return, just your display/sump turnover rate and instead focus on your flow with powerheads.

The Cannon lights are what you're going to want. They have the capability to penetrate deep tanks and they look very nice. My LFS has 4 of them over a 300 gallon cube and they pop. That said they also have 8 T5's. So you may need more to prevent shadowing. 6' is awfully deep and you could end up with the common upper water column cone shadowing we see with these type of pennant style lights.

Hope this helps.

 

[karm40]

You might use some general lighting over the tank and use the Ecoxotic over the clams...
I don't know how you eliminate the wires unless you can find some battery operated lighting...

:bigeyes:

 

[CuzzA]

Any pipe/tube/conduit could be used to conceal the light wire.

 

[SPotter]

PLEASE RECONSIDER THE FLOWWOLFS!!!! Many people and a vendor on here got taken for a lot of money by them. I bought two of the original versions that did nothing but leak so they were replaced with the current version which did nothing but leak. I spent over $1500 with them and after 9 months I finally gave up and have nothing to show for it.

 

[iced98lx]

PLEASE RECONSIDER THE FLOWWOLFS!!!! Many people and a vendor on here got taken for a lot of money by them. I bought two of the original versions that did nothing but leak so they were replaced with the current version which did nothing but leak. I spent over $1500 with them and after 9 months I finally gave up and have nothing to show for it.

I can't state this enough. Do your homework on the flowwolfs.

 

[Kcon]

Wow! Thanks for the warning on the flowwolf. That's too bad because they would really make the look of the tank. I want a "cube of ocean" in front of my glass wall with a view. It faces north so the sun never shines in the window. I have it figured out how to eliminate all the clutter, I thought. What about 4 DC pumps, pushing return and closed loop water through 4 bulkheads(with directional nozels) through the bottom of the tank? All on a wave timer, so they cause a back and forth wave (basically, recreating a flowwolf using 4 separate pumps). Would an Apex do that? Thanks all, Kyle

 

[Kcon]

Yes Cuzza, it will be an island. The flowwolf is supposed to replace powerheads with a computer controlled timer that allows a lot of water to instantly go any direction you progam, thanks, Kyle

 

[Kcon]

Another question for you guys, is everybody starting with dead (cleaned/dried) rock these days? I seem to read that everywhere now days. I've certainly pulled my hair out trying to deal with aptasia and bubble algae, but it must take years to start from scratch......Kyle

 

[dave.m]

No, it is quite easy to start with dead rock. You can even buy bottled bacterial cultures to start you tank even faster. Like any method, you must make sure the type of rock you use does not leach pollutants into your tank.

What you give up is the biological diversity of real live rock. For many this has meant not having to deal with pests like nuisance crabs, stomatopods and aptaisia. But like problems with fish and coral predators, the real culprit has been the fact that few quarantine their live rock as they should before introducing it to the display tank.

People starting with dead rock rely on frag plugs to bring in coraline algae, but these plugs, as well as the shells of snails and beneficial crabs and shrimps, can also introduce pests. The dead rock method cannot make any difference with these other sources. You still have to quarantine all introductions to be absolutely sure.

Dave.M

 

[Kcon]

Thanks Dave, I purchased a bunch of nice looking porous dead rock. I was planning to get it going and then test it before adding anything. I will have 1 coral QT, and 2 fish QT's. 8-12 dosers, including water/change. I would like to add some quarantined live rock for some diversity, but not sure if I should?

I was planning to use both, a cermedia block(s) along with a fluidized bead filter, a UV, and skimmer, and some sort of easy to clean mechanical filter that hasn't been decided yet, any Ideas? (7500gph) Hayward Cartridge? Sand? Others? The tank is 750 gallons incase y'all forgot. Thanks, Kyle

 

[Kcon]

How do I subscribe to a thread? Kyle

 

[dave.m]

When someone says they've quarantined their live rock find out for how long - should be a minimum of 5-6 weeks, not days.

You don't need any of those things. You should plan on using filter socks if you have a lot of rock, granulated activated charcoal (GAC) and granulated ferric oxide (GFO).

To subscribe to a thread, find the Thread Tools menu top right.

Dave.M

 

[Kcon]

Thank you Dave, I thought I read somewhere (maybe triple s fish ranch, or somewhere) that the socks clogged up too often. How many, and what size socks for a 750g DT? How many microns, that is? (I looked at socks that are 7" x 30"+-) And how many of that size sock? I am building the sump and slightly modeling it after Paul's(triple s). Much of this system was inspired by his set up. Even the computer wire conduit he uses will hide my cords and tubes.

What is the latest consensus on live sand beds? Do the benefits out weigh the mess they seem to gather? They are definitively messy, but I know they produce a lot of anaerobic bacteria, and help other critters survive. With that said, I do prefer the look, but I also like the idea of a clean tank, so I am undecided.

I did my research on the new FWX (new version flowwolf, and their Blue ECO 240 Dc pumps that seem to be very efficient and versatile). I have been talking to the owner and he assures me the problems have been solved. I read all the testing specs and so forth, talked for hours, and (possibly against my better judgement) I am buying some to try out. The reason being, in my vision, there are no wires/tubes near the DT, just a floating (it will be on a small pedestal that will blend into the flooring making it appear to be floating in the air) "cube of ocean" in front of a glass wall with a view like Paul's. (I live in Austin too) I've been reading his thread for 2 years, I think? I have a huge "wet" room near the tank and all filters etc.. will be in another room.

Here's the kicker, no over flows in the DT. The sump will contain the overflow in the wet room. It will be at the same height as the DT. Connected with a 4" pvc tube through the bottom of the tank. I will have a small 1" tube sucking oils off the surface. But you won't see it because it will be drilled through the rock piers. (towers? can't think of the word) I know it sounds a bit risky, but I have the skills to make it happen and it WILL be an experiment. I can always put an overflow, or anything, on it later. But I've been planning since I started reading Paul's thread. I am a skilled Contractor with a huge shop. I am building my contemporary house INside the shop. Wet room(s) is 800 sqft total. (2 rooms, one atop the other). I hope to move in and start building the aquarium in a month or so. I'm working 12hrs/day, 7days/week on this project. I've been working for 1 year +-, and I completed a 7000' warehouse last summer, and about to finish the house (modest 1200sqft, not including wet room, which is an empty hole right now).

I think I'm going to start my build thread very soon. Might just copy/paste this into it. We'll see, I'm off to work. Thanks, Kyle

 

[Four drachma]

Wow Kyle, that sounds like a beautiful set up yore gonna build. I just finished setting up a 400 gallon DT and it's been fun. I too plumbed all my support equipment to my garage so it would be quieter in the room where the tank is.
I hate filter socks because, like you said the clog up so fast. So I'm testing out some mesh socks and then in the next chamber of my sump I'm placing 6 separate levels of filter pads that I can cut in large squares to filter particles out of the water column. I will be able to easily remove them and rinse them every few months rather than every week as with filter socks.
My tank is 32" deep and I wanted to support SPS so I have a combination of LED's and MH's. I saw the new Kessil AP700 being used at Aqua Tek and it looks good but I haven't used one.

Here's the Aquamesh I'm using for filtration, I got it at BRS.

Enjoy the build.

 

[dave.m]

Whoa, dude. I think you need to read some books on reef tanks, e.g. Mr. Saltwater Tank's - they're the most current. If you want to be more thorough read the three-volume set The Reef Aquarium by Delbeek and Sprung.

While I agree with you not wanting to see a lot of tubes, pipes and wires inside the tank I think you are definitely going the wrong way with the overflows and great big hole in the bottom. What will you do if the pumps fail or the power goes down? You cannot depend on check valves - they ALWAYS fail, and usually at the worst times. With a great big hole in the bottom of your tank the whole display will drain out, killing everything in the tank.

Consider that the way most people set up their tanks is the result of fifty years of others already doing most of the experimenting for you, including professional aquarists in public aquariums.

As for live sand beds, I am all for them. I hate a bare bottom. Just don't go too deep with the sand - 2-3" depth is fine. Some people set up a deep sand bed (6-12") as a denitrating filter. If you choose to go this route set it up as a separate filter. If the power goes out for more than a few hours a deep sandbed will die and turn toxic, requiring complete replacement. You need to be able to quickly and completely separate this filter from the rest of your system.

For filter socks you needn't go too crazy with size of mesh. Remember, we don't want a sterile environment, we just want to reduce accumulation of detritus. For a 750 gal display tank I would think 4-6 x 7" wide socks should suffice.

Remember, too, that these are my own personal opinions and you are likely to come across a hundred others who will disagree or quibble on every point. Sometimes it is better to start small if you have absolutely no experience with saltwater tanks. Get some mileage, make your mistakes on a small scale first, and then branch out into the bigger stuff a year later. Read books. There's lots of them out there. Noted authors in the hobby are Spotte, Delbeek, Sprung, Tullock, Shimek.

Have fun. It's a hobby, not a competition.

Dave.M

 

[Kcon]

Thanks 4d and Dave, I was leaning towards sand, as always have, I just wanted a new opinion. I have been out of the Marine aquarium scene for almost 10 years. I have many books but I am going to get that one you mentioned, thanks.

I've set up and run 3 successful reef tanks (up to 150g, the fourth split open. Never depend on used tanks w/out repairing them) and 2-3 fowlr tanks, and countless freshwater tanks. Since I was a kid so I've been doing this for +- 45 years, - the last 8-9 years. I have been researching for 2 years, off and on, and thinking about this tank, and a huge 3000 gallon native FOWLR tank that I designed my house around(windows from 3 rooms- bathroom, kitchen and behind the couch 4'x10'. That is why the wet room is so big. It will hold a 30,000 # system, up stairs, LOL! Most of my research(of late) has been on large tanks, and I have learned a lot. I will be going through 200#s of salt/week in a couple years. More on that later.

This 700g tank is first though. I appreciate your concern Dave. I've been out for awhile and am asking lots of questions so I can find out about all these crazy new products on the market. I build houses for a living and am sick of the same old thing. That's why my house is very contemporary, and so is my rimless cube of ocean. Clean lines is the theme, and doing something different is my method. The 6000# tank will be perched on a 16" square pedestal. (refigured things yesterday) The only weak point in my design is the bulkhead, so until I find one with a gasket that will last 20+ years, I'm dead in the water. The other option would be to plumb it with acrylic, but I don't trust that idea (yet).

If the power goes out, it's just like any other tank, just that the overflows are 10-12' away. I just bought a back up generator for the system anyway, but it is manual, not auto. Maybe later on I will get a big one. I am going to wire this one straight to the pumps, a couple lights, and my TV,(they will all be in a subpanel) so I'll be ready.

I already have the steel for the pedestal, it probably weighs 500#s by itself. 4'x4'x5/8" for the tank to sit on, under that a 30"tall x 16" square steel box. Under that is another 4'x4' steel plate. Under that are steel flitch beams in the joists (upstairs), held up by 10" dia telephone poles under the house, on the slab, which was specially engineered to hold that 30K+#s of FOWLR water. This little tank ain't nothin compared to what's going to be 10' away, but that's at least a year away, maybe two.

4D, I've been looking at all kinds of huge commercial filters, but haven't talked to the right people yet. I'm going to call Pentaire and see what they recommend for easy mechanical filtration. I had planned on using socks but have since read about 9? all clogging up together, so I'm thinking about a big sand filter or something. I do think your plan is a good one, and maybe what I end up doing. Off to work on it Kyle

 

[Kcon]

Thanks Dave, I just bought Mr Saltwater's "The Ultimate No-Nonsense Guide Bundle" and it looks great from here! It looks like what I've been looking for. I bought a couple others for my collection last year, but just didn't get anything new from them. You can never have too many books. My cousin gave me a book on breeding marine fish, and a few years ago I came really close to doing it, on a small scale (10+- smaller tanks) It does not look easy, but I like a challenge.

A couple years ago I was bored and missed my salt tank so I built a couple skimmers just for the heck of it. I did a lot of experimenting with different venturis and found that a couple pieces of pvc is just as good as a Mazzei. It's not rocket science, but it was fun and I found out all about 7' of head pressure and what it takes to be successful. I am going to cut that 7'er down and use it on my dead/live rock pretty soon. It will be the first time it tasted fish, LOL Thanks again, Kyle

 

[Kcon]

One more thing, I was talking to a pro and mentioned my detached overflow and he said he did that for a shark and ray tank at a state aquarium somewhere, and it's still going great after 9 years. That gave me a lot more confidence in my plan. I just don't want something average. It needs to be unique, like my house. None of my friends(non-aquarium people) will even realize the difference, but I will. That's what counts right now. I've put two years into this project of a lifetime, and it certainly is. Kyle

 

[Four drachma]

Kyle, let me know if you need some white sand. I bought about twice what I needed when I set up mine, so I have some extra bags of it.