hahnmeister
In Memoriam
Yeah, its called the 'calfo style' overflow by some... there is a whole big thread on it in the DIY section.
500G (84X48X30)- NOW REAL !
- Thread starter Sanjay
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. Best of luck with your tank Thanks.
I am very familiar with the Calfo overflow. It's what I designed my tank after. Calfo overflows are coast to coast overflow systems with no "Teeth." The intent is to maximize surface skimming for optimum protein removal.
The difference with this tank and mine is that the overflows are outside of the tank. The DIY Calfo overflow thread discusses internal overflow boxes.
I am very familiar with the Calfo overflow. It's what I designed my tank after. Calfo overflows are coast to coast overflow systems with no "Teeth." The intent is to maximize surface skimming for optimum protein removal.
The difference with this tank and mine is that the overflows are outside of the tank. The DIY Calfo overflow thread discusses internal overflow boxes.
TropTrea
New member
I think there is a tossup between going with or without teeth.
On the toothless side you may get an improvement on the surface proteins going into the filteration system. However with the toothed system you have less of a tendency of getting fish, and inverts into the overflow section.
Dennis
On the toothless side you may get an improvement on the surface proteins going into the filteration system. However with the toothed system you have less of a tendency of getting fish, and inverts into the overflow section.
Dennis
There is no doubt about that. One tank highlighted in this thread is apparently Plexiglass and has a slot in the back for the overflow. I'm adding a second glass piece above the overflow that I've termed a "Horizontal Tooth." It will create a narrow slot. 600 gph needs a 1" hole with an area of (pie r squared) less than 1 sq inch. That's easy to picture if you draw a 1" square, and a 1" dia circle inside it. The square holds the circle and more.
So, .75 sq inches across a 48" back needs less than 1/48" tall slot. I'm going with about 1/8". That should keep most creatures out, and not slow water in any way. The surface of the water can NOT touch the upper glass. That would defeat the purpose.
So, .75 sq inches across a 48" back needs less than 1/48" tall slot. I'm going with about 1/8". That should keep most creatures out, and not slow water in any way. The surface of the water can NOT touch the upper glass. That would defeat the purpose.
Sanjay
Premium Member
You can call it Calfo style or whatever you want to call it. Its been around before calfo. This hobby has a penchant for assigning names to ideas and corals for no rhyme or reason. !!!
Here is a sketch/picture of my tank from 12+ years ago, that had a similar overflow box.. with an external box attached to the outside and a very small internal one to skim from the top without using any teeth. I got this idea from a friend of mine who had been using it for several years on his tank.
http://www.personal.psu.edu/sbj4/aquarium/hardware/hardware.html#BM1
I personally do not feel teeth or no teeth makes any significant difference especially if the water is well mixed. My original design for this tank called for the back wall to be about an inch lower than the rest so there would be a complete overflow the full 7ft... but structurally this was not possible given the size of the tank and need for proper bracing. So what I settled for is 2 long slots, which allowed for enough material to glue the bracing on the sides and in the middle. Water flow through there is very similar to a full lenght overflow. I have eggcrate covering the slots just to keep critter out of the overflowbox and going into the sump. The small still gets through.
sanjay.
Here is a sketch/picture of my tank from 12+ years ago, that had a similar overflow box.. with an external box attached to the outside and a very small internal one to skim from the top without using any teeth. I got this idea from a friend of mine who had been using it for several years on his tank.
http://www.personal.psu.edu/sbj4/aquarium/hardware/hardware.html#BM1
I personally do not feel teeth or no teeth makes any significant difference especially if the water is well mixed. My original design for this tank called for the back wall to be about an inch lower than the rest so there would be a complete overflow the full 7ft... but structurally this was not possible given the size of the tank and need for proper bracing. So what I settled for is 2 long slots, which allowed for enough material to glue the bracing on the sides and in the middle. Water flow through there is very similar to a full lenght overflow. I have eggcrate covering the slots just to keep critter out of the overflowbox and going into the sump. The small still gets through.
sanjay.
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
"This hobby has a penchant for assigning names to ideas and corals for no rhyme or reason. !!!"
Tell me about it... I can understand it if something is patented, but stockman, durso, (theres another I cant think of right now), hayward loop, cali-style, calfo, berlin, amano, jaubert...
I gotta get my name on something, eh? Lol. Sanjay, you need to rebadge some ballasts and call them 'Sanjay ballasts'. I think I'll try to get my name on an algae scraper or something.
Tell me about it... I can understand it if something is patented, but stockman, durso, (theres another I cant think of right now), hayward loop, cali-style, calfo, berlin, amano, jaubert...
I gotta get my name on something, eh? Lol. Sanjay, you need to rebadge some ballasts and call them 'Sanjay ballasts'. I think I'll try to get my name on an algae scraper or something.
Gerard Alba
New member
this is what happens when a geek gets tha...cash!!!
Gerard Alba
New member
this is what happens when a geek gets tha...cash!!!
Ironsheikh
New member
I need a lesson in pillar formation ---Ive never been happy w/ my aquascape. I like the raised live rock look just like this
No offense, but if someone thinks that teeth vs no teeth and long slots vs 100% overflow are very close, there are some concepts of physics which are being overlooked. If 1/2 of your overflow is blocked by teeth, then you have effectively decreased the effective length of your overflow by 75%.
The protein molecules on the surface interact with one another and form bonds. When a group of molecules are blocked at the surface, many billions of molecules either side are effected and dam up the very micro-thin top layer of water. Water flow is not affected as it passes below the layer of dammed up molecules.
If your water is well mixed, this does not occur. Instead, your skimming is radically decreased by mixing the protein up in the water column instead of isolating it the very top to be skimmed by unobstructed overflows.
Does this stuff really matter? Not unless you really want a pure tank. If you spend a significant amount of cash on a skimmer, this should matter. It you didn't, and you don't want to maximize SPS, then it shouldn't matter.
I don't mean to come across abrasively. I just worked 12 hours and I'm tired.
The protein molecules on the surface interact with one another and form bonds. When a group of molecules are blocked at the surface, many billions of molecules either side are effected and dam up the very micro-thin top layer of water. Water flow is not affected as it passes below the layer of dammed up molecules.
If your water is well mixed, this does not occur. Instead, your skimming is radically decreased by mixing the protein up in the water column instead of isolating it the very top to be skimmed by unobstructed overflows.
Does this stuff really matter? Not unless you really want a pure tank. If you spend a significant amount of cash on a skimmer, this should matter. It you didn't, and you don't want to maximize SPS, then it shouldn't matter.
I don't mean to come across abrasively. I just worked 12 hours and I'm tired.
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
I think it also has to do with the throughput of the sump/overflow. I tend to run a minimal amount of water through my sump (about 2x the tank volume), and on top of that, I run it directly into a recirculating countercurrent skimmer. With only 200gph of overflow on a 100g tank though, or 120gph on a 60g, that leaves you with a very slim surface to skim, and with only your normal 6x6 corner overflows.
TropTrea
New member
Yes I'll agree with the multi nales without rymn or reason.
However one other point is that seems to 30 ways of fixing everything or doing anything. Of these 30 ways probably 20 ways actually work but if it the way your doing it none will convince you that one of the other ways well work as well.
Back to the teeth issue on overflow. First off teeth do not necessarly reduce effective surface flow by 75%. What you have to consider is the width of the teth and the spacing between the teeth. If you keep this spacing on an equal distant then total surface skimming will be reduced by 50%. However if you also double the lenght of the overflow than you will right back where you started from with a none toothed overflow. With the benifit of reducing the quantity of small creatures going over the so called edge.
However this brings up an other interesting question. What percentage of your tank volumn do you ron over your oerflow each hour. I know the overflows systtem on the 120 gallon AG tanks are rated as a total of 1,200 gph. However in reality how many even aproach that percentage on there over flow?
Dennis
However one other point is that seems to 30 ways of fixing everything or doing anything. Of these 30 ways probably 20 ways actually work but if it the way your doing it none will convince you that one of the other ways well work as well.
Back to the teeth issue on overflow. First off teeth do not necessarly reduce effective surface flow by 75%. What you have to consider is the width of the teth and the spacing between the teeth. If you keep this spacing on an equal distant then total surface skimming will be reduced by 50%. However if you also double the lenght of the overflow than you will right back where you started from with a none toothed overflow. With the benifit of reducing the quantity of small creatures going over the so called edge.
However this brings up an other interesting question. What percentage of your tank volumn do you ron over your oerflow each hour. I know the overflows systtem on the 120 gallon AG tanks are rated as a total of 1,200 gph. However in reality how many even aproach that percentage on there over flow?
Dennis
It's true that you have reduced the space for your water to flow through by only 50%, but when you take into consideration the micro-physics, the interaction of the molecules of protein on the surface with one-another, you have decreased your surface skimming by 75%. If you have doubled the length of your overflow, you weren't serious about skimming to begin with. Serious skimming requires 100% overflow.
Once again, I'm not saying your system is wrong. It's not wrong. I'm just pointing out ways to maximize skimming and the processes behind them.
TropTrea
New member
Well then you also move this into an argument as to how much flow you want over the overflow. Say an overflow is X inches long and with 100 gph flow it is skimming off the top .02 inches of the surface. Now if you increase the flow to 200 gph it is skimming off the top .04 inches, and if the flow is 2,400 gph it will be skimming off the top .48 inches of the surface.
Then another issue is if you only want to take the surface skim of the tank to your filteration system? I have seen some systems that also brin g is water near the bottom of the tank where a lot of the waste accumulates.
Personally I think this is getting down to old idea. There are 20 ways to make things work and 20 ways that things don't work. But if your using a sysyttem the works for you then you the other 39 are questionable in your mind.
Dennis
Then another issue is if you only want to take the surface skim of the tank to your filteration system? I have seen some systems that also brin g is water near the bottom of the tank where a lot of the waste accumulates.
Personally I think this is getting down to old idea. There are 20 ways to make things work and 20 ways that things don't work. But if your using a sysyttem the works for you then you the other 39 are questionable in your mind.
Dennis
Quote: "Well then you also move this into an argument as to how much flow you want over the overflow. Say an overflow is X inches long and with 100 gph flow it is skimming off the top .02 inches of the surface. Now if you increase the flow to 200 gph it is skimming off the top .04 inches, and if the flow is 2,400 gph it will be skimming off the top .48 inches of the surface. "
I agree. You have to pick the right flow. I'm using 'bout 600gph across 47".
"Then another issue is if you only want to take the surface skim of the tank to your filteration system? I have seen some systems that also brin g is water near the bottom of the tank where a lot of the waste accumulates."
Good Point. I'm using a 2500gph closed loop with an alternating current system to keep the bottom and reef well stirred up. Then, I'm skimming only the surface for the skimmer and sump. I imagine that anything that gets sucked up in this closed loop will be ground to a pulp and end up going over the overflow. If not, well, I tried.
I agree. You have to pick the right flow. I'm using 'bout 600gph across 47".
"Then another issue is if you only want to take the surface skim of the tank to your filteration system? I have seen some systems that also brin g is water near the bottom of the tank where a lot of the waste accumulates."
Good Point. I'm using a 2500gph closed loop with an alternating current system to keep the bottom and reef well stirred up. Then, I'm skimming only the surface for the skimmer and sump. I imagine that anything that gets sucked up in this closed loop will be ground to a pulp and end up going over the overflow. If not, well, I tried.
Sanjay
Premium Member
Early Christmas present for me and my tank 
I was waiting anxiously for the Fedex depot to open so I could go pick up my corals from Live Aquaria. Here they are... even the dog was excited to see them. this time I made sure I had the camera ready.
I ripped into them right away, faster than my kids on Christmas day. The first thing I saw was an acclimatization guide. Very nice touch.
One of my big concerns was that the corals make it here in good shape given that the weather took a nasty turn. We had our first snow and really cold weather with the night time temp dropping to almost 14 F. !!! I was just hoping the corals would not get affected by the cold.
Once I opened the box, I realized my concern were unfounded. The corals were packed extremely well, triple bagged with the thick black plastic in between, and each box had 3 heat packs each that were still warm when I opened the boxes. Not a single drop of water had spilled anywhere !!!! Even the fedex guys commented - no leaky box this time. They had had to deal with me and leaky packages for a very long time.
Could not wait to open the bags. Opened the first one, and checked the temperature in the bag. Now I was very impressed. The temp of the water in the bag was 72 deg F, and the water was absolutely clear.
The size of the frags was nice too... mutliple branches and well encrusted onto the ugly plug. 2 of them fell off the plugs.
Here are some pics of the frags.
Now off to spending the rest of my day putting the 20 frags in. With aquacultured frags like these who needs wild caught stuff !!
My first experience with frags from Live Aquaria and I am very pleased. Would be nice if the bags were labeled since now I do not know what is being sold under what name.. and I can't ID acros. Since I don't personally care a lot about the names its no big deal to me.
Between live aquaria, ORA, and other quality suppliers of aquacultured corals we have come a long way in this hobby.
sanjay.
I was waiting anxiously for the Fedex depot to open so I could go pick up my corals from Live Aquaria. Here they are... even the dog was excited to see them. this time I made sure I had the camera ready.
I ripped into them right away, faster than my kids on Christmas day. The first thing I saw was an acclimatization guide. Very nice touch.
One of my big concerns was that the corals make it here in good shape given that the weather took a nasty turn. We had our first snow and really cold weather with the night time temp dropping to almost 14 F. !!! I was just hoping the corals would not get affected by the cold.
Once I opened the box, I realized my concern were unfounded. The corals were packed extremely well, triple bagged with the thick black plastic in between, and each box had 3 heat packs each that were still warm when I opened the boxes. Not a single drop of water had spilled anywhere !!!! Even the fedex guys commented - no leaky box this time. They had had to deal with me and leaky packages for a very long time.
Could not wait to open the bags. Opened the first one, and checked the temperature in the bag. Now I was very impressed. The temp of the water in the bag was 72 deg F, and the water was absolutely clear.
The size of the frags was nice too... mutliple branches and well encrusted onto the ugly plug. 2 of them fell off the plugs.
Here are some pics of the frags.
Now off to spending the rest of my day putting the 20 frags in. With aquacultured frags like these who needs wild caught stuff !!
My first experience with frags from Live Aquaria and I am very pleased. Would be nice if the bags were labeled since now I do not know what is being sold under what name.. and I can't ID acros. Since I don't personally care a lot about the names its no big deal to me.
Between live aquaria, ORA, and other quality suppliers of aquacultured corals we have come a long way in this hobby.
sanjay.
maxxII
Super Housemonkey!
Sanjay,
Glad to hear your new frags made it in good shape. I've ordered from LiveAquaria before and been very pleased with the results...but havent received any corals from them before....nice to see that they do those well also.
Are you going to be doing any kind of preventative dip or QT before placng your new frags in the system? I lost all my acros to AEFW's....so I'm pretty hardcore about preventative dips/qt on corals now....
www.phishybusiness.com is another online vendor I've purchased from. I've bought frags, anemone's and fish from them. I have to say they pack their stuff hell for strong, almost ridiculously so and their livestock is in the same excellent shape as what I've received from LiveAquaria. Just an FYI for any who care...
BTW, The dog looks wildly excited about the new corals....
Nick
Glad to hear your new frags made it in good shape. I've ordered from LiveAquaria before and been very pleased with the results...but havent received any corals from them before....nice to see that they do those well also.
Are you going to be doing any kind of preventative dip or QT before placng your new frags in the system? I lost all my acros to AEFW's....so I'm pretty hardcore about preventative dips/qt on corals now....
www.phishybusiness.com is another online vendor I've purchased from. I've bought frags, anemone's and fish from them. I have to say they pack their stuff hell for strong, almost ridiculously so and their livestock is in the same excellent shape as what I've received from LiveAquaria. Just an FYI for any who care...
BTW, The dog looks wildly excited about the new corals....
Nick
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