600 Gallon Upgrade Build

theReefKing said:
What's next on the todo list?
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Believe it or not, I am going to go backwards with this build. I am trying to acquire either two 75 or 90 gallon tanks, one for underneath the stand and the other for a display refugium. I am still deciding on what to do with the tank under the stand. I might just fill it with live rock and run that and the refugium off the present sump and then finalize the system once the tank gets finished.:headwallblue::headwallblue::headwallblue:

I am awaiting for my cube to finish being buffed and returned so I can get that running and cycled. I also want a colony tank but don't know if I want to tie it into the main system or run it on a separate system on its own.

So thats been running through my head while I have been recovering. If anyone has any ideas I would love to hear and maybe incorporate them.
 
theReefKing said:
How do you plan to tie the display refugium to the main tank?

Will it still be under tank? Or in a different part of the house?
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It will be right next to the tank. I will get a pump rated about 1000 or so to feed the refugium and for the tank underneath I will feed it with the tee off one of the drains. I have to find the post on the thread that shows what the inside of the stand will look like.
 
Experiment

Experiment

Now I know what you are all thinking to yourself, "What the heck is Leroy up to?" Well I will tell you.

I have been fighting phosphates in my present tank for like ever. A couple months ago it got as high as .51. I initially found the problem as my city did something to the water and my RO/DI unit crashed and I had to replace the membrane and the cartridges. Then after a few weeks my TDS meter was reading zero but only to find out that the water coming out after the resin was reading .30 phosphates. I thought my resin was color changing but apparently it decided not to change. So I changed the resin, carbon, and filter cartridges and then phosphates dropped to .01.

My normal dosing of NoPox was 25 ml so I bumped it up to 30 ml and the phosphates only went down to .47. I upped the dosage to 35 ml to have them drop to .4. I added GFO and raised it to 40 ml and after about a week they went down to about .28 and they stuck there getting as low as .20.

During this time my Nitrates were 0 - .25. I know that corals need some Nitrates and Phosphates for color of their zooanthelia or however you spell the word. So I wondered to myself if their Nitrates and Phosphates are zero, was that the reason they werent getting the color they want or worse yet their tanks crashing. I know that every tank is different because there are some successful tanks with those parameters.

So thinking about the redfield ratio, which i know is a guideline of ration is to carbon, to nitrates, to phosphates, I came up with a solution to my problem.
For the past two weeks I have been dosing nitrates to my tank. My goal was to get to about 3-5 ppm of Nitrates. I started out with 30 ml and I didn't get any readings until I raised the dosage to about 70 ml. Note during this time I was still dosing the NoPox because it was recommended by the instructions on the NeoNitrate.

I have been dosing the 70 mls for about 4 days and I am here to say that my phosphates are down from .23 to about .14. I will continue to perform this dosing until I get the phosphates to the appropriate levels. I have to change out my GFO because I tested the water coming out of it and it was tested at .2 which is weird because my water tested at .14.

Now I know there might be question, concerns, or haterade. So far this has worked for me so when I upgrade should the problem reoccur I have a safe solution to my phosphate problem. Now does food play a role considering that there might be phosphates in the food? I cant say right now because after soaking my food rather it is pellets, frozen, or flakes, I pour the water through the net and release the food to feed.

This is my experiment and mine only. A close friend of mine was having the conversation with me and suggested I try it. So thats whats going on while I am gimping along. I would love to hear any input or ideas on your mind. Or if you have questions I will answer them to the best of my ability.

Two Fingers.
 
Very interesting to say the least. It does make sense, it seems like you just accelerated the balancing act we all see in our tanks as they mature. In mine I run GFO for two weeks, then nothing, then GAC for two weeks. This has been working for me of course my bioload consists of 4 fish, two cleaner shrimp and 50 hermits.
 
Could it be that you have accumulated enough detritus over time to have your tank turn into a PO4 machine? I don't doubt that your source water is a concern per your description, and I would definitely think about adding a second, finer sediment filter (or a Polyfilter) to your RO/DI unit, but it may be that you need to seriously vacuum out your sand bed. Another thing to do, and I know it's a pain, is to thoroughly vacuum off your rockwork to capture all the stuff that has settled there over time. Once you see how much crud comes out after cleaning the sand and rocks you will probably never let them get that bad again.

Dave.M
 
Sonicboom said:
Very interesting to say the least. It does make sense, it seems like you just accelerated the balancing act we all see in our tanks as they mature. In mine I run GFO for two weeks, then nothing, then GAC for two weeks. This has been working for me of course my bioload consists of 4 fish, two cleaner shrimp and 50 hermits.
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Well I have about 30 fish in my tank and feeding twice a day and a semi small cleanup crew. I will probably follow your idea once I get the phosphates in check.
 
dave.m said:
Could it be that you have accumulated enough detritus over time to have your tank turn into a PO4 machine? I don't doubt that your source water is a concern per your description, and I would definitely think about adding a second, finer sediment filter (or a Polyfilter) to your RO/DI unit, but it may be that you need to seriously vacuum out your sand bed. Another thing to do, and I know it's a pain, is to thoroughly vacuum off your rockwork to capture all the stuff that has settled there over time. Once you see how much crud comes out after cleaning the sand and rocks you will probably never let them get that bad again.

Dave.M
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Could be but I thought detritus was the cause for high nitrates? I can't tell you how long it's been since I have blown my rocks out and I never have vacuumed my sand bed(no excuse but only because my tank is 30 inches tall). I was thinking of adding an extra RO/DI resin to combat the impurities but never a second sediment filter. Sounds like a new plan of action.

As always it's an honor for you to post on my thread with our wealth of knowledge.
 
No knowledge, just shooting blanks in the dark. Accumulated uneaten food can be a MAJOR source of PO4 in the tank. You'll have to be really careful if the stuff is old and thick. You may inadvertently release H2SO4 created by rot when disturbing the sandbed. If there are still fish in the tank it will kill them all.

You really want to get an effective clean-up crew working for you. Get some fighting/sand conchs and some nassarius snails. Both will go beneath the surface of the sandbed to get at detritus.

Believe me, I know what a pain it can be to clean a deep tank out. I once had to remove all the sandbed by hand from a 36" tall tank with only one foot clearance above it (hint: long-handled wok spatula -cheap, disposable). It really taught me the importance of keeping the sandbed clean. Honestly, I pulled out more muck than sand from down there! I re-washed all the sand by hand, got a good clean-up crew when the tank was re-cycled, and never had a PO4 problem again in that tank.

Dave.M
 
dave.m said:
No knowledge, just shooting blanks in the dark. Accumulated uneaten food can be a MAJOR source of PO4 in the tank. You'll have to be really careful if the stuff is old and thick. You may inadvertently release H2SO4 created by rot when disturbing the sandbed. If there are still fish in the tank it will kill them all.

You really want to get an effective clean-up crew working for you. Get some fighting/sand conchs and some nassarius snails. Both will go beneath the surface of the sandbed to get at detritus.

Believe me, I know what a pain it can be to clean a deep tank out. I once had to remove all the sandbed by hand from a 36" tall tank with only one foot clearance above it (hint: long-handled wok spatula -cheap, disposable). It really taught me the importance of keeping the sandbed clean. Honestly, I pulled out more muck than sand from down there! I re-washed all the sand by hand, got a good clean-up crew when the tank was re-cycled, and never had a PO4 problem again in that tank.

Dave.M
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Should should I or should I not vacuum the sandbed since I haven't done it. Or just get the cleanup crew you suggested?
 
Only you can prevent fores.... I mean, only you can tell what the state of your sandbed and rockwork are. If it really is getting scary in there then you might need to remove the fish before starting a near tear-down of the tank. On the other hand, a light vac shouldn't do too much harm and would provide a good start to introducing a clean-up crew.

Dave.M
 
If your sand bed has never been vacuumed then I wouldn't recommend vacuuming it out all at once. It can be toxic.

Conchs are great at aerating the sand bed and cleaning it. I have two in my tank and my sand bed is pretty clean. Nassarius snails only eat meat they leave all algae alone in my experience.
 
The sandbed is only 1 inch, 1 1/2 inches at the most. I will probably do small parts at a time over a period and just be careful of what I am doing.
 
Newbie Aquarist said:
The sandbed is only 1 inch, 1 1/2 inches at the most. I will probably do small parts at a time over a period and just be careful of what I am doing.
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That should work don't you think Dave? Solution to pollution is dilution.
So in turn reduce the pollution and you also have a solution.
(Starting to sound like Dr. Seuss)

We try to turn up the sand bed every other water change or so, but doing a bit at a time until you have worked your way across the tank should get you to where you want to be safely.
 
I can't see what the condition of the sandbed is so we will have to trust in Newbie's judgement. Go slow, do bit at a time is always a good method. If you have filter socks in place a simple expedient can be to just wave your hand back and forth in the tank to stir the detritus up to be collected in the overflow. Do it every day for a couple of minutes. Over time you should see less and less detritus being stirred up until the tank is running clean.

On an ongoing basis really watch what is happening when you feed. No food should be hitting the bottom or the rockwork. If there is it may be that you are feeding too much, or another concern is that you may be feeding too quickly. Work with your tank's inhabitants to meet their needs, not yours.

I don't care for flake food - too messy. I prefer pellets, but not all fish take to them right away. It may take some time to wean them over. Mix the pellets in with the frozen mysis or whatever else you feed your fish.

Dave.M
 
theReefKing said:
That should work don't you think Dave? Solution to pollution is dilution.
So in turn reduce the pollution and you also have a solution.
(Starting to sound like Dr. Seuss)

We try to turn up the sand bed every other water change or so, but doing a bit at a time until you have worked your way across the tank should get you to where you want to be safely.
Click to expand...

Should I prevent the pollution in my tank,
Should I dilute it with a fox named Frank.
 
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