6000 gallon reef tank
- Thread starter frozenapple22
- Start date
is the glass half empty or half full?
maybe he is just trying to get attention in which case many of you are right...
but if he is serious... then he has no worries how much the project will cost. If he has started planning a project this big money is not an issue. Rich people tend to not care how much something costs if it is something they want. Obviously if the guy is serious about a 6000 gallon aquarium then he is rich enough to have it and pay for any mistakes he makes along the way. As a beginner I realize the learning curve is high (I have rearched hundreds of hours prior to starting my tank, which is just getting started, because I couldnt afford to start it), but in the end the same basic principles are importatnt. The means to attain them may be different but as long as he covers the usual bases of water quality, structural integrity, quality equipment, and hard work he will be fine. I am pretty sure this guy is not basing his decisions on all of the "internet wizards" out there. I hope this thing comes together for ya.... and I will be patiently waiting for the next step in the process!
CHEERS!!!
maybe he is just trying to get attention in which case many of you are right...
but if he is serious... then he has no worries how much the project will cost. If he has started planning a project this big money is not an issue. Rich people tend to not care how much something costs if it is something they want. Obviously if the guy is serious about a 6000 gallon aquarium then he is rich enough to have it and pay for any mistakes he makes along the way. As a beginner I realize the learning curve is high (I have rearched hundreds of hours prior to starting my tank, which is just getting started, because I couldnt afford to start it), but in the end the same basic principles are importatnt. The means to attain them may be different but as long as he covers the usual bases of water quality, structural integrity, quality equipment, and hard work he will be fine. I am pretty sure this guy is not basing his decisions on all of the "internet wizards" out there. I hope this thing comes together for ya.... and I will be patiently waiting for the next step in the process!
CHEERS!!!
dogstar74
Premium Member
My post is not intended to diswade him. I am a fellow huge tank dreamer. I hope we can all agree that many other people have spent their entire life and fortunes chasing far less worthy causes than a huge fish tank.
I for one hope it works out.
Try Reynold's polymer for acrylic sheets big enough for your project by the way. May look into them. I will say that Bill Wann wasn't pleased with what they had to offer, and that does raise more than one red flag for me, as I respect what he's doing with his really huge tank.
Good luck.
I for one hope it works out.
Try Reynold's polymer for acrylic sheets big enough for your project by the way. May look into them. I will say that Bill Wann wasn't pleased with what they had to offer, and that does raise more than one red flag for me, as I respect what he's doing with his really huge tank.
Good luck.
OK I will bite.
Frozenapple- Here are my suggestions
1. Your post said your house was underconstruction. You need to get this tank fully integrated into your design. This tank will effect all of the trades for example:
a. Electrical. Get it's own breaker panel (300 amp) with a NG generator I would go with a 50 kilowatt that could run the tank and some of your house.
2. Foundation and the tank itself. This is much more complicated than it seems. It is not like putting in a pool. If the pool leaks you drain it and patch/seal. Your tank can never leak. There is no way to temp house 4 tons of live rock, hundreds of fish, and thousand of corals. Your tank cannot leak. This requires soil testing. huge footings, engineered rebar patterns, batch testing the concrete and specialized sealing. Even a hair line crack that allows salt water to reach the rebar will eventually corrode the rebar cause spalling and failure. Concrete can be done but it is difficult. I did a concrete sump (only 500 gallons) it needed to be below grade, that costed me 12,000 dollars. It will not leak though. I would suggest an alternative constuction method. Fiberglass tank with glass viewing panels. Public aquariums have gone to these exclusively for all of the midrange tanks. 500-5000 gallons. I personally own 2 (600 and 1200 gallon) they are as light as acrylic and much stronger. You would need to have it built and delivered and then basically you build your house around it. I got mine for Fiberglass Creations out of Tyler Texas.
If you call ask for Kelly Hall. Even with a fiberglass tank you will need massive footings.
Floor drains- You need them incorported everywhere water could
possibly go. If disaster struck you could ruin your house without them.
The sump in you diagram is not adequate. You need a sump room
larger than your tank. This is where the most careful planing will be required. Carefully consider placement of everything, dozens of outlets need placing. Every wire, outlet, drain, pipe, fixture needs to be incorporated into you plans.
Humidity Controll. Consider your sump room and tank as completely seperate from the house with its own heating and cooling system. A poolhouse furnace/AC unit with a heat recovery ventilator is best. I would put a small building in the back yard and plumb to it undergound. Probably a cheaper and better option. It also affords you the space to put a huge refugium. (1000 gallon stock tank, huge salt mix tanks, ro tank, grow out)
Depth of the tank. 8 feet is crazy deep. I dont even know what sort of lighting you could use. 1000 watters would still limit you greatly on what you could place in the bottom half of the tank and you would need 18 of them to provide a mere 3 watts per gallon. I know we are assuming money is no object but on a replacement schedule of every 3000 hours you are spending about $4000 on bulbs (ushio 10K) every 8 months. Thats 500 a month for about half the wattage you want for sps. I know there are 2kw and 3kw MH bulbs for industrial use but the spectrums are probably to warm. The depth of your tank complicates everything. From lighting to your view panels that need to be literally a couple inches thick and maintenance gets exponetially more difficult. At 8 feet you cannot even stand in the tank. You have to swim. 6000 gallons is huge but for swimming it would be very tight depending on you aquascape. I could picture my self paddling around breaking of corals like a bull in a china shop. If maintenance is not easy it does not get done as well.
My suggestion is to make you tank no deeper than 40 inches with a 30 inch viewing panes. This would allow you to use standard 19mm glass and with a suspend trolley you can lie above the tank to do maintenance a couple of grabbers may be require to reach the bottom but you would never have to get in the tank. And 1000 watters would work great. You could keep clams on the sandbed.
If I where doing a my fantasy tank that required a house designed around it I would make sure the the viewing panels where in different rooms that I spend alot of time in. (kitchen, livingroom, bedroom) one panel in each room.
I hope that gets you thinking. Good Luck
Frozenapple- Here are my suggestions
1. Your post said your house was underconstruction. You need to get this tank fully integrated into your design. This tank will effect all of the trades for example:
a. Electrical. Get it's own breaker panel (300 amp) with a NG generator I would go with a 50 kilowatt that could run the tank and some of your house.
2. Foundation and the tank itself. This is much more complicated than it seems. It is not like putting in a pool. If the pool leaks you drain it and patch/seal. Your tank can never leak. There is no way to temp house 4 tons of live rock, hundreds of fish, and thousand of corals. Your tank cannot leak. This requires soil testing. huge footings, engineered rebar patterns, batch testing the concrete and specialized sealing. Even a hair line crack that allows salt water to reach the rebar will eventually corrode the rebar cause spalling and failure. Concrete can be done but it is difficult. I did a concrete sump (only 500 gallons) it needed to be below grade, that costed me 12,000 dollars. It will not leak though. I would suggest an alternative constuction method. Fiberglass tank with glass viewing panels. Public aquariums have gone to these exclusively for all of the midrange tanks. 500-5000 gallons. I personally own 2 (600 and 1200 gallon) they are as light as acrylic and much stronger. You would need to have it built and delivered and then basically you build your house around it. I got mine for Fiberglass Creations out of Tyler Texas.
If you call ask for Kelly Hall. Even with a fiberglass tank you will need massive footings.
Floor drains- You need them incorported everywhere water could
possibly go. If disaster struck you could ruin your house without them.
The sump in you diagram is not adequate. You need a sump room
larger than your tank. This is where the most careful planing will be required. Carefully consider placement of everything, dozens of outlets need placing. Every wire, outlet, drain, pipe, fixture needs to be incorporated into you plans.
Humidity Controll. Consider your sump room and tank as completely seperate from the house with its own heating and cooling system. A poolhouse furnace/AC unit with a heat recovery ventilator is best. I would put a small building in the back yard and plumb to it undergound. Probably a cheaper and better option. It also affords you the space to put a huge refugium. (1000 gallon stock tank, huge salt mix tanks, ro tank, grow out)
Depth of the tank. 8 feet is crazy deep. I dont even know what sort of lighting you could use. 1000 watters would still limit you greatly on what you could place in the bottom half of the tank and you would need 18 of them to provide a mere 3 watts per gallon. I know we are assuming money is no object but on a replacement schedule of every 3000 hours you are spending about $4000 on bulbs (ushio 10K) every 8 months. Thats 500 a month for about half the wattage you want for sps. I know there are 2kw and 3kw MH bulbs for industrial use but the spectrums are probably to warm. The depth of your tank complicates everything. From lighting to your view panels that need to be literally a couple inches thick and maintenance gets exponetially more difficult. At 8 feet you cannot even stand in the tank. You have to swim. 6000 gallons is huge but for swimming it would be very tight depending on you aquascape. I could picture my self paddling around breaking of corals like a bull in a china shop. If maintenance is not easy it does not get done as well.
My suggestion is to make you tank no deeper than 40 inches with a 30 inch viewing panes. This would allow you to use standard 19mm glass and with a suspend trolley you can lie above the tank to do maintenance a couple of grabbers may be require to reach the bottom but you would never have to get in the tank. And 1000 watters would work great. You could keep clams on the sandbed.
If I where doing a my fantasy tank that required a house designed around it I would make sure the the viewing panels where in different rooms that I spend alot of time in. (kitchen, livingroom, bedroom) one panel in each room.
I hope that gets you thinking. Good Luck
garvin90
New member
I agree on both sides of the coin here, yes to the huge tank dream but also yes to realization that it is a very labor intensive project that will cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Frozen, noone knows your wallet better than you, if you can afford it and are willing to make the sacrifice, go for it! I recently was asking my local club members if i should go for a 120 or a 150(short, 4x30"x2).Pretty much everyone told me the 120 because the 150 would be to hard to light etc. I went out and bought 2 400 halides and now most everyone thinks a deep tank will be cool. The majority of people it seems just dont get on the bandwagon with free thinkers till they put their money where their mouth is unfortunately.
Im all for this project as long as its done right. I sugest that you communicate with spazz or try to get in touch with bill wann since both of you will have similiar issues of humidity, heating, flow etc.
One thing ive noticed is, you have even said what kind of corals you will be keeping. It says 6000 gallon reef tank, but what kind of reef?
Frozen, noone knows your wallet better than you, if you can afford it and are willing to make the sacrifice, go for it! I recently was asking my local club members if i should go for a 120 or a 150(short, 4x30"x2).Pretty much everyone told me the 120 because the 150 would be to hard to light etc. I went out and bought 2 400 halides and now most everyone thinks a deep tank will be cool. The majority of people it seems just dont get on the bandwagon with free thinkers till they put their money where their mouth is unfortunately.
Im all for this project as long as its done right. I sugest that you communicate with spazz or try to get in touch with bill wann since both of you will have similiar issues of humidity, heating, flow etc.
One thing ive noticed is, you have even said what kind of corals you will be keeping. It says 6000 gallon reef tank, but what kind of reef?
Your lighting will definately be an issue. It's hard to figure a correct lighting system without consulting someone that has done a ton of research. That said, you can use the 2000w and 3000w MH for lighting. That will help penetrate the water depth. You will for certain need to suplement the lighting to adjust the warmth of the higher watt bulbs. You could supplement with 20 000k 400w bulbs to get the lighting color you desire. Using MH to suplement will help your Par readings. You will definately require a lot of lights to get what you need.
I'd find someone here on the forums to help you solve this issue. Once you've found a good solution for the lighting. I'd then attack the other equipment you's need.
I'd find someone here on the forums to help you solve this issue. Once you've found a good solution for the lighting. I'd then attack the other equipment you's need.
steve the plumb
In Memoriam
You can do anything with money.I would get a company or hire someone like Spazz to design and build you the system.There was a guy(MR 4000) was his nick name.He built a 4000 tank in his basement he was using miracle mud and he used to be on there web site.I don't know if he is on there any more.He had video of him getting in his tank.He had 2x 250 gal tanks just for the miracle mud for his sump.I forgot how much he spent on his tank.I don't see how you can't do it.I do see how you can do it wrong.The large water volume will add to stability but if the tank design and filtration isn't done properly then long term can be a problem.I don't care how much water you have in there.The principal of a system is still the same.Larger more stable but overstock it and eventually if the maintenance isn't there you are headed for a disaster.This could be a big problem long term.You are talking about a lot of livestock.If I had the money and the space I would do it.The greatest thing about money is you don't need to know one dam thing about this hobby.You can like it and pay someone else to maintain it.Don't try and sell the house afterwards because no one will want the tank and you will not tear this tank out of the house.It will be a permanent part of the structure.Would it be possible for you to throw a little money my way.I am currently over budget on my 300 gal.My tank will cost me $9000 with out live stock.
WDLV
Skunk Hybrid Freak
If I were you I would take whatever info you get on the boards here with a grain of salt. Less than 1% of the people on this site (myself included) have dealt with an aquarium of this magnitude and can offer you little more than encouragement.
I would contact Joe Y. of the Atlantis Aquarium (justjoe) when you're just about done with all your floor reinforcements and think you're ready to start with the ventilation and electrical wiring of the room this tank will be going in.
Offer him a few hundred dollars for a couple hours of his time then head up to Riverhead NY and pick his brain and look at his slideshows.
He is not only one of the nicest, least arrogant people I've met, but he is only one of two people that I have personally met who has designed an aquarium of that size and the only one I have met who has assisted in the maintenance of that aquarium after construction was completed.
Leading up to that point, I would contact your local Public aquariums. I use the word "local" liberally. First, contact the curator of the NC public aquarium on the outer banks and go to Atlantic Beach and check out the renovations they have done with the aquarium out there. Pick their brain for info on circulation and filtration techniques. That should be a day trip for you. I would also speak with Bruce Carlson at the GA aquarium and check out the reef system he helped to design there. That would be a weekend well spent.
You could also come up here and speak to Jessica Spino at the Baltimore aquarium. That would also be a weekend trip but well worth it.
I wish you the best of luck with your dream system.... I hope to build a 3-5K system in my next home and these are some of the people I have spoken with to get useful tips.
I hope that you will share all of your experiences with this project and not let anyone discourage you.
I would contact Joe Y. of the Atlantis Aquarium (justjoe) when you're just about done with all your floor reinforcements and think you're ready to start with the ventilation and electrical wiring of the room this tank will be going in.
Offer him a few hundred dollars for a couple hours of his time then head up to Riverhead NY and pick his brain and look at his slideshows.
He is not only one of the nicest, least arrogant people I've met, but he is only one of two people that I have personally met who has designed an aquarium of that size and the only one I have met who has assisted in the maintenance of that aquarium after construction was completed.
Leading up to that point, I would contact your local Public aquariums. I use the word "local" liberally. First, contact the curator of the NC public aquarium on the outer banks and go to Atlantic Beach and check out the renovations they have done with the aquarium out there. Pick their brain for info on circulation and filtration techniques. That should be a day trip for you. I would also speak with Bruce Carlson at the GA aquarium and check out the reef system he helped to design there. That would be a weekend well spent.
You could also come up here and speak to Jessica Spino at the Baltimore aquarium. That would also be a weekend trip but well worth it.
I wish you the best of luck with your dream system.... I hope to build a 3-5K system in my next home and these are some of the people I have spoken with to get useful tips.
I hope that you will share all of your experiences with this project and not let anyone discourage you.
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Good advice. We know he would need lots of professional help, anyone designing such a system would seek the consult of many other professionals (structural engineers, mechanical engineers, electrical engineers, HVAC, etc.) Public Aquariums have the advantage of having many of these people on staff. Giant tanks frequently have customized equipment that is designed and built on site. (surge systems and light racks)
As far as taking the info with a grain of salt I think he has received some pretty good advice, given the limited info and feedback he has given. A novice hobbiest ask for information on equipment required to set up 6000 gallon reef.
1. We let him know about about the magnatude and expense of the proposed project just in case he did not have a full appreciation of this. Not many novice hobbiest would. I suspect this is the case and we saved him alot of time and money.
2. We gave him some basic design advice. At least now he knows a few more topics that he does not know enough about. I don't think anyone thought he was going to design the tank off this thread alone.
3. We praised his spirit and his "dream"
4. We gave him referrals to other professionals.
I think he got his moneys worth.
As far as taking the info with a grain of salt I think he has received some pretty good advice, given the limited info and feedback he has given. A novice hobbiest ask for information on equipment required to set up 6000 gallon reef.
1. We let him know about about the magnatude and expense of the proposed project just in case he did not have a full appreciation of this. Not many novice hobbiest would. I suspect this is the case and we saved him alot of time and money.
2. We gave him some basic design advice. At least now he knows a few more topics that he does not know enough about. I don't think anyone thought he was going to design the tank off this thread alone.
3. We praised his spirit and his "dream"
4. We gave him referrals to other professionals.
I think he got his moneys worth.
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
So, if the poster is serious, he should post a list of equipment that he intends to use... with prices (or we can help estimate it). That way, before he even commits to anything, if there are any obvious problems or mistakes, they can be worked out. If the budget is unrealistic... then we will know.
Also, a budget of time and monthly upkeep and costs would be a good idea. For me, its not so much the cost that keeps me from even wanting a 1000g+ reef tank... its the upkeep that I really dont feel like getting out of control with. Thats why I will most likely never want more than a 2' tall tank... even when I go 6'x6'... because its just easier to reach into the tank in a split second and move something if I need to. 8' tall? Well, thats an hour or so a week just putting on your snorkel and fins & getting in and out of the tank, taking an extra shower before and after, etc. So for me, a 500g is about as large as I think I would ever like to go... more than that, and its a seperate part of the house with its own chores and responsibilities... and that really takes away from the enjoyment for me. Id rather have an extra 2 hours of viewing time than an extra 2 hours a week of cleaning time.
One question, and this is somewhat aimed at Spazz (Bill), etc. For concrete tanks, why dont people just mix the sealer into the concrete? There are vinyl additives that prevent the concrete from soaking up water. It would seem to be a better option than just paintint the inner surface with something, unless that something was very hard, at least like acrylic. A rubber/epoxy coating just seems too easy for the critters to want to burrow into (if a fan worm), or try to snack on to see what that rubbery stuff tastes like (like an urchin). I dont know... but coating concrete would just make me nervous.
Also, a budget of time and monthly upkeep and costs would be a good idea. For me, its not so much the cost that keeps me from even wanting a 1000g+ reef tank... its the upkeep that I really dont feel like getting out of control with. Thats why I will most likely never want more than a 2' tall tank... even when I go 6'x6'... because its just easier to reach into the tank in a split second and move something if I need to. 8' tall? Well, thats an hour or so a week just putting on your snorkel and fins & getting in and out of the tank, taking an extra shower before and after, etc. So for me, a 500g is about as large as I think I would ever like to go... more than that, and its a seperate part of the house with its own chores and responsibilities... and that really takes away from the enjoyment for me. Id rather have an extra 2 hours of viewing time than an extra 2 hours a week of cleaning time.
One question, and this is somewhat aimed at Spazz (Bill), etc. For concrete tanks, why dont people just mix the sealer into the concrete? There are vinyl additives that prevent the concrete from soaking up water. It would seem to be a better option than just paintint the inner surface with something, unless that something was very hard, at least like acrylic. A rubber/epoxy coating just seems too easy for the critters to want to burrow into (if a fan worm), or try to snack on to see what that rubbery stuff tastes like (like an urchin). I dont know... but coating concrete would just make me nervous.
erics3000
Active member
Hahnmeister. Ditto the only reason why I went with a 300 display is upkeep and maintnance limitation. if not I would have added on to my house already. hahaha. Just cleaning that much glass or acrylic..Thinking baout it...Man I just crushed my dream again. Oh well back to reality...
zemuron114
In Memoriam
Dont get me wrong... Im a huge fan of the big reef dream. But it seems you haven't taken everything into consideration.
There is no way you can install this tank if the house is already being built. It has to be built first then the house around it. It is probably too late for something this big if the house is in progress. Maybe something smaller will be better suited?
There is no way you can install this tank if the house is already being built. It has to be built first then the house around it. It is probably too late for something this big if the house is in progress. Maybe something smaller will be better suited?
jumboshrimp18
Premium Member
Fantastic thread. Completely absurd. A guy with a 20 gl tank wants to upgrade to a 6000 gl tank and a half of the responses take him seriously and a half try to clarify the depth of the involvement. Only on RC.
ReefingBuddha
New member
good old frozen hasn't posted in a while... still around?
If I were him and had read some of these responses ... I probably would have moved onto a friendlier board.
Frozen... if you're still around ... I wish you the best of luck with your house and tank... sorry some people here are so negative.... hope it doesn't discourage you from posting here, or some other boards with your questions... and eventually progress.
Frozen... if you're still around ... I wish you the best of luck with your house and tank... sorry some people here are so negative.... hope it doesn't discourage you from posting here, or some other boards with your questions... and eventually progress.
