6105 won't start

[Macca_75]

Hi Roger,

I'm hoping you can help me out here (in Aus).

I have 4 x 6105's running off a 7096 controller.

For the past 6 weeks or so I have had internittent issues with at least 1 not starting (and I can't put the fault to any particular piece of the chain).

I gave 2 x pumps a vinegar bath 2 nights ago (straight vinegar dip for 3 hours) (they came up like brand new pumps)
The other 2 are hidden in rocks so a light scrub with a toothbrush was all that was required.

All 4 units look fine visually with no damage (other than 2 of the props where some frozen food went through - these are not on the unit that won't start this time.)

I have confirmed it is not the PSU by swapping - the fault remains with the pump.

I swapped impellor assembly (including the shaft, rubber grommets and little spacer at the bottom - the fault remained.

Last night when trying the plug it in again I noticed the little light behind the jumper seemed to be flickering - begining to think it is a symptom of the pump not running (all 4 PSU's are now the slimline model - 2 with a white sticker and 2 with a black if that makes any difference). I have also tried both 18v and 24v jumpers.

I can turn the impellor by hand without any noticable friction or rubbing.

Based on past recent experiences if I pull the pump from the rock, give it a quick freshwater clean and put it back together it should work OK. (it was only cleaned 2 days ago so not sure what difference this is making)

The pumps are of varying age - between 2 and 3 years old (young).

I suspect, but can't confirm, that it may have stopped when the controller sent it into night mode as it was the next mroning I noticed it had stopped.

Any idea's?

 

[Macca_75]

Hi Roger,

I couldn't update the original post so I will add a (disapointing) update.

I have posted this same question on our local forum here is Aus but am yet to receive an answer from the Tunze importer. I'm not sure if you are able to offer something in addition to anything Graeme may be able to given you probably see a lot more product sales in the US than Graeme would ni Aus.

Here's the update.

Afternoon Graeme,

One of the 6105's I purchased from you (would be out of warranty now I'd suspect) is not working.

I have:
Cleaned the pump. No build up of any sort visable to the eye now.
Used a know good PSU from another pump. The fault remains with the pump.
Used an implellor assembly from a known working pump. The fault remains.
Changed the front housing back to the standard housing. It did have the wide flow shroud.

The impellor seems to spin freely enough (compered to other pumps) and I can't feel any catching or similar.

When i first plug it in it works for about 5 seconds then shuts off. Subsequent attempts of unpluging and plugging back in let it run for a second or so before it stops.

Any idea's? I suppose all thats left is either the motor block or the little connector on the end (that connects to the PSU, controller, etc).

Regards

**EDIT**
I now have 2 pumps that have failed.

The original pump. I have noticed that there is a slight scoring in the barrel where the impellor sits that seems to align with the top of the magnet of the impellor. Could having the pump in the rock have anything to do with it (as the weight of the pump is supported by the shroud, whereas in a bracket the weight is supported by the bracket?) I noticed that the shroud has a little movement and was loose (it has worn out where it attaches to the motor body - it's the cage on the body that has worn - the clips on the shroud seem OK). I have since replaced it with another shroud. When I try and turn it on the pump now it twitches like it is trying to start but can't. Once again it seems to move freely by hand.

The second pump that failed tonight also has a slight scoring in the barrel - same position. It has also spent it's life in a rock, but is slightly newer. The shroud still seemed like a tight fit on this one.

Given my other pumps (held by brackets) don't show any signs of this I really suspect that long term use in the rocks may have contributed. Your thoughts here? My tank was recently moved. Could the wearing have occured in the past, but when I took them out of the rocks, cleaned them and placed them back into the rocks caused this? A slightly different orientation in the rock for example?

Neither of the impellors seem to show any signs of damage.

More importantly how do I go about fixing this? I don't want to shell out for a new motor unless I can have a high level of confidence it will fix the issue.

Any information of help would be appreciated.

Regards.

 

[Macca_75]

Hi Roger,

I couldn't update the original post so I will add a (disapointing) update.

I have posted this same question on our local forum here is Aus but am yet to receive an answer from the Tunze importer. I'm not sure if you are able to offer something in addition to anything Graeme may be able to given you probably see a lot more product sales in the US than Graeme would in Aus.

Here's the update.

Afternoon Graeme,

One of the 6105's I purchased from you (would be out of warranty now I'd suspect) is not working.

I have:
Cleaned the pump. No build up of any sort visable to the eye now.
Used a know good PSU from another pump. The fault remains with the pump.
Used an implellor assembly from a known working pump. The fault remains.
Changed the front housing back to the standard housing. It did have the wide flow shroud.

The impellor seems to spin freely enough (compered to other pumps) and I can't feel any catching or similar.

When i first plug it in it works for about 5 seconds then shuts off. Subsequent attempts of unpluging and plugging back in let it run for a second or so before it stops.

Any idea's? I suppose all thats left is either the motor block or the little connector on the end (that connects to the PSU, controller, etc).

Regards

**EDIT**
I now have 2 pumps that have failed.

The original pump. I have noticed that there is a slight scoring in the barrel where the impellor sits that seems to align with the top of the magnet of the impellor. Could having the pump in the rock have anything to do with it (as the weight of the pump is supported by the shroud, whereas in a bracket the weight is supported by the bracket?) I noticed that the shroud has a little movement and was loose (it has worn out where it attaches to the motor body - it's the cage on the body that has worn - the clips on the shroud seem OK). I have since replaced it with another shroud. When I try and turn it on the pump now it twitches like it is trying to start but can't. Once again it seems to move freely by hand.

The second pump that failed tonight also has a slight scoring in the barrel - same position. It has also spent it's life in a rock, but is slightly newer. The shroud still seemed like a tight fit on this one.

Given my other pumps (held by brackets) don't show any signs of this I really suspect that long term use in the rocks may have contributed. Your thoughts here? My tank was recently moved. Could the wearing have occured in the past, but when I took them out of the rocks, cleaned them and placed them back into the rocks caused this? A slightly different orientation in the rock for example?

Neither of the impellors seem to show any signs of damage.

More importantly how do I go about fixing this? I don't want to shell out for a new motor unless I can have a high level of confidence it will fix the issue.

Any information of help would be appreciated.

Regards.

 

[rvitko]

The warranty is 2 years from date of purchase. I would first check that the drive units are not jammed, what is frequently overlooked is that the metal shaft is a static part, the drive magnet and propeller must be free to spin on the shaft. If the magnet is seized to the shaft, it may intermittently be able to drag the shaft but will sense the overload eventually and do a safety shut down and occasionally try to restart. If the drive magnet and propeller cannot be removed from the shaft, this would be the likely culprit.

A dead motor is possible, and for sure a new one would fix it. Regarding the stream rock, it is possible if the cover was not fully engaged or came loose that the propeller could scratch the front housing, such damage would be only cosmetic and so long as the cover is now properly engaged, it shouldn't continue. A missing blue bushing could also cause this by allowing the shaft to wobble. In the condition I describe in the first paragraph where the shaft is being dragged, it will eventually burn out the blue bushing since it is spinning in the blue bushing, they will wear substantially and even fully disintegrate. It is also possible that a foreign object entered and was dragged by the spinning propeller and caused the scratches.

 

[Macca_75]

Thanks Roger,

Without checking the records I'm pretty sure it would be more than 2 years.

It is not the blue prop that has been dragging, but the top of the magnet inside the motor block. I suspect this is a symptom as the housing hasn't been worn through and is still water tight.

I'll try running the pumps out of the rock tonight as I suspect the pumps "hanging" in the rock by the shroud is twisting the whole assembly, thus causing this shaft to be "mis aligned"

Thanks

 

[rvitko]

It really should be sent in for repair, without seeing it this would be tough to diagnose further.

 

[Macca_75]

Thanks - Graeme is back in Aus and I will be calling him Monday.

As a side note - here's what I replied to Graeme with this morning.

Thanks Graeme - I can wait until Monday.

As an update, I moved on of the pumps out of the rock and back into the magnet holder. Started first time and has run overnight no issues.

I couldn't try the second as I must have broken one of the ears of the clip when I pulled it from the magnet, but time permitting I will swap them over today.

I tried reseating it back in the rock with no luck. I really think for whatever reason the rock is twisting the body somehow. Not sure why it has started now - but has defintely seen since pulling the pumps from the rock and giving them a vinegar bath (I suspect I am not positioning them in the rock in exactly the same orietation.

Don't get me wrong - I love the rocks to hide the pumps but if this makes them less reliable.....

I'm also game to try the controller again.

Talk Monday and thanks.