630 Gallon Acrylic Inwall Build

L

lightemup619

New member
Hello guys my name is Shawn ive been in this hobby for about 5 yrs i have a 130 saltwater at my house. I like it so much i want to start my own business building tanks i have built 2 of them 1 20g and the other 75g, but i have a opportunity to make a 630g 96 x 36 x 42 out of 1 inch acrylic for a new client im a little nervous making it cause its a lot of water and its going into a $3 million home i posted a pic of where he wants it. Its going in between where the arch is i could use some suggestions on what the best way to run and set up this tank? I could also use some tricks of the trade on getting a bubble free joint to. In the pic the tank is gonna sit where the bar stools are at, we are gonna have to demo the bar area to make the stand should i use steel frame or wood my dad is a contractor he said if we use 4x4 it will hold the weight im open to any suggestions the project is still like a month away so i got time
 

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You are going to need a structural engineer since this is in the middle of the room and I assume there is a basement underneath. You are talking about the weight of two cars on a 32sq foot space. Both to shore up the floor and that wall may need some special considerations.

Building a 630 gallon tank is not even on the same planet as your 20 and 75g. If you build this and it fails, you WILL get sued for a LOT of money. So make sure you have liability insurance.

I also suggest putting everything you can in a sump in the basement. So plan on this tank and another below. Most of the maintenance can be done from below as well.

I'd love to keep track of this project so please post regularly.
 
Hi Shawn for general knowledge and plenty of good tips on working with Acrylic your best bet would be to look at the
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1056956
Thread. There's lots of good advice on producing good joints. 630 gallons of saltwater plus the weight of the tank I'm ballparking at around 6400 Lbs. Ask your dad how much the stand would weigh and thrown in any extras like sump lights. Well braced 4x4 should be able to support this with no problem but as was mentioned by fishgate my big concern would be the floor. If it's cement slab probably not an issue. I will be tackling a similar project when I renovate my Kitchen next year. I have a pass through that I plan on converting into a tank wall that can be viewed from the front and the back. I'll be using a smaller tank and I have a cement slab floor, which is the norm for most of Florida. Please keep on posting because I will be following and taking notes.
 
40" of water at that span is really pushing 1".. would recommend 1.25", at least on the front and back.
1" will hold water if you do your part, but will bow over time and the bracing necessary may limit your lighting possibilities.
1" for the top and bottom and ends is perfectly fine though :)

James
 
Hey thanks for the advise guys and fishguy I live in arizona so no basement its on a concrete slab. I was thinking of building a seperate room for the filtration. And acrylics I was kinda planning on 1.25 for the front but the back is going to be black acrylic do you think 1" woulld still be ok or do 1.25 for that to
 
If I were you I would get the tank made by someone who specializes in it,There should be plenty of profit to be made in the framing, cabinetry, plumbing, etc.

If this were your own house, I'd say go for it, and even then, I'd recommend keeping the tank in the garage for a few months just in case. A 75 gallon tank is childsplay compared to this, so your prior experience, while better than none at all, won't help you much here. It's easy and cheap to overbuild a 75 gallon tank to make up for any deficiencies. Not so with 1"+ acrylic.
 
bongarone said:
If I were you I would get the tank made by someone who specializes in it,There should be plenty of profit to be made in the framing, cabinetry, plumbing, etc.

If this were your own house, I'd say go for it, and even then, I'd recommend keeping the tank in the garage for a few months just in case. A 75 gallon tank is childsplay compared to this, so your prior experience, while better than none at all, won't help you much here. It's easy and cheap to overbuild a 75 gallon tank to make up for any deficiencies. Not so with 1"+ acrylic.
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i have to say +1 to this... as well as the advice to get insurance. Sure, insurance will cover your butt if it does fail but no amount of insurance will ever be able to cover your reputation. If you plan on building "this" into a company then you simply can't afford the lack of experience and the bad rep you would get if something, even minor does happen. What i would do, is search for an experienced builder to put the tank together but have your involvement in the build be part of the deal, that way you can learn while you're at it.

I've heard some talk lately of not using open sumps for tanks of this size... may want to do some research in that area as well. For a tank of this size it sounds like a lot of people are pluming things like the skimmer and other components into closed loop style systems. This should help in evaporation ect. Oh, on that note don't forget about ventilation... don't want to ruin a 3million dollar home due to mold/moisture.

Gosh, you have a ton of work to do in only a month. may sound like a lot of time but for a build of this size, you should have really solid plan in place as it will cost a lot of time and money to decide you have to change things mid way through...

I assume this is going to be a reef tank??? I'm not sure if Reefbruh is on RC or not but he may be a good one to tap on for some advice, he's in the middle of a similar build right now.

This is pretty cool stuff, keep us in the loop and i'm sure we're all willing to put in our .02.
 
Hello guys thanks for all your input!! i have been thinking of getting a expert to build the tank but i know i can build it!! but i wouldnt want that chance of it failing on me and i dont want that bad reputation if im just barely starting my business and yessss iam definately getting insurance. i guess i will wait till i do a more regular size tanks before i try something that big but the opportunity happen to come as im just starting out damn it!!! lol but i guess im looking at the savings if i do it myself but like bongarone said their is alot of profit to be made i dont want to get greedy!!! i really havent called around to get a quote on this tank anyone have any ideas on how much it will be??
 
I admire your plan to turn a passion into a business. But please, this is more than just building/filling boxes of water and plugging in some storefront filters. Along with all of the sage advice already shared, I might add, that you are not building a tank like that yourself anyway. The front and back panels are way too big to handle yourself, you will need a lift, installation will require at least 6 men, and equipment and some sort of entry plan to protect floors. Then there is the bonding... this isnt your weldon 4 with a bead of 16. When dealing with material that thick, even an awesome router is undersized. As suggested, subcontract the tank building and be the "expert". Put your experience to tuning the right system, making it easy for the customer to understand and work with, pay attention to the "what ifs"... shut offs, maintenence processes, scheduled and unscheduled, humidity, clear and simple programming of power center, scratches, the list is endless. We have all had the luxury of growing our systems over years. A client may not want to "buy" into that type of organic growth. It may not be a hobby for them... its may be just a feature in their home... they just want it to work.
 
hebygb said:
Put your experience to tuning the right system, making it easy for the customer to understand and work with, pay attention to the "what ifs"... shut offs, maintenence processes, scheduled and unscheduled, humidity, clear and simple programming of power center, scratches, the list is endless. We have all had the luxury of growing our systems over years. A client may not want to "buy" into that type of organic growth. It may not be a hobby for them... its may be just a feature in their home... they just want it to work.
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well said
 
+1 for attempting.

But I wouldn't put a 600g tank in my house built by someone that built 2 tiny tanks in the past. Not even if it was free. not even in my 500K home.

I understand that you gotta take risk to win big. If you make it thru this one, you'll have a solid portfolio for your company. But if you trip, it'll be the end of your name and possibly alot of money lost, that you'll have a hard to recovering from.

Beside building the actual tank, there's a lot more to a system that you have to plan, design and build. Plus maintain in order to successfully house beautiful living sea creatures.

How happy would you client be after he gets his 600g+ tank dead centered in his living room to show off his algae covered rocks and sand and glass? and then you tell him, you gotta pay me X thousands of dollar to take it all out?

Anyways, good luck. Babies need to learn to crawl before they can stand up and walk. So should building tanks.
 
Yeah, i don't think this is outside your ability to plan out, build (not the tank), and maintain. That said it definately wouldn't hurt to find someone with more experience to partner up with on this. It'll will help you, your client, and your company. Two heads are better than one. Sure, you have us to help but i don't think we could replace the value of an onsite guru. Have you had any luck finding a tank builder yet? How bout other plans, plumbing, elec, ventilation, etc. Oh and Structural! can't do a damn thing until you know it wont just fall through the floor... even if it's a slab, need to make sure its thick enough...
 
Haters gonna hate. If your willing to throw yourself out there, it will be a sink or swim situation. I would agree that building a 20 and 75 are not even in the same realm as a 650. I have built small acrylic tanks but I have no idea how I would assemble something so heavy and large. You would need a good shop for sure, but I am sure you already know that. As others have mentioned, this is of a size where simply handling the materials requires specialized equipment/process.

If you are really passionate about physically building tanks, then this is your shot. Do it right. Most people would have a hard time even finding a client willing to pony up for something like that. If the man with the money is willing to take a chance on you, who are we to say you can't do it? If your tank ends up popping a panel in the middle of his living room, well... then I guess you can assume it wasn't your calling :D

Also look into your profit for setting up everything and building the tank vs. buying the tank and acting as a consultant. You may find that the profit margin hardly justifies setting up a shop to handle such a massive project.
 
lightemup619 said:
and yessss iam definately getting insurance.
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I wouldn't be so sure. This type of coverage would probably fall into product liability, which is ridiculously expensive. Tens of thousands per year expensive with a deductible in the tens of thousands.

You don't need it anyway. Play it smart, build the cabinetry and let someone else tank care of the tank (and the liability associated with it).
 
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lightemup619 said:
... I was kinda planning on 1.25 for the front but the back is going to be black acrylic do you think 1" woulld still be ok or do 1.25 for that to
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Depends on your reasoning, and to some extent - your overflows. If you're doing 1.25" on the front so that we can have less bracing on top - then it makes no sense to *not* have 1.25" on back as well.

If you're doing 1.25" on front simply to reduce deflection and more top bracing is ok - then 1" on back is fine.

Depending on the style and location of the overflows - 1" might be good for the back as overflows *can* add a lot of rigidity to the back wall. Eg., a coast to coast overflow will add a lot of rigidity so 1" would be perfect, but a corner overflow wouldn't add much strength at all.

Also know that 1" black is readily available, but 1.25" black is not as readily available and commonly special order with minimums you must buy. So could be much more expensive - several thousand $$ more.

To me, the perfect solution is 1.25" on front, 1" black on back and a coast to coast overflow. This will give you the best of all possibilities, best surface skimming, highest strength, lots of top bracing/lighting options, and reduced deflection. All of this = reduced stress on the tank and on you..

Whomever builds your tank; mandate a top brand of acrylic, such as Polycast, as not all of them are equal..

As for you building it v. having it built; I'd strongly encourage you to have it built by a good mfr. The tank will weigh ~700lbs and will need to be moved and flipped several times, will require a sizable investment in worktable(s) and tooling for you to build, and will have several thousand $$ in material so you *can't* make a mistake. I'd let someone else take that risk, it's what they do for a living.. but JMO :)

HTH,
James
 
I like the idea of a coast to coast over flow as well...I think he mentioned that this back wall would be up against another so there would be all kinds of support for that... Shame though a tank this size should be viewable on at least 3 sides if not all 4. Though that would kill the c2c idea
 
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