700 gallon tank, or how i spent my daughters inheritance
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UnderwaterMike
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That's great news that it's stopped. have you found the cause of this yet?
Reefski's
Active member
i made some modifications to the turf scrubber setup. the Mag 12 pump had some bald spots in the spray bar so i changed it out to a Mag 24.
the darker spots are real turf algae that was started from the very small clumps so i guess it is actually many times more than it was a few weeks ago.
i made a glass shield so i could drop the lamp into the middle of the screens.
it has been showing some growth over the weeks but i think it may pick up now. the new bulb is 400 watt 4000Kelvin.
PO4 is still high. i will measure tomorrow. i am feeding a lot.
the darker spots are real turf algae that was started from the very small clumps so i guess it is actually many times more than it was a few weeks ago.
i made a glass shield so i could drop the lamp into the middle of the screens.
it has been showing some growth over the weeks but i think it may pick up now. the new bulb is 400 watt 4000Kelvin.
PO4 is still high. i will measure tomorrow. i am feeding a lot.
Reefski's
Active member
here is some turf growing on the returns in my tank. totally out of the water. gets a little water on part of the sides with the flow.
i am getting more growth on the screens than i thought. i thought it was all slimy stuff but there is quite a bit of real algae.
i have not cleaned them. i think they have a ways to go before the algae is grown in.
PO4 was 0.41ppm this morning with the Hanna C200 i know this is still very high.
Nitrate was 7ppm
and now for the bad news-maybe. i went outside this morning to do the chores and saw this.
<img src="http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/reefski/DSC08521.jpg">
the water level had dropped 15"+ overnight and the corals were all exposed to the air for hours. about 60 degrees overnight. the pump that was pumping water just about vertical had shifted and was pumping into the overflow which was not set up to return water to the tank. so it just sloshed out of the tank until the pump ran dry.
i don't know how long they were exposed like this. the heater was still submerged so the temp of the remaining water was still where it should be.
i immediately pumped water from the main system into the barrel to replace what was lost, refilling the main system from the NSW cistern. i think about 100 gallons.
so far everything looks pretty good. the coralites are paler than they were.
i think i will leave them where they are for a few more days and see how they do.
i am getting more growth on the screens than i thought. i thought it was all slimy stuff but there is quite a bit of real algae.
i have not cleaned them. i think they have a ways to go before the algae is grown in.
PO4 was 0.41ppm this morning with the Hanna C200 i know this is still very high.
Nitrate was 7ppm
and now for the bad news-maybe. i went outside this morning to do the chores and saw this.
<img src="http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/reefski/DSC08521.jpg">
the water level had dropped 15"+ overnight and the corals were all exposed to the air for hours. about 60 degrees overnight. the pump that was pumping water just about vertical had shifted and was pumping into the overflow which was not set up to return water to the tank. so it just sloshed out of the tank until the pump ran dry.
i don't know how long they were exposed like this. the heater was still submerged so the temp of the remaining water was still where it should be.
i immediately pumped water from the main system into the barrel to replace what was lost, refilling the main system from the NSW cistern. i think about 100 gallons.
so far everything looks pretty good. the coralites are paler than they were.
i think i will leave them where they are for a few more days and see how they do.
Ian
I <3 Corals!
Carl, I had the same problem with the NSW I was using. Id get random RTN, with a green skeleton, for what seemed no reason at all. I believe the green on the acro skeleton is called phosphate 'wicking.' It happens when the coral skeleton absorbs a high ammount of phosphate which causes the coral to RTN...
UnderwaterMike
New member
Curses to that law... whom ever it was 
, but anywho it doesn't look too bad
, but anywho it doesn't look too bad
Reefski's
Active member
Ian:
here is what Eric Borneman had to say-
"I think the other advice about PO4 wicking is ridiculous (no offense to the well-meaning person who offered it) and the use of NSW in killing corals also about as far away from what is the likely issue as can be. This one has potential, but there are literally dozens or hundreds of things I would exhaust before considering that. Of course, a microscope would help. Samples would help. Experiments using other tanks would help with fragments of the same coral (and others)."
Acro update- it looks like they are going to make it. they are still looking good after the night in the air at 60 degrees. the air might have been warmer semi enclosed over the 80 degree water. i don't think it was windy at all that night.
no full tank shots yet.
i have hooked up the light rails over the tank running 2 400 watt halides for three hours into the evening.
i hope he isn't hurting the coral.
i am having some trouble with high PO4 and swinging alkalinity. i changed the GFO and alk that is usually 10-11dKH dropped to 7, i added too much Baking Soda and it is now 14 dKH.
should turn off the Ca reactor until the levels come down?
i think but don't know if the tissue loss is from the changing levels or not. what do you think?
this one is showing some tip burn and yet others are fine including the clones of the RTN one.
Carl
here is what Eric Borneman had to say-
"I think the other advice about PO4 wicking is ridiculous (no offense to the well-meaning person who offered it) and the use of NSW in killing corals also about as far away from what is the likely issue as can be. This one has potential, but there are literally dozens or hundreds of things I would exhaust before considering that. Of course, a microscope would help. Samples would help. Experiments using other tanks would help with fragments of the same coral (and others)."
Acro update- it looks like they are going to make it. they are still looking good after the night in the air at 60 degrees. the air might have been warmer semi enclosed over the 80 degree water. i don't think it was windy at all that night.
no full tank shots yet.
i have hooked up the light rails over the tank running 2 400 watt halides for three hours into the evening.
i hope he isn't hurting the coral.
i am having some trouble with high PO4 and swinging alkalinity. i changed the GFO and alk that is usually 10-11dKH dropped to 7, i added too much Baking Soda and it is now 14 dKH.
should turn off the Ca reactor until the levels come down?
i think but don't know if the tissue loss is from the changing levels or not. what do you think?
this one is showing some tip burn and yet others are fine including the clones of the RTN one.
Carl
Ian
I <3 Corals!
Borneman has much more Knowledge than me, no doubt about that. What I can say that I have that he doesn't is DIRECT expirence with the situation. I had the EXACT same thing in my tank, RTN and green skeleton(phos wicking). A friend of mines Dad does some sort of maintence near the inlet for the source of the UCSB NSW and said depending on currents, you may get something from off shore or you may get run off from the near by slew.
Since changing from the NSW to salt mix and RO/DI, Im now at .02 po4 and it shows in both my color and growth. Im 10 minutes from the source of the water. If it was pure enough for my low nutrient sps tank with thousands invested(nothing compared to yours) trust me, Id use it...
I don't doubt Eric Bournemans vast knowledge of marine biology but without having used this particular source of water, or even extensively testing it, I personally can't trust his opinion, IN THIS MATTER, with my multi thousand dollar investment... Before you put all of your eggs, or money and reef life, in one mans basket, do an RC search on 'phosphate wicking' and see for your self... You seem to take a lot of advise from Eric, why not send him a sample of the water, as he requested, to put under a microscope and extensively test. Again, you never know if you're getting an offshore sample or one contaminated by the nearby slew. As Greg C says, stability promotes success...
Trust me Carl, Im not looking to be right, I just want to see your massive creation THRIVE! The proof is in the pudding. Ive done both and unfortunately, UCSB NSW is NOT suitable for an SPS tank...
With all of the money invested in your system, why not invest another $200 into some salt and see for your self... It DEFINATELY couldn't hurt... Good luck and please keep me/us posted...
Since changing from the NSW to salt mix and RO/DI, Im now at .02 po4 and it shows in both my color and growth. Im 10 minutes from the source of the water. If it was pure enough for my low nutrient sps tank with thousands invested(nothing compared to yours) trust me, Id use it...
I don't doubt Eric Bournemans vast knowledge of marine biology but without having used this particular source of water, or even extensively testing it, I personally can't trust his opinion, IN THIS MATTER, with my multi thousand dollar investment... Before you put all of your eggs, or money and reef life, in one mans basket, do an RC search on 'phosphate wicking' and see for your self... You seem to take a lot of advise from Eric, why not send him a sample of the water, as he requested, to put under a microscope and extensively test. Again, you never know if you're getting an offshore sample or one contaminated by the nearby slew. As Greg C says, stability promotes success...
Trust me Carl, Im not looking to be right, I just want to see your massive creation THRIVE! The proof is in the pudding. Ive done both and unfortunately, UCSB NSW is NOT suitable for an SPS tank...
With all of the money invested in your system, why not invest another $200 into some salt and see for your self... It DEFINATELY couldn't hurt... Good luck and please keep me/us posted...
Reefski's
Active member
thanks Ian-
my system has about 1500 gallons of water. that would be a lot of salt buckets, and much more than $200.
i too want my system to thrive.
maybe i am feeding the fish too much for the system. the fish are very healthy though.
i will take some pix of the daily feeding amounts and post them.
i am thinking of selling my big truck and if i did i couldn't go to UCSB anymore. the cost savings in not having the truck would buy a lot of salt. of course i do use the truck for much more than getting NSW from UCSB.
i am not sure Eric was suggesting that he get involved in testing my water or doing any microscopic work.
the water i am using is sitting in my cistern and continually circulating with a mag12 pump.
i have not seen any others post to the UCSB thread about their bad experiences they think are from the water. corals grow in tropical areas much closer to the coast with runoff and all than the half mile out the UCSB water is collected from.
can you show us before and after pix of your tank? how long ago did you switch away from the NSW?
Carl
my system has about 1500 gallons of water. that would be a lot of salt buckets, and much more than $200.
i too want my system to thrive.
maybe i am feeding the fish too much for the system. the fish are very healthy though.
i will take some pix of the daily feeding amounts and post them.
i am thinking of selling my big truck and if i did i couldn't go to UCSB anymore. the cost savings in not having the truck would buy a lot of salt. of course i do use the truck for much more than getting NSW from UCSB.
i am not sure Eric was suggesting that he get involved in testing my water or doing any microscopic work.
the water i am using is sitting in my cistern and continually circulating with a mag12 pump.
i have not seen any others post to the UCSB thread about their bad experiences they think are from the water. corals grow in tropical areas much closer to the coast with runoff and all than the half mile out the UCSB water is collected from.
can you show us before and after pix of your tank? how long ago did you switch away from the NSW?
Carl
erics3000
Active member
I remember reading something about big swings in alk or kalk might actually burn animals if dosed close to them. Thats why they say it is better to dose in sump so it helps dilute Not sure if thats what happen for you. but if that is true than it might be possible. So many variabless...But what do I know .. so little knowledge and expierence...hahahhaah. I can breed aptashia and feather dusters good though..
Ian
I <3 Corals!
The $200 could buy you 450 gallons of salt mix. I used that number because it would be a good start to observe any positive difference it would have.
I dont think anyone is posting negative about the water because no one trying to keep sps is using it. While my sps looked and grew like crap, my chalices, acans, favias and micros did very well. They looked nice and grew well. I just don't think its up to par in an sps system...
Unfortunately, I dont have any before pix because I was so frusterated with their beautiful brown appearance I do know that I have a few tyree pieces that Ive always known to be brown, are turning purple, blue, etc... I hated to get new frags because I knew they'd soon turn brown. Since getting off the NSW, Ive got 10+ frags and they've all held their color...
Carl, I know how welcome you are to others in your house. If you decide to continue to drive to UCSB, Id like to offer to you to stop by. Next trip, pm me and Ill give you a ph. # and addy...
I dont think anyone is posting negative about the water because no one trying to keep sps is using it. While my sps looked and grew like crap, my chalices, acans, favias and micros did very well. They looked nice and grew well. I just don't think its up to par in an sps system...
Unfortunately, I dont have any before pix because I was so frusterated with their beautiful brown appearance
I do know that I have a few tyree pieces that Ive always known to be brown, are turning purple, blue, etc... I hated to get new frags because I knew they'd soon turn brown. Since getting off the NSW, Ive got 10+ frags and they've all held their color...Carl, I know how welcome you are to others in your house. If you decide to continue to drive to UCSB, Id like to offer to you to stop by. Next trip, pm me and Ill give you a ph. # and addy...
UnderwaterMike
New member
LMAO
I do agree with Ian though, it wouldn't hurt to run some close tests based off the diff in water quality and save your investm... i mean daughters inheritance.
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