9 yr old Haddoni sick-help please?

[DLBerlin]

I have a problem with my Haddoni and 2 "Flower anemones" that started in mid-January.
I have had the Haddoni for 9 years, the gold flower for about 7 years and the orange flower for about 6 months. Tank is a 300g mixed reef with a 120g sump/fuge and a small frag tank plumbed in. All other livestock doing great.
I have already asked Borneman and Shimek, neither know whats going on or how to stop it.
I'm hoping someone here has an idea how to stop this?
Rather than re-type it all, here's the posts from Shimeks forum:



2-18-07
Do you have any idea what can cause anemones to get large flesh "bubbles" protruding from the mouth area?
I have had these 2 for several years now, and they just developed this in the last month. I have been doing lots of waterchanges, running polyfilters, lots of carbon with no real difference. It also looks like another Flower anemone in the tank is starting to do this.

All tests are normal-ph 8.0-8.4, calcium 410, alk 3-3.5 meq/l, salinity 1.026, temp 81, ammonia and nitrite 0, nitrate less than 5, orp around 350

Mid January I had a problem:
Foot valve on the CO2 line failed. Water backed up into the bubble counter etc.. all with brass fittings. Anemone looked like it did when the copper from a dime found underneath it about killed it, so I checked the water in the bubble counter-salinity 1.020 and copper 2.0, this was mixing with tank water for I dont know how long before I found it. Tank itself didnt show copper on a test.
Crushed some of the carbon I put in the weekend before and ran some ro/DI water thru it-tested positive for copper but just enough carbon dust to not know the level exactly-def change to blue though. Things had been looking off for several days, anemone looked bad for 3 days. The Carpet which normally spawned approximatly every 9 weeks has spawned 3 times in a 3 week period, and the flower anemone spawned with it once. Thats when the carpet started to devolop this, and the flower anemone about a week ago.
All fish, inverts and corals in the system seem fine.
I would appreciate any input or ideas on what to do? I have had the Haddoni for 9 years now and would hate to lose it. I am thinking it's probably a bacterial infection?
Debbie




Update 2-24-07
Carpet now has a softball size protrusion from its mouth at all times and is at times refusing food.
Gold flower anemone still has just the peanut sized bubble, and now the orange flower is gaping. Water changes are making no difference at all. Parameters are great and nothing else is affected. Sand anemone is fine, and RBTA's in the refuge/frag tank are fine. Seems to be affecting just these three.

I have done several 75-100g waterchanges, and tested everything repeatedly and cannot find anything wrong with the system, and the anemones continue to get worse.
Help?
Debbie

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

I don't know what those other fellas replied, but here's where I'd start:
how do you check for specific gravity- with a refracto or hydrometer?
Triple/quadruple check the Specific gravity of your water using different instruments. Make sure to correct for temp if using a floating hydrometer.
Is the temperature of the new water brought up before introducing it to your system?

Are the RBTA's interconnected to the same water the stressed anemones are in? How long have you had them?

JMO but I don't suspect a bacterial infection based on what I see...

 

[DLBerlin]

Hi Gary
I use a refractometer calibrated with 35ppt reference solution. I did have a low salinity incident this year that caused many problems, but the anemones didnt start this till a few months after that was fixed.
Salinity is 1.026
Temp and salinity matched before a water change, and new water is mixed for at least 24hrs before a change.
RBTA's are now in the inter-connected frag tank, but were in a separate system when this started. Carbon, polyfilters, and Ozone are used also, and system is heavily skimmed.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

have you tried shutting down the O3 for an extended length of time (a week)?

 

[DLBerlin]

No I havent.
I have been running it for a long time, and ORP was running avg 350 till the anemone started spawning. Then it dropped to about 300 for a few weeks and is now back up to around 320. It's an Ozotech Poseidon Jr. 100 mg-hr ozone generator on Milwaukee controller and tank is 300g + about 100g in sump/fuge so it runs pretty much 24/7

Just re-tested everything-
All Salifert tests
Alk 9.3
Calcium 430
Magnesium 1470
Po4 0
NO3 2
NO2 0
NH4 0
pH 8.1 -Pinpoint controller
temp 81- Ranco controller
Salinity 1.026 just calibrated

 

[Slakker]

Have you done any water changes since the anemone spawn? I've heard that can cause some serious problems with other things in the tank.

 

[DLBerlin]

I have done several large waterchanges.
The anemone has been swpaning every 9-11 weeks for a couple years now, but when this started it spawned 3 times in 3 weeks.

 

[shutiny]

It must be hard to watch your animals suffering. I wished I could help. Some thing is going on in your tank, but what?

For now, I would place the anemones in a another established tank until the tank regains stability and what ever the issues is resolved. Some times, it just takes time for things to change for the better. Good luck.

 

[Slakker]

They're already stressed...I don't know if moving them would really be all that beneficial either...I guess you take a risk one way or the other.

 

[DLBerlin]

I dont have another tank to move them too, and I dont know anyone with room for the Carpet. It is refusing all food now, and not expanding fully.
The flower anemones however do look a little better today I think.

 

[Amphiprion]

That is about how often my sebae spawns--9-11 weeks. Mine has had 'bubbles' similar to the one in the flower anemone without any issues, but nothing along the lines of what your S. haddoni has. You have already been doing everything I would have recommended. Have you searched any part of your tank/equipment that could be leaching metals, an algae magnet?

 

[DLBerlin]

I have been over evrything dozens of times. tested everything to death

 

[55semireef]

I have no idea what your anemones have. I know Gary said he didn't suspect one but I would look into bacterial infections. You never know.

 

[cschweitzer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9334072#post9334072 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dberlin
I dont have another tank to move them too, and I dont know anyone with room for the Carpet. It is refusing all food now, and not expanding fully.
The flower anemones however do look a little better today I think.

If nothing is working in the tank they are in now, this may be the only logical solution to get them away from whatever is doing it. Can you go buy a 30G tank to set up and throw him into? It may stress it a little, but if it's not eating, growing cyst-like formations, and has not done this in 9+ years, I would be worried enough to move him. Doesn't sound like it's getting better on its own.

Sorry I can't help with any answers, but I did think the move it reply was the best advice that could be given...you know if borneman and shimek can't answer you, it is something that is odd.

No heavy metal leaching? Do you have test kits for heavy metals?

 

[shutiny]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9331334#post9331334 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Slakker
They're already stressed...I don't know if moving them would really be all that beneficial either...I guess you take a risk one way or the other.

Normally, I belive that would be true. In this case, Debbie got two different genus(may be three hard to be sure), and they all have the same symptoms and all in the same tank.

In my personal experiences and findings, pathogens/ disease/or infection are specie specific. I believe there is a route /pathways for transmission and for metabolism. First example I could think of is the acropora eating flat warm, in which it attacks certain species of acro but not others.

May be the tank has things(organic, inorganic) accumulated /mutated pathogens that are capable of attacking different species of anemones that developed over the past 9 years. In this case, I would still want to removed the animals from the source of higher concentration- the 9 year old tank, on to a lesser concentration- the new tank.

 

[Flighty]

Have you looked at a comon food source as a sourse of infection? That is my only idea.

I would keep an eye out for necrotic brown or disolving tissue, but otherwise hope for the best with time and patience.

 

[gradoj]

Do you have an update on how they are doing?

I have a sebae with what looks like the exact same "growth". Please let us know how things are proceeding or if you have found a solution.

 

[maxxII]

Dont know how things are doing, but if its possible its a bacterial infection, I would suggest that you try and get ahold of some doxycycline, (can get it from a vet w/ a prescription), and try a lengthy Dox dip. Joe Yauillo, (sp??) has reccomended dipping nems in Dox for a 24 hour period to fight bacterial infections. he reports good results.

I have a small H.mag that I bought over a year ago this month. Late last year, I bought another H.mag from an online vendor and it came in looking like crap. I was concerned about it so I hurried up and placed it in the tank, where it started looking better. It never really recovered from shipping stress and died. However, as a parting gift, it also infected my healthy H.mag with whatever it had.

I didnt think the sick nem could infect my healthy nem in a healthy system...WRONG.
I waited and hoped for a long while, but the H.mag wasnt getting better at all...finally, at the advice of a LFS that dips all its incoming nems in Dox for 8-12 hours before introducing them to the display tanks, I tried a dip. I used 1 pill (100mgs) in a large specimen container, (nem is smaller), placed that in my main tank for temp control, and added an airstone. (LFS guy uses 1 pill ,100 mgs, in a 5 gallon bucket with a Maxi jet mini behind egg crate to protect the nems from wandering...)
The nem slimed pretty badly at first, the airstone turned the slime into a skimmer. After 6 hours, I did a 100% water change in the container, added a new 100mg pill of dox, and let it sit for another 15 hours in the container.

That was a week ago. The nem looks better than it has in the last two months, (still not great and still back where it should be), but I have seen it eat a little, and its mouth is tightening up.

I debated long and hard before dipping, but looked at it this way...it was definately going to die if I didnt do something, so I really had nothing to lose.

Good luck with this, and I hope it works out for you.

Nick

 

[DLBerlin]

Hi Guys
Still no better.
I have had the ozone off since Gary suggested it. Just turned it back on today.
I'll see if I can get the doxycycline
Anything is worth a shot now.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

are the anemones worse than before?