_TOTW_ Water Flow and Zoanthids

[MiddletonMark]

Topic of the Week: Water Flow and Zoanthids

• 
  What is optimal water movement in your tank which produces the best results in growth, appearance, and expansion?
  
  Is this achieved through random/variable or constant current?
  What devices do you use to achieve this?
  
  How do you judge if a specific Zoanthid is receiving too much or too little?
  
  Can all zoa's + Palys tolerate the same amount of current?
  Do you think that there is such a thing as too much flow for Zoanthids?

 

[MiddletonMark]

I would like to thank mummra for the inspiration for this week's question.

As always, these discussions work as everything on the internet. While we are free to completely disagree, it's only by respecting each other's opinion, ideas and views that this can work.

We're all learning in this hobby, we all do things slightly different -and yet many gain success with different methods. Let's keep this in mind. Remember, the more we learn - the more our zoanthids will thrive.

If you would like to submit your ideas, please submit them here .
For information or suggestings regarding the Topic of the Week, check this thread.

 

[tekknoschtev]

I find the optimal water flow for my zoanthids is the maximum amount of water that can pass over them without causing them to close up. For some zoas, this means the lower flow areas in our 150, and for others, they LOVE being pounded by the flow from our Seio 2600. I dont believe that there is a such thing as too much flow for zoanthids, saving of course, the extremely forceful laminar flow pounding on them. If a wide dispersed flow is passed over a colony, I find its growth and expansion to be excelent and the polyps are full and very healthy looking.

In my tank, this is achieved with a "constant" current deflected off of the walls of the aquarium and other flows in the tank, giving a semi-chaotic flow pattern in areas. not all zoas like the choas, and some prefer (in my tank) very laminar flow.

A zoa is getting too much flow when it closes up. I find that the zoanthids need to be bobbling a bit and if they are remaining static, that it seems like too little flow.

Disclaimer: These are my opinions, take them with a grain of salt (Instant Ocean or otherwise )

 

[Reef Junkie]

Great topic!

I have also had similar experiences with water flow and Zoas.
The Zoas in my tank all seem to love flow, some more then others.

Just like Tek said, stagnant areas in my tank don't support zoas as well as areas with decent current.

My tank has one Tunze 6100 and flow from the return pump.
I could probably use more flow.

 

[mjkn2]

I just adjusted this problem in my tank. I couldn't keep zoos very well. They were not doing well, except a few areas. I upgraded and increased my water flow. Now all my zoos are growing great.

 

[sn8kbit]

My zoos are doing well in mild turbulent flow. I have constant flow from one Seio 620, one modded MJ900, one MJ1200 pushing through a spraybar along the back wall (bottom) and a Closed Loop powered by a Mag 9.5. Most of the currents meet in the middle and "swirl" which gives a back and forth motion to the zoos. I've been getting the best growth in that particular spot. My more "dead" areas, growth is slow, along with thinner skirts. Makes a great acclimation spot, but not to grow in.

I'm pulling all pumps except the MJ 1200 + spraybar, and running a 4 outlet closed loop powered by an Ampmaster 3000 here in the next couple of weeks, so we'll see what addtional flow does for the entire tank.

I'll try to get a couple of pics tomorrow of the two different sides where the difference in flow is obvious.

S

 

[ficklefins]

I never put much thought into how flow may effect zoas. But it seems like I have done changes in my tank without thought.

I've taken zoas from low flow areas to higher flow with a short term effect on the tentacles. The went from being normal to being long. Now this could be because of flow or light but I'm not sure. The zoas I have in high flow areas tend to grow more compact with a mat like distribution.

While the zoas I have in low flow areas really struggle to grow and have zoas spreading in a branch like format similar to palys.

If you don't mind I would like to pose another question. Can the source of flow effect the growth of a zoa? I have some zoas that are under direct flow from a powerhead and others that are blasted from a skimmer return. So can a zoa under cleaner water (skimmer return) grow differently than zoas under power head which is a recirculation device?

 

[mummra100769]

right on cool deal. i look forward to each weeks new topic.

in my exp. i have always had the best results with the absolute highest amount of flow you can get, my now gone 60 gal. had as much as 70-80x an hour. like what has been said above you really want as much flow as they will tolorate with out closing up.they come from the high tidal flow areas of the reef right?

i think one of the problems with zoas is that detritus covers the mat and then it starts to break down the tissue and then it's all over.has any one seen this happen? i can not say every problem i had with zoas came from the detritus build up but more times than not it sure did seem that way.

i have no real exp. on whether clean water or just recirculated water makes a difference.

on another note i would like at some future point have a talk on whether zoas actually ingest food directly or just absord nutients from the water column.

 

[MiddletonMark]

Mummra ... there's a link for email above - please send any and all ideas in. I need more!

 

[tmplge]

I would like to thank everyone who has participated in the discussion and Mucho for bringing the idea around. Before I begin I want to apologize for my typos which I am sure to make.

I am in the same boat as some of you here. Without giving it much thought I have been doing alot of changes to my tank over the past 4 months. One major change in water flow. The flow in my tank is now not as strong as it once was, and this may have resulted in the clsoing and dieing of my zoa's. The bottom part of my tank has very low flow and the rest of the tank is not in a high flow area either. This has resulted in many of my colonies closing up slowly. Deterius building up in their mats and stressing them out. From what I have seen, this may be a reason they are doing poorly. I will try to repipe my tank and get back to everyone about how the higher flow affects them.

One last observation I have made is with my GSP. I have GSP growing in two areas of my tank, they are actualy about 3 inches away from eachother. One is in a low flow area and the other is in a high flow area. The one in the high flow seems to be extending more, shows better coloration and is showing better growth.

This entire time Ive been asking people for advice and not listening to myself. Looks like I may have answered my own question.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Wow, I thought Mark did an excellent job pulling the TOTW together on his own and I'm surprise to see only a few responses to a great topic. No one else wants to share your own thoughts on the topic of current in your system?

Mucho

 

[tmplge]

Here is something I have been trying out, since most of my zoos are in bad shape I have been trying an experiment with my GSP. I have the same colony growing in two differnt spots of the tank (they are very close to eachother though, a few inches apart). ONe of them is affected by current found everywhere in the tank. The other i have put directly in a very high flow area. The flow is concentrated on that frag only. I can safley say that the GSP that is in the higher flow area has about 50% longer skirts than the control GSP found in the regular flow.

I remeber I had similar results with yellow polyps ( yes I am aware the are not zoa's). These same yellow polyps are now in the lowest flow area of the tank and their skirts are the shortest I have ever seen.

Anyone have any results about how flow has affected their zoa's?

 

[CoralNutz]

I have noticed my zoas/palys do best in alternating strong/very strong flow. I have started using those hydor things in frag tank on some MJ's and they zoas LOVE it. They arent' being blasted non-stop but every 20 seconds or so they get a good blast....

 

[Aquatic Hamster]

Do you have a pic of your zoa frag tank with the hydor? I've been thinking about these for a bigger tank.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6870988#post6870988 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CoralNutz
I have noticed my zoas/palys do best in alternating strong/very strong flow. I have started using those hydor things in frag tank on some MJ's and they zoas LOVE it. They arent' being blasted non-stop but every 20 seconds or so they get a good blast....

 

[MUCHO REEF]

"What is optimal water movement in your tank which produces the best results in growth, appearance, and expansion?"

1. Optimal water movement varies from Zooanthid polyp size to large Palythoas. I created my own little scale size of zoo polyp, tiny, small, medium, large and extra large ( Palythoa Grandis). The larger the oral disc, the more current it can tolerate to a certain point of blasting the colony with a powerful burst. Conversely, the smaller the polyp, the less current it can tolerate before it completely retracts and it will stay that way until the current decreases. With current being one of several factors which will influence zoo growth, appearance and expansion, I've found that a variable current is more natural as it simulates the underwater ebb & flow of the ocean. That's not to say that a persistent current won't be as affective.

I"s this achieved through random/variable or constant current?
What devices do you use to achieve this?"

2. I use a variable SCWD with a Mag 9 return, 2 Seio 820's with 2 Maxijet 1200's with a wavemaker. All of the pumps are hidden in the aquascaping and not noticeable from the front of the tank. Every inch of my tank is hit with persistent or random current. Lucky me.

How do you judge if a specific Zoanthid is receiving too much or too little?

3. Constant retraction if it's too much. Often the tentacle length and overall appearance is affected by a lack of current. Detritus will begin to accumulate and the colony will begin to show subtle signs of decline.


Can all zoa's + Palys tolerate the same amount of current?
Do you think that there is such a thing as too much flow for Zoanthids?

4. Palys in general can tolerate more than tiny to medium size zoo polyps. Yes, I do believe that there can be too much current for zoos as is the case with most corals. "Too much" being the optimal word. For example, it's a given that SPS really need lots of high current to strive. If you blast a Green Slimer, you will rip it apart, too much current on xenia and it will be blown like a hurricane hit it and it won't pulse let alone extend completely. Too much current on a colony of shrooms and they will retract and sometime detach from the base of the rock.

Great question Mark & Mummara

Mucho

 

[drgabe]

Bump to first page status.
Great thread, I hope this is the first of many great threads to come.

I have one question... do your zoos seem to enjoy laminar (predictable) flow or more turbulant (chaotic) flow?

Or... do I need more power heads or finish up that closed loop manifold ?

 

[Shultz]

I use a tunze stream to cause pulses of water to go round the tank, agreed with the above when placing frags better to wedge them somewhere you think for a couple of days to see how they react before fixing them to the rockwork or whatever

Cheers Shelton.

 

[loyalty]

in my experience, it seems that palys enjoy higher flow than the zoas in my tank. in fact, i put most my zoas in lower flow areas because i don't want their skirts to grow out like a paly

 

[Azurel]

After reading some of your post about higher flow I increased it within my tank, at the same time made some major changes like live-rock stands and pushed the sand and crushed coral substrate to the front 50% of the tank while the stands would hold it there and keep the back half bare bottom. At this same time I also added about 25 pounds of new(cured) live rock this also changed the flow of my tank, and for the last 2 week the whole thing looked shabby. I found out that I was having a silicate problem also, so I purchased some Sea chem products to remove the silicates. Three days ago there was like a switch that was flipped in my tank, all of these zoas that had closed up were now open I even had a colony that had not opened in 3 weeks start to open now and for the last week they have been opened up continuously. I can guarantee the one thing that changed the out come of these zoas is the flow that was increased and the reduction of silicates. All of these zoanthids are in some what high flow areas with a natural wave device that give an intermittent flow. I just can't believe how great everything looks now even my bubble coral that had been closed up is back bigger then ever......I will say one thing I appreciate the info form this forum cause I was at my wits end trying to find out why or what would make these dang things open up like they were in the LFS......

Jim W.

 

[whodah]

nothing constructive to offer on my end - just a note to say that i've read it and appreciate the info, ty!

i think i'm gonna kick up my flow. i'm cruising around 20-25x currently depending on the phase of the tunze streams.