A pair of EcoWheel tanks in the making

[t12345]

How many different models of the ecowheel are there? I thought there was just the one model M12 the 20x20x34 unit and it was supposed to service approxiamately 500gal.
I was wondering what Chris is currently suggesting in regards to the bioballs at the bottom of the ecowheel unit. there was a thread about whether it contributed to detritus buildup and subsequent nitrate level in the water.
I've had a unit on order for 2 months now and my aquarium manufacturer is still waiting for the unit. If it does not arrive soon , I'm going to scrap that plan and go to a conventional setup; even though I like the concept.
Tim

 

[chask]

Tim wrote:
How many different models of the ecowheel are there? I thought there was just the one model M12 the 20x20x34 unit and it was supposed to service approxiamately 500gal.

Somehow I got the impression that there were 2 but then again I thought it was more like a maximum of a 300 gallon tank. What do I know? I have got to be one of the newest cherries here if not the newest. Anyway, I was deifnitely told 700 gallon (or maybe 750, but I think 700) this morning. 12 does sound like the right model number he mentioned.

I was wondering what Chris is currently suggesting in regards to the bioballs at the bottom of the ecowheel unit. there was a thread about whether it contributed to detritus buildup and subsequent nitrate level in the water.

I heard both bioballs and live rock mentioned. He said it was to reduce air bubbles in the tank. We did not go into it further.

I've had a unit on order for 2 months now and my aquarium manufacturer is still waiting for the unit. If it does not arrive soon, I'm going to scrap that plan and go to a conventional setup; even though I like the concept.

I like the concept a lot but this is not a comforting thought as I am currently thinking about buying one, no two. Did he promise a delivery? I will say Chris did mention some things they are doing a little differently.

Anybody else out there - I would love to here their experiences with the system. Please PM or e-mail me. I think I am going to start another thread about this as this is getting off Putwaywet's topic.

Aside:
As I look at this I probably should have just responded without all the formatting. But now that I have kind of figured it out . . well I guess the novelty will eventually pass. Probably not soon enough for most of you though.

Charles

 

[piercho]

Could someone post a site for ABS fittings

In the US, black ABS is the most common material sold for drain plumbing. At a typical hardware here, sizes from 1 1/2" up to 4" are available. It's intended for low-pressure applications. It has been fine for the purposes I've used it for. It will fit to PVC fittings if you thave to transition, but joining is tricky. Oatey sells a green PVC-ABS transition cement which has work for me on joints up to 6". You could also try a thin silicone like Marine Goop if you have to deal with transition joints. PVC is fine for use, but PVC sweep joints are hard to come by unless you special order, and the prices are high. Another option for joining is a rubber product with clamp fittings called "Qwik Fit". They are expensive, though, and I prefer hard (solvent welded) joints below the waterline. Kwik fits are great for running tests, though.

It is more expensive but using flexible tubing runs can provide a signinficant flow improvement

I absolutely love flexible PVC. At hardwares like Home Depot, its sold as "SPA flex", and is priced through the roof in limited diameters. Try a major plumbing supplier or a commercial aquatic store like Aquatic Eco Systems (AES). AES sells it in black and white in lots of diameters. With the smaller sizes (up to 1 1/4"), Chisty's Red Hot BLUE has worked great to join the flex to rigid PVC for me. I've never tried to join flex PVC to ABS, and would not recommend it. I would highly recommend the flex PVC for air lift plumbing - or any tank plumbing for that matter.

 

[Putawaywet]

I originally ordered some 2" black spa flex from A.E., and while it was not prohibitively expensive, I discovered that trying to get it inside my cabinets - specifically feeding it through the holes in the cabinet walls while still maintaining all the necessary bends was an extremely difficult task. About all I was able to manage was a 24" radius give or take.

Perhaps one could heat it and massage it into a tighter radius but 2" dia is pretty tuff stuff and. Laying prone inside a cabinet while wrestling non-cooperative hose proved to be an excercise in my patientence.

But if you can make it work I'd highly recommend it since it will not only reduce frictional losses, but save you some time and effort with your plumbing.

Re: The BioBall issue.... I'm not only seeing an increase in bubbles in the display since I removed the bioballs, but I also have a reduction of sponge growth on the grids in the lower portion of the filter. No doubt, the ring injector mod is probably contrbuting to to my bubble issue to some degree.

When I spoke to Morgan Lidster at Inland Aquatics he told me that he removed the bioballs from one of his 2 tanks and is also getting some bubbles returning to the tank.

As far as the filter sizing... I don't see why it can't be scaled to fit whatever tank you want. It should just be a matter of increasing the acrylic tank and wheel size proportional to the size of the aquarium.

And yes, if you increase the size of the head in the Airlift you should be able to increase the flow. At least I'm reasonably sure. Piercho will have to chime in on this - perhaps there is some breakeven point where additional head no longer matters but I can't help but wonder what kind of flow you would see if you ran your plumbing thru the floor to the basement and then tied back into a 12' airlift under the EcoWheel ???

Brett

 

[chask]

Putawaywet wrote:
As far as the filter sizing... I don't see why it can't be scaled to fit whatever tank you want. It should just be a matter of increasing the acrylic tank and wheel size proportional to the size of the aquarium.

Chris was not talking about increasing the size of the filter. We discussed space requirements as I need that information to complete the layout of the equipment room. He told me the unit is 20" x 20" and to allow for 2' x 2' for the air flow vent at the back and some other equipment or work space around the filter. I am not sure I understand. I too would think that surface area of the algae plates would have to increase in some proportion to increasing tank volume. Perhaps it is already way oversized.

matt & pam
Sent you a PM. Don't know if you have not been on or if you never check or just don't respond to those.

 

[piercho]

yes, if you increase the size of the head in the Airlift you should be able to increase the flow

Snailman passed these values on to me years ago. They are from an old AES catalog when they were trying to market their own ring injectors. You will see that the values are quite high, but remember that this is for in-tank, unrestricted (by plumbing) lifts:

Depth 1.0CFM 1.5CFM 2.0CFM
1" pipe
24" 8GPM 10GPM 13GPM
48" 21GPM 24GPM 28GPM

1.5" pipe
24" 16GPM 17GPM 18GPM
48" 36GPM 36GPM 42GPM

2" Pipe
24" 20GPM 24GPM 30GPM
48" 42GPM 48GPM 61GPM

In these cases, for a 2X increase in lift heigth, the increase in flow is over 2X. So it looks good. But consider your air pump. Even if the pump can handle the pressure, you will still get reduced air output at increased head. Lets say you get half the air output at twice the head. On paper, it looks like you'll get better flow rates. In reality? Don't know. Not easy to test in mock-up either, unless you have a 2nd-level deck.

You'll need the output curve for the air pump you intend to use when considering how tall to make the lift. My pump, a linear piston Medo AC602, stalls out at about 5 psig. But the "knee" in the performance curve is at about 2.5 psig. Past 3 psig, output drops off faster. So, unless I was going to use a different pump, I'd keep the pressure that pump sees under 3 psig.

 

[matt & pam]

chask,
you've got PM.
Matt

 

[matt & pam]

FWIW, Chris now is offereing a flex PVC plumbing kit with the eco-wheel.

Matt

 

[wbburris]

I started up a custom, used Eco-Wheel about 7 months ago. It doesn't have anything below the box where the wheel is located; only 3/4, and 1" hose barbs. I have a RIO in the sump, and pump approx. 2-3gpm thru the unit back into the sump. The algae is red which the Tang likes (does not like green). I have a 400g tank with LR, few fish, and many varieties of corals. I am not using a skimmer. I think that between the LR, oolithic sand bed, and the Eco-Wheel the water stays clear, and there has never been an algae problem. I would like to eliminate the sump, but I would be pumping air into the tank. My objective is to use the least amount of equipment to have a beautiful, and healthy tank, and livestock.

 

[t12345]

In regards to the restrictions to water flow, are the factors limited to one side or the other, ie. influent vs effluent? If the influent side had the minimum number of turns in the piping then flow and surge should be mimimally affected? On the effluent side if you had a number of turns in the piping and it slowed the flow down, would you just get a decrease in the number of revolutions in the wheel and number of surges/minute? I want to maintain the peak velocity for the surge on the influent side. My installation is somewhat convoluted, so I'm concerned about dropping peak flow for the surge.
any comments please?
thanks tim

 

[wbburris]

I just circulate a small flow from the sump to the EW, and back to the sump. I don't have a surge, and couldn't have one with the small piping. I cut two more triangular openings in the side of the wheel to match the other two so there wouldn't be a hesitation in the wheel rotation. The wheel stopped for a while in one spot on each revolution. This caused the algae to bleech out in that area. The more uniform rotation of the wheel now prevents that problem. The EW makes a nice item to look at, but I believe a refugium would be less comlicated, and limiting. I wouldn't know if is beneficial without disconnecting it. I think the sand, LR, and sump is all that is necessary.

 

[chask]

wbburris wrote:
I just circulate a small flow from the sump to the EW, and back to the sump. I don't have a surge, and couldn't have one with the small piping. I cut two more triangular openings in the side of the wheel to match the other two so there wouldn't be a hesitation in the wheel rotation. The wheel stopped for a while in one spot on each revolution. This caused the algae to bleech out in that area. The more uniform rotation of the wheel now prevents that problem.

Is the lack of a surge due to the EW no longer hesitating?

wbburris wrote:
The EW makes a nice item to look at, but I believe a refugium would be less comlicated, and limiting. I wouldn't know if is beneficial without disconnecting it. I think the sand, LR, and sump is all that is necessary.

How large a sump or refugium do you have and what is the recommended or 'rule of thumb' range on a 400 gallon tank? From what I have read and been told the EW (with a 2'x2' footprint and the height of the tank) will handle a system almost twice the size of yours. When I look at the plumbing Putawaywet has, the lack of the other items to maintain (skimmer, etc.), and the size of the EW relative to a large sump, I do not see how the EW is more complicated. Would you please explain?

wbburris wrote:
My objective is to use the least amount of equipment to have a beautiful, and healthy tank, and livestock.

Wouldn't we all? I just would like to do this with a more natural approach.

Thanks
Charles

 

[wbburris]

The EW has to be mounted with its axle above the water level in the tank. If the tank, and EW are made as an operating unit then it is simple. The air pump will product about 20 gpm water flow into the EW. The surging action of the EW may generate 2x that into the tank.
Since my EW is non-standard, a lot of problems arise when trying to make it operate as a standard unit. Since it doesn't have the lower section, it would require a sump on the discharge to allow air to escape. If the EW is standard, and it can be mounted above the tank then it is probably the simplest system out there.

 

[chask]

wbburris,

Thanks. I had sort of come to that conclusion but was confused by your post. I appreciate your clarification.

Thanks
Charles

 

[chask]

Putawaywet
One of the newer probs that has developed seems to be directly related to placing the tanks on the carpet. The weight of the reef tank caused that section to settle just a tad more than the pier piling tank or the middle section with the EcoWheel.

Haven't heard much about this since your post several weeks ago. For that matter, nothing in about 2 weeks. Have you made any progress on the siphon/washer setup? Or is the holiday season eating up your free time?

Hope all is well

Thanks
Charles

 

[Putawaywet]

Sorry I went AWOL, but I had a death in the family Dec. 12th and things have been kinda hectic. It's amazing how much paperwork is involved and how many people have to be notified to sort out an estate. With that and the Holidays I barely had time to check email let alone stop in here to surf the board.

Otherwise, yes the powerwasher is finished... I just need to work out a few quirks. It appears that while the quick disconnects seemed like a good idea at the time, I seem to have a vaccuum leak on the inlet side of the pump. Either that, or my hoses are sucking air where they slide over the hosebarbs on the disconnects. So, other than a whole bunch of microbubbles entering the cannister, which necessitates opening the bleed off valve every 15 minutes, it works great. Although in hindsight, I think I could have gone bigger than a Mag12 for my pump.

I'm going to try and replace the disconnects with some regular hosebarbs and see if that fixes the prob. If it does, I'll go back and play with the disconnects and see if I can get them to work since the whole idea is for me to be able to roll the hoses up and store them in a rubbermaid tub and then slide the powerwasher setup back into the cabinet.

I have pics but it seems I have filled up my gallery and am out of space. I was planning to upgrade to a paid membership but with everything going on I just haven't gotten around to it yet.

Brett

 

[Zacrifice]

Hey Brett
Email me with the photos and I will gladely host them for you untill such time as you get your own site..

benmichels@bigpond.com

Any and all photos you want to post I will be happy to host for as long as needed

 

[Konadog]

Brett, you can also email GregT (one of the Mod's) for more space here on RC. If you support RC (I believe) you get more space also.

 

[Putawaywet]

Thanks, I appreciate the offers.

I could have sworn that when the changes were made last year to the site no longer allowing direct uploads to posts GregT said if you needed more space to just email, but when I inquired about that very thing on the feedback forum I was told I needed to upgrade to a paid membership. So now I'm a little confused

Not that I have anything against upgrading, it's just that I haven't gotten that far down on my "to do" list yet.

However, I'm about due for another update (which is totally worthless without pics) so give me a couple more weeks and one way or another I'll get something put together.

But don't get too excited.... I think it's going to be kind of anti-climatic after the peir piling so I hope everyone doesn't mind more growth pics and prgress reports.

Brett

 

[chask]

Get too excited - Not me. (Now where is that smiley face bouncing off the walls with the tongue hanging out?)

In all seriousness, please post those too. Being new to the salt water part of the hobby (err, obsession ) I enjoy seeing grow out pics. Gives me an idea of what a good tank should look like.

I am also interested in the tank cleaning set up. Not to mention seeing how the Eco-Wheel is holding up.

chask