A Splash of Color
- Thread starter biggles
- Start date
That is about what they are here in Ohio.
reefmutt
Active member
Everything is double north of the 49th
yep... you are so right..
slavetonet
New member
That is crazy cost for AF product with their DIY.
I think mine comes out to be just under $100 for a yearly DIY chemical elements. :dance: That includes the Alk and Cal powder.
Throw in 1 box of salt per year at $100.
biggles
Premium Member
I want to know what your BSC is people:
Biggles Sump Coefficient
After the ridiculous carry on when i announced the BFC and in particular the repeated whiny moaning about fish size affecting the BFC result - the BFC is a self correcting equation that makes fish sizes irrelevant. It is the back end calculus working behind the scenes when the BFC is running that makes the BFC the mathematical thing of beauty it is - the subject is closed and accepted scientific fact on this journal :reading:
To calculate your BSC you need only divide your display volume by your sump volume.
My display is 150gal
The sump is 60gal.
150 divided by 60 = 2.5
My BSC is 2.5
The volume of your sump is to be calculated as per normal BUT ! and i am not going to tolerate any stupid ' but my refuge is 20ft tall ' bs......
The water height for the entire sump/refuge/frag tank or whatever under the tank is calculated on the lowest water height of any section of the sump system. If half your sump is 4" deep and the rest is 24" deep you use the 4" number for your sump volume calculation.
If all you did was divide the volume of one by the other you would get inconsistent results for comparison due to some people having huge refuges and frag tanks etc while others have just a glorified bucket under their displays (Dom).
The self correcting backend of the BSC utilizes a slightly modified version of the BFC calculus, trying to explain string maths to you guys would be like trying to explain reverse gravity to Reefvet - waste of time. :twitch:
The lowest water level section in my new sump is 10" with all other sections much higher - the sump water is 10" all over for entry into the BSC.
The lower the number, the better your BSC - if you don't already know that basic marine keeping parameter and why the lower the better it is for your systems health then you need to go over to the softie forum - and stay there.
Science is only now catching up to my groundbreaking fish poo/pee analysis that resulted in the BFC - obviously stole the idea from someone...... someone named biggles........:mad2:
It's a joke Marty, that's what i think of that article !
After loading the sump onto the acro ute i went to pay Dave...... this will be interesting.... ask Dom if you doubt this sort of thing happens to me regularly at Deer Park.
Round One:
I wanted a box set of component strong from Dave when i picked up my new reef play toy.
It had a $50- price sticker on the box so i said 'i want to pay for the bucket of AF reef salt i grabbed with all that AF stuff and a give me box of comp strong please mate, it's fifty bucks'.
Dave scans the box and says forty five bucks............. oh here we go it's not going to be a simple transaction. :fun4:
'It's $50- Dave' as i hand him 2 x $20's and a $10 - the multiple notes confuse him momentarily but he recovered and struck back.
'Nope this is enough' - throwing the $10 back across the counter at me.
He's now got me down to paying only $40- for the $50- box set and i thought if i keep going i'm going to be lucky to pay anything so i decided to cut and run.
I threw a $5- note across the counter and Dave who was looking at the cash register just snatched it without looking and put it in the till.......
Round Two:
'What about the bucket of salt ?'
As Dave walks away from the till i got a bad feeling that he was going for the kill move on this one. 'Nah that was a free sample bucket from the rep, just take it instead of the sea salt'
'It wasn't %$#@%$ free Dave and i've used most of the sea salt it's fine'
Dave says ' it's fine just use it '
'I won't just use it i want to pay you for it mate'
Dave is now walking away into the fish room with his hands up saying ' it was free, truly just take it '
I had to give this one to Dave, it's hard to pay him when he's hiding in another room - i find this walking off maneuver to border on cheating in our transaction duels but it's Dave's shop so Dave's rules.
When i find the right time on one of my next visits i will get Dave's mom Deb to quietly look up the price and give her the cash after explaining what happened just because Dave felt bad about the wrong salt thing. Won't be the first time i've told Deb about Dave's lies and managed to pay more. :smokin:
Sometimes Dave just thinks he wins............
Round Three:
'Well look after yourself until next visit' says Dave smiling.
When Dave dismisses you it's hardball - uh oh, i thought he would be happy with the ghost victory i let him have. He's gotten cocky and thinks he's on a roll obviously........
'What about the bloody sump Dave ?'
'I haven't got the acrylic yet so i can't work out the price yet, we'll work it out so don't stress'
DON"T STRESS !!!! - it's not just me is it, like he's telling me not to stress about not being allowed to pay him money........ it's all wrong isn't it ?????
'I'm not bloody stressed i just want to know how much it will be at least, just roughly'
'Oh i couldn't say, won't be much though'
'It'll be at least $500- with all that acrylic work and ten mil glass and don't bloody argue Dave, i'm going see ya next week mate' - and I walked off on him towards the front door grinning to myself waving bye to the round three loser..........
Dave was in another room and at least 20 feet away from me as i walked out the front door of the main shop room and i could taste victory - TASTE IT !
The faint words from the fish room wiped the smile off my face as my foot was about to touch the outside cement path.......
'More like three hundred, maybe three fifty tops........see ya'
As i drove home it was quiet in the acro ute, i didn't feel like listening to music.......... i was pretty deflated at how the entire visit went and think i might have created a monster by letting Dave think he's a winner sometimes.
I looked in the rear view mirror at the min $500- sump and then added the $100- salt and lastly the $50- component strong..... $650-
In the 45 minutes Dave and i played let me pay for something please i managed to hand over $45-
Since old Davey boy needs pulling back into line i have decided to play the cash and dash maneuver i once described to Dom
I will wait until Dave is on the other side of the counter and literally throw the extra $50- notes at him that i deem appropriate when i pay for the sump and run out of the shop into the ute - locking the doors so he can't throw any cash back at me AND drive off !
Dom knows i'll actually do it.........
I'll answer everyone's posts after i have some dinner
Biggles Sump Coefficient
After the ridiculous carry on when i announced the BFC and in particular the repeated whiny moaning about fish size affecting the BFC result - the BFC is a self correcting equation that makes fish sizes irrelevant. It is the back end calculus working behind the scenes when the BFC is running that makes the BFC the mathematical thing of beauty it is - the subject is closed and accepted scientific fact on this journal :reading:
To calculate your BSC you need only divide your display volume by your sump volume.
My display is 150gal
The sump is 60gal.
150 divided by 60 = 2.5
My BSC is 2.5
The volume of your sump is to be calculated as per normal BUT ! and i am not going to tolerate any stupid ' but my refuge is 20ft tall ' bs......
The water height for the entire sump/refuge/frag tank or whatever under the tank is calculated on the lowest water height of any section of the sump system. If half your sump is 4" deep and the rest is 24" deep you use the 4" number for your sump volume calculation.
If all you did was divide the volume of one by the other you would get inconsistent results for comparison due to some people having huge refuges and frag tanks etc while others have just a glorified bucket under their displays (Dom).
The self correcting backend of the BSC utilizes a slightly modified version of the BFC calculus, trying to explain string maths to you guys would be like trying to explain reverse gravity to Reefvet - waste of time. :twitch:
The lowest water level section in my new sump is 10" with all other sections much higher - the sump water is 10" all over for entry into the BSC.
The lower the number, the better your BSC - if you don't already know that basic marine keeping parameter and why the lower the better it is for your systems health then you need to go over to the softie forum - and stay there.
Science is only now catching up to my groundbreaking fish poo/pee analysis that resulted in the BFC - obviously stole the idea from someone...... someone named biggles........:mad2:
It's a joke Marty, that's what i think of that article !
After loading the sump onto the acro ute i went to pay Dave...... this will be interesting.... ask Dom if you doubt this sort of thing happens to me regularly at Deer Park.
Round One:
I wanted a box set of component strong from Dave when i picked up my new reef play toy.
It had a $50- price sticker on the box so i said 'i want to pay for the bucket of AF reef salt i grabbed with all that AF stuff and a give me box of comp strong please mate, it's fifty bucks'.
Dave scans the box and says forty five bucks............. oh here we go it's not going to be a simple transaction. :fun4:
'It's $50- Dave' as i hand him 2 x $20's and a $10 - the multiple notes confuse him momentarily but he recovered and struck back.
'Nope this is enough' - throwing the $10 back across the counter at me.
He's now got me down to paying only $40- for the $50- box set and i thought if i keep going i'm going to be lucky to pay anything so i decided to cut and run.
I threw a $5- note across the counter and Dave who was looking at the cash register just snatched it without looking and put it in the till.......
Round Two:
'What about the bucket of salt ?'
As Dave walks away from the till i got a bad feeling that he was going for the kill move on this one. 'Nah that was a free sample bucket from the rep, just take it instead of the sea salt'
'It wasn't %$#@%$ free Dave and i've used most of the sea salt it's fine'
Dave says ' it's fine just use it '
'I won't just use it i want to pay you for it mate'
Dave is now walking away into the fish room with his hands up saying ' it was free, truly just take it '
I had to give this one to Dave, it's hard to pay him when he's hiding in another room - i find this walking off maneuver to border on cheating in our transaction duels but it's Dave's shop so Dave's rules.
When i find the right time on one of my next visits i will get Dave's mom Deb to quietly look up the price and give her the cash after explaining what happened just because Dave felt bad about the wrong salt thing. Won't be the first time i've told Deb about Dave's lies and managed to pay more. :smokin:
Sometimes Dave just thinks he wins............
Round Three:
'Well look after yourself until next visit' says Dave smiling.
When Dave dismisses you it's hardball - uh oh, i thought he would be happy with the ghost victory i let him have. He's gotten cocky and thinks he's on a roll obviously........
'What about the bloody sump Dave ?'
'I haven't got the acrylic yet so i can't work out the price yet, we'll work it out so don't stress'
DON"T STRESS !!!! - it's not just me is it, like he's telling me not to stress about not being allowed to pay him money........ it's all wrong isn't it ?????
'I'm not bloody stressed i just want to know how much it will be at least, just roughly'
'Oh i couldn't say, won't be much though'
'It'll be at least $500- with all that acrylic work and ten mil glass and don't bloody argue Dave, i'm going see ya next week mate' - and I walked off on him towards the front door grinning to myself waving bye to the round three loser..........
Dave was in another room and at least 20 feet away from me as i walked out the front door of the main shop room and i could taste victory - TASTE IT !
The faint words from the fish room wiped the smile off my face as my foot was about to touch the outside cement path.......
'More like three hundred, maybe three fifty tops........see ya'
As i drove home it was quiet in the acro ute, i didn't feel like listening to music.......... i was pretty deflated at how the entire visit went and think i might have created a monster by letting Dave think he's a winner sometimes.
I looked in the rear view mirror at the min $500- sump and then added the $100- salt and lastly the $50- component strong..... $650-
In the 45 minutes Dave and i played let me pay for something please i managed to hand over $45-
Since old Davey boy needs pulling back into line i have decided to play the cash and dash maneuver i once described to Dom
I will wait until Dave is on the other side of the counter and literally throw the extra $50- notes at him that i deem appropriate when i pay for the sump and run out of the shop into the ute - locking the doors so he can't throw any cash back at me AND drive off !
Dom knows i'll actually do it.........
I'll answer everyone's posts after i have some dinner
biggles
Premium Member
Thanks for the link Marty :thumbsup:
Hi Chris, i use 3mm bulk coral sand - 1/8th". It comes in 25 kilo unmarked bags. It still looks like fine sand without blowing around too much.
Glad things are going well Bulent, it just reminded you of something you already knew mate
Hey Mike, i asked Dave to order me a 2-3" cbb today after your post reminded me - thanks bud.
I have no idea tbh if the comp 123 will give me great results. Be nice if it did but i'm not holding my breath lol. I bet it's the heavy metals component that's paling your acros, copper is likely skewed too high for my comfort in the mix but i'll see how things go and drop that part of the 123 mix if i see any paling. I will make up my own metals mix without the copper part and experiment with that if i need to.
I still want to try some bacteria without the carbon dosing food part and maybe the vitamin supplement. Def not using the energy as the description of what it does tells me all i want to know about its copper content. it's already in the comp 123 so adding more is not going to happen. I don't want anything approaching the look of Deborah's pale colors - it's a stunning display that i love to look at but i like rich deep colors in my own display. We all like different display looks and it's crazy to think how much we can now customize the look of our acros rather than just keep them alive....
Cleaner is $120 to $150- normally Mark............. $200- for a blood shrimp
Australia is 10th on the olympic medal count Matt........... the great white north is 19th.......... why do you even show up.........:wavehand:
I said the comp strong was $40- but it's $50- so the cost just went up lol.
I would want to see something impressive to justify the cost of AF balling alone mate.
martinphillip03
New member
Andrew, why do you think these reef companies put copper in their reef supplements?
Marty
Marty
reefmutt
Active member
Andrew, just send me any cash that Dave won't accept... I'll mail back to him, I promise!
Yes, our medal count usually is a bit better for the winter games.. We do get two solid months of summer up here, though, so a couple summer medals ain't so bad..
But if De Grasse beats Bolt tonight, Canada will be king o' the world..
Although, I don't think it'll happen just yet..
Yes, our medal count usually is a bit better for the winter games.. We do get two solid months of summer up here, though, so a couple summer medals ain't so bad..
But if De Grasse beats Bolt tonight, Canada will be king o' the world..
Although, I don't think it'll happen just yet..
.equis
Member
Thanks mate, i only started the AF comp 123 yesterday.
The sand remains pristine white even in the shadows and low flow areas. If you have low nitrates and high phos you get dirty glass and clean sand. High on both and you get dirty glass and cyano etc on the sand. No idea what happens when you have low phos and high nitrates because i've never had trouble bottoming out nitrates since i've always gone heavy on live rock and now matrix bio media.
If i see anything starting to appear on the sand i will know the matrix is over due for a clean.
Easy peasy when you don't think about it too hard and just use your noggin
Thanks bro for the info!! I can never keep mine clean. What kind of matrix bio media are you using?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
M007
Acro Whore
Good move on the CBB Andrew, just feed mysis once a day, keep him hungry, and he'll do his thing. The younger the better, the big ones can be a pain to get happy. I agree with you, there is some copper in 1-2-3, I'm dosing just SP, Lugols, and now a cap full off the 1000ml bottle of AC, and the colours are starting to re saturate. My N03 and P04 are off the hook with no algae issues. I keep upping the 1-2-3 dosage to try and get to my target numbers so going through a bit of a see saw at the moment. I'm even doing two pinches of Reefroids daily LOL. At least my goni colonies are happy
slavetonet
New member
Copper is not the devil as some have proclaim it to be bad.
It is actually needed for corals as it does oxygen transport, electron transfer, and oxidation.
It is actually needed for corals as it does oxygen transport, electron transfer, and oxidation.
wheelman76
New member
Andrew I know you don't care as much about the "flubber" in your tank but keep in mind some copperband butterflies really enjoy the taste of acans and zoas.
It expels zooanthelle through magic (or w/e) which gets rid of the brown/green tinges and makes your true coral colors come to life. Healthy corals in the wild are typically some shade of brown because they're infested with Zooanthelle lol. I'm not sure what the magic mechanism is, but that's what it does
Also, I've ordered the KoralColor and Lugols Andrew. I'll pick up some AF Micro E too. Seems too good to be true still, looking forward to results
biggles
Premium Member
It's an easy way to give a reefer a visual result fast which tends to excite those of used to waiting weeks/months to see if a particular product has an effect. Whether you have great colors or dull brownish acros i can assure you the result of copper dosing will add a visual pop and brightness to your acros that's rather enticing...........
I just wish it was a lone bottle ingredient that you had the choice of using without sacrificing other things contained in whatever solution it was a part of :hammer:
Dave will get the cash trust me Matt, it's going to be like pulling teeth getting him to take it but in the end i wear him down
We're woeful at the winter games Matt, you can remind me when they're on buddy.......
Hi mate, i use the 15mm version that comes in 2L containers. I use the containers for my pre weighed salt batches and have about eight with the right amount each for a 25L RO water barrel. I had to buy more drums last week so i have enough to make up 200L of new salt water which i need on hand for the sump swap. I'll use up the last of the AF sea salt and add calcium, magnesium and potassium as it drops those when i do a water change - joke salt.
Good move on the CBB Andrew, just feed mysis once a day, keep him hungry, and he'll do his thing. The younger the better, the big ones can be a pain to get happy. I agree with you, there is some copper in 1-2-3, I'm dosing just SP, Lugols, and now a cap full off the 1000ml bottle of AC, and the colours are starting to re saturate. My N03 and P04 are off the hook with no algae issues. I keep upping the 1-2-3 dosage to try and get to my target numbers so going through a bit of a see saw at the moment. I'm even doing two pinches of Reefroids daily LOL. At least my goni colonies are happy
I asked for a 2-3" one Mike and the display has lots of critters and stuff no longer preyed upon by wrasse etc. At night the rocks are swarming with pods now so eventually i will get another mandarin if all goes well, they look super cool fluttering over white sand
I noticed today that the acros were looking brighter and put it down to the comp B. Nothing drastic but noticeable. The acros have great PE during full lights on and look 'happy' as we say. I have had to up the 123 to 170ml today with alk dropping at 160ml. It's only been 5 days so i haven't got a steady dose figured out, might take a couple of weeks for the system to adjust to the new balling solutions and the draw to stabilize i guess.
Glad to hear your babies are regaining their saturation buddy, i like some pastel acros but not everything in the display lol.
I know it's needed mate but not at the levels many are running it at, i will get a triton after using just the comp 123 for a month or two just to see how my levels appear under their balling method.
Hey Jess, Dave warned me the suicidal pep shrimp might damage the acans - ' who cares Dave, who bloody cares mate '...........
The cbb is a done deal !
The frag section ended up being 24" wide and 30" long with a 10" high overflow height. These are the cheap $99- single reflector units i'll be placing over the frag section. So $200- without bulbs. The same thing in ATI - an 8 x 24W sunpower is $770- without bulbs.
Given the water depth and poor efficiency of the fan less light units i figure about 12" off the water would be a good start. These are the same cheap nasties i have over the display.
And yes that's coral sand all over the carpet............ i will vac after the sump swap, waste of time doing it now and then again after the swap......... :smokin:
maxxII
Super Housemonkey!
Impressive. Do you make the other watch so they know what's coming?
Australia is a tough country after all...I saw Crocodile Dundee and watched Crocodile Hunter...I know all about you guys!
