A Splash of Color
- Thread starter biggles
- Start date
biggles
Premium Member
It is a seriously good frag Matt, until the novelty wears off and it becomes a deepwater table display............
Bloody things are even cheaper now..... i've been using them for years with no problem other than a switch i replaced on one a year ago.
cheap T5 fixtures
Thanks Conor, i tried adding two small ones over the last couple of years but the yellow tang wouldn't leave them alone and then the other tangs started joining in. The CBB and BJ will be the only other fish bigger than an anthias because i want to jam as many small fish in as the system can handle. I want it to look like the vids you see of lots of small colorful fish hovering over the acros. The pep murdering cardinals hover UNDER the tables so they're bloody useless...... except for murder......
You don't want to stress them too much or the enzymes released can turn all your acros green........
Did both you guys use the lowest water level in any chamber of your sumps to calculate what's in the sump ? Not the total volume your sumps hold if full........
Your BSC sounds dodgy Max since you said 75 gallon sump not 75 gallons IN the sump - if you're using a 75 gallon sump your numbers are wrong. I need a clarification before we'll accept your BSC Max :strange:
Matt, just had a quick question for you bud. Minor thing but did you pay particular attention to the the very precisely worded rules - precise so as to leave NO grounds for appeal. For example.........
sometimes it's the little things that slip you up........
Anyway, i just wanted make sure you knew the rules are the rules for a reason my Canadian friend :love1::wave:
slavetonet
New member
What is this BSC Max?
I don't get it - what is it for?
Say my current display tank (net volume) 350 L and sump is 40 L
What does that mean if I get 8.75 ?
I don't get it - what is it for?
Say my current display tank (net volume) 350 L and sump is 40 L
What does that mean if I get 8.75 ?
biggles
Premium Member
I can't say for sure mate, never seen a number off the charts like that :eek1:
The higher the number the lower your bio filtration buffering capacity..... the more twitchy your nutrient balance will be - at least that's the theory currently being put forward in major scientific circles. :reading:
I made two temp matrix shelves to keep the water under the baffle clear of stones and provide better flow to the second media chamber. Both sections above the raised shelves are 12" x 6" x 7" high so will hold lots of matrix.
I cut black egg crate to a snug fit for each chamber and then super glue gelled 3/4" pipe elbows i had lying around in the shed to each corner to raise the grids above the baffle height. I then cut black plastic gutter guard to lay on top of the egg crate to prevent smaller stones falling through. I think i'll glue egg crate 'handles to each end of the panels to use for 'jiggling' sticks. I only need to agitate the stones up and down 1/2" to free stuff.
Dave is holding me a couple more sheets of the sexy and way cooler than white egg crate as i might go crazy and make matrix containers to place with the skimmer and the return pump, both sections have a lot of spare room. The shelf top left is temp for me to place a piece of 100 micron felt cloth on if i want until the acrylic twin 4" sock plates are ready. The water flows right to left on this side of the sump with the water flowing from the slots in the frag tank wall.
I'm going to hang a removable black acrylic screen from the sump roof that will basically meet the frag tank overflow wall and prevent light getting to the rest of the sump.
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slavetonet
New member
But my nutrients have always been stable...
It never move - stays around these
NO3 at 2.5ppm to 5 ppm
PO4 at 0.03 to 0.05 ppm
This is with 10 L of siporax mini and 6 L of marine pure spheres.
With 1 L of Macropore - clone of Seachem purigen.
That is all I run for the past 6 months.
Occasionally I will drop 1 drop of zeobak - weekly basis into the sump.
I have my doubts the BSC is working in my case.... comments?
It never move - stays around these
NO3 at 2.5ppm to 5 ppm
PO4 at 0.03 to 0.05 ppm
This is with 10 L of siporax mini and 6 L of marine pure spheres.
With 1 L of Macropore - clone of Seachem purigen.
That is all I run for the past 6 months.
Occasionally I will drop 1 drop of zeobak - weekly basis into the sump.
I have my doubts the BSC is working in my case.... comments?
biggles
Premium Member
More matrix stuff. It's probably boring most of you guys but it might give a few of you ideas about how easy it is to integrate some matrix/siporax type media into your sumps - a little goes a long way compared to live rock. :thumbsup:
This side is also 12" wide, water flow is left to right. On the very far left is the overflow pipes chamber then the top left egg crate is where the other twin 4" acrylic sock plate will go. After the sock section the water goes under the baffle glass and into the 18" long skimmer section. The skimmer is a touch over 12" long so must go longways in the chamber but that still leaves a clear 4" wide matrix chamber allowing a couple of inches clearance for the water intake.
The skimmer width also leaves a clear 4" wide area for a long shallow 1" matrix bed by about 14" long. Shallow because water flow will be slow and poor through the skimmer section compared to the chambers where the water is forced through the matrix. About 1.5L will cover the 1" depth.
The 12" wide basket blocking the sock chamber baffle flow will be 4" x 4" and sit on the very bottom unlike the shelves i showed you before. I want to force the water through the media rather than have it flow under and bypass the matrix on the shelf. I will put about 3" of matrix in this chamber as any higher won't get a lot of the flow before it exits the matrix - about 2.5L of stones.
That's 4L of matrix i have planned for the wasted space in just the skimmer section. Another 2L will easily go in the return pump chamber. I could put a couple of inches on racks at the bottom of each sock chamber if i really wanted to go nuts. The matrix will be topped up until all the chambers i described are full to the planned depth. Probably need at least 4 more litres on top of the 16 i have atm but no idea tbh lol.
Btw, Dave had only half finished razoring the silicon when i insisted on taking the sump regardless. He was mortified lol and insisted on vacuuming out all the bits of cut away silicon lying on the bottom before he would help me move it onto the back of the ute. I gritted my teeth and waited up one end to lift it once he'd finished when i feel him nudging my arm with the vac head
'i can't reach, can you get the end'
'it's fine Dave'
'please'
'oh for you know what's sake gimme the bloody thing'
I go to the LFS and Dave makes me vacuum the bloody shop - and no, i do not think i'm exaggerating how much effort was involved on my behalf. I had a sore shoulder the next day Dave and no it wasn't from lifting the tank !
Dave hates my low tech approach to SPS, he said last visit that one day he and Ken were just going to show up with a heap of electronic stuff and bring me into the 21st century :twitch:
He brought out a 4 head dosing machine he just got in that has - wait for it Sahin - a magnetic stirrer built in behind and on top of each dosing head !!!!
'How much Dave ?'
'About $800-'
'Holy bleepity bleep bleep'
'The glass stirrer bottles are $150- each'
'Hang on, are you saying it's another $600- to use the stirrer bits?'
'Yep, but most guys use glass baby bottles as they're cheap'
'So $800- to look like a baby sterilizer, you know what you can do with that thing don't you mate'
Dave just grinned and put it away.
This side is also 12" wide, water flow is left to right. On the very far left is the overflow pipes chamber then the top left egg crate is where the other twin 4" acrylic sock plate will go. After the sock section the water goes under the baffle glass and into the 18" long skimmer section. The skimmer is a touch over 12" long so must go longways in the chamber but that still leaves a clear 4" wide matrix chamber allowing a couple of inches clearance for the water intake.
The skimmer width also leaves a clear 4" wide area for a long shallow 1" matrix bed by about 14" long. Shallow because water flow will be slow and poor through the skimmer section compared to the chambers where the water is forced through the matrix. About 1.5L will cover the 1" depth.
The 12" wide basket blocking the sock chamber baffle flow will be 4" x 4" and sit on the very bottom unlike the shelves i showed you before. I want to force the water through the media rather than have it flow under and bypass the matrix on the shelf. I will put about 3" of matrix in this chamber as any higher won't get a lot of the flow before it exits the matrix - about 2.5L of stones.
That's 4L of matrix i have planned for the wasted space in just the skimmer section. Another 2L will easily go in the return pump chamber. I could put a couple of inches on racks at the bottom of each sock chamber if i really wanted to go nuts. The matrix will be topped up until all the chambers i described are full to the planned depth. Probably need at least 4 more litres on top of the 16 i have atm but no idea tbh lol.
Btw, Dave had only half finished razoring the silicon when i insisted on taking the sump regardless. He was mortified lol and insisted on vacuuming out all the bits of cut away silicon lying on the bottom before he would help me move it onto the back of the ute. I gritted my teeth and waited up one end to lift it once he'd finished when i feel him nudging my arm with the vac head
'i can't reach, can you get the end'
'it's fine Dave'
'please'
'oh for you know what's sake gimme the bloody thing'
I go to the LFS and Dave makes me vacuum the bloody shop - and no, i do not think i'm exaggerating how much effort was involved on my behalf. I had a sore shoulder the next day Dave and no it wasn't from lifting the tank !
Dave hates my low tech approach to SPS, he said last visit that one day he and Ken were just going to show up with a heap of electronic stuff and bring me into the 21st century :twitch:
He brought out a 4 head dosing machine he just got in that has - wait for it Sahin - a magnetic stirrer built in behind and on top of each dosing head !!!!
'How much Dave ?'
'About $800-'
'Holy bleepity bleep bleep'
'The glass stirrer bottles are $150- each'
'Hang on, are you saying it's another $600- to use the stirrer bits?'
'Yep, but most guys use glass baby bottles as they're cheap'
'So $800- to look like a baby sterilizer, you know what you can do with that thing don't you mate'
Dave just grinned and put it away.
biggles
Premium Member
Hang on mate, i thought you were just confused and being from Qld i wouldn't be at all surprised. Now i'm starting to get a vibe that you're questioning the validity of the BSC..........
The BSC doesn't 'work' or not bloody 'work' - it's not me on a Friday afternoon. Btw i was looking at those big brick blocks of marine pure - do you think one is really worth $130- because i'm thinking about trying one down the track. That's a lot of cash for a small amount so i want to know if it works lol.
slavetonet
New member
I have recently bought 10 L of the siporax 15mm from Ebay for $140. Going to add this to my new tank.
That is more than enough and will beat the crap out of Marine pure blocks by 5 times. :twitch:
Synodontis
New member
Hey Andrew,
Tanks is looking brilliant as usual
You need to get that sump installed & sorted so we can bring those toys over & get them installed lol.
We end up with a BSC of 4.46, Dave is going to hate me when I tell him we need a bigger sump! but damn, he'll hate you more for being the one that instigated it all!
Tanks is looking brilliant as usual
You need to get that sump installed & sorted so we can bring those toys over & get them installed lol.
We end up with a BSC of 4.46, Dave is going to hate me when I tell him we need a bigger sump! but damn, he'll hate you more for being the one that instigated it all!
Round One:
I wanted a box set of component strong from Dave when i picked up my new reef play toy.
It had a $50- price sticker on the box so i said 'i want to pay for the bucket of AF reef salt i grabbed with all that AF stuff and a give me box of comp strong please mate, it's fifty bucks'.
Dave scans the box and says forty five bucks............. oh here we go it's not going to be a simple transaction. :fun4:
'It's $50- Dave' as i hand him 2 x $20's and a $10 - the multiple notes confuse him momentarily but he recovered and struck back.
'Nope this is enough' - throwing the $10 back across the counter at me.
He's now got me down to paying only $40- for the $50- box set and i thought if i keep going i'm going to be lucky to pay anything so i decided to cut and run.
I threw a $5- note across the counter and Dave who was looking at the cash register just snatched it without looking and put it in the till.......
Round Two:
'What about the bucket of salt ?'
As Dave walks away from the till i got a bad feeling that he was going for the kill move on this one. 'Nah that was a free sample bucket from the rep, just take it instead of the sea salt'
'It wasn't %$#@%$ free Dave and i've used most of the sea salt it's fine'
Dave says ' it's fine just use it '
'I won't just use it i want to pay you for it mate'
Dave is now walking away into the fish room with his hands up saying ' it was free, truly just take it '
I had to give this one to Dave, it's hard to pay him when he's hiding in another room - i find this walking off maneuver to border on cheating in our transaction duels but it's Dave's shop so Dave's rules.
When i find the right time on one of my next visits i will get Dave's mom Deb to quietly look up the price and give her the cash after explaining what happened just because Dave felt bad about the wrong salt thing. Won't be the first time i've told Deb about Dave's lies and managed to pay more. :smokin:
Sometimes Dave just thinks he wins............
Round Three:
'Well look after yourself until next visit' says Dave smiling.
When Dave dismisses you it's hardball - uh oh, i thought he would be happy with the ghost victory i let him have. He's gotten cocky and thinks he's on a roll obviously........
'What about the bloody sump Dave ?'
'I haven't got the acrylic yet so i can't work out the price yet, we'll work it out so don't stress'
DON"T STRESS !!!! - it's not just me is it, like he's telling me not to stress about not being allowed to pay him money........ it's all wrong isn't it ?????
'I'm not bloody stressed i just want to know how much it will be at least, just roughly'
'Oh i couldn't say, won't be much though'
'It'll be at least $500- with all that acrylic work and ten mil glass and don't bloody argue Dave, i'm going see ya next week mate' - and I walked off on him towards the front door grinning to myself waving bye to the round three loser..........
Dave was in another room and at least 20 feet away from me as i walked out the front door of the main shop room and i could taste victory - TASTE IT !
The faint words from the fish room wiped the smile off my face as my foot was about to touch the outside cement path.......
'More like three hundred, maybe three fifty tops........see ya'
As i drove home it was quiet in the acro ute, i didn't feel like listening to music.......... i was pretty deflated at how the entire visit went and think i might have created a monster by letting Dave think he's a winner sometimes.
I looked in the rear view mirror at the min $500- sump and then added the $100- salt and lastly the $50- component strong..... $650-
In the 45 minutes Dave and i played let me pay for something please i managed to hand over $45-
Since old Davey boy needs pulling back into line i have decided to play the cash and dash maneuver i once described to Dom
I will wait until Dave is on the other side of the counter and literally throw the extra $50- notes at him that i deem appropriate when i pay for the sump and run out of the shop into the ute - locking the doors so he can't throw any cash back at me AND drive off !
Dom knows i'll actually do it.........
I'll answer everyone's posts after i have some dinner
LOL, this is Dave all over.
Sounds like you had a tough battle on your hands
biggles
Premium Member
So you're saying don't waste my money on the stuff then........
Hey Andrew,
Tanks is looking brilliant as usual
You need to get that sump installed & sorted so we can bring those toys over & get them installed lol.
We end up with a BSC of 4.46, Dave is going to hate me when I tell him we need a bigger sump! but damn, he'll hate you more for being the one that instigated it all!
Hey Ken, how are you Jen going mate - well i hope.
Sump is going in tomorrow, just finished salting up the 8 x 25L RO drums. I already run a high tech sump setup so the toys wouldn't make much of a difference imo.
Made the alloy light bracket and attached the two rails it slides on to the stand legs. The new sump will be 2" off the stand end panel and finish about 3/4" short of the right legs. And i made the basket to sit in the skimmer section.
I used 2" x 1" for the end bits so the lighting unit twin on off buttons are clear - up top for thinking campers......
biggles
Premium Member
LOL, this is Dave all over.
Sounds like you had a tough battle on your hands
Hey John, Dave is a one of a kind as you know lol.......
He has black egg crate John......... BLACK !!!!! :celeb2:
It's well known that acro frags grow faster when placed on black egg crate, it also dampens noise and water borne pump vibrations which is why the stealth fighter is black. I can't go into details of why black is the quietest color because the info is still classified under the US secrecy act but i go to a lot of trouble to use as much black stuff as possible around the sump because if it's still a secret - it obviously works - it's not rocket science to work these things out for yourselves people..........:reading:
The ATO stand for instance isn't just black. It has a hollow resonance chamber inside which draws in noise waves and on the other side out of sight it has a metal grounding rod attached at two opposite points on the stand rim in a design not dissimilar to the handles they put on heavy duty buckets etc. Stealth sump...........:smokin:
slavetonet
New member
You are good at reading between the lines Andrew.
Yes don't buy at all. Buy siporax as it will serve you better x5 for the same cost of 1 marine block.
Yes don't buy at all. Buy siporax as it will serve you better x5 for the same cost of 1 marine block.
biggles
Premium Member
Thanks Mike, i have lots of room now for impulse acro purchases......
It is indeed a mystery mate, unlike the much noisier white stuff......:hammer:
Thanks mate, i just thought it would be handy for cramped spots but i'll stick to my matrix. :thumbsup:
Thanks Sahin, he's pretty legendary for his sump whispering.........
Thanks Mike, i have two 4 x 24W T5 units. I'm going to ask Dave to find or make me a 24" RB LED bar to sit between the units - for the shimmer and giggle value
It's Sunday night and after midnight i will be on holidays for 7 days........ not that it's really a holiday with all the stuff i will be doing with the new sump etc.......
Couple of things to mention.
Forgot to say Bulent i tested the phos at 0.024 and nitrates at 5 several days ago, sorry for not posting it earlier mate.
AF DIY Comp 123 Update:
Feeding the fish, weekly water changes and now using the AF DIY balling solutions instead of the plain Randy's recipe stuff. No other changes. The sump swap might upset the acros for a couple of days so i'll let you know where things are at.
The calcium, Mg and K have all followed the alk in their level readings so i'll just give you the alk dosing over the first 7 days.
Monday:
Started at 7.7 and dosed 200ml - alk rose to 8.2 by Tue morning.
Tuesday:
Dosed 100ml to drop alk back down.
Wednesday:
Alk tested 7.7 - nailed it :smokin:
Dosed 150ml
Thursday:
Alk tested 7.2 - what the ? Broke out new Salifert alk test and got the same reading.
Dosed 160ml
Friday:
Alk tested 7.0 - now i used the calibration fluid to double check the test kit.
Dosed 170ml
Saturday:
Alk tested 6.8 - had a good look at the acros and see signs of tip growth appearing on quite a few. This is a bit fast and spooky thought i........:uhoh3:
Dosed 190ml to get ahead of this runaway alk train........
Sunday:
Alk: 7.0 used new alk kit to re check even though i promised myself after the calibration check that i would trust the kit.....:rolleye1:
Calcium: 410
Mg: 1300
K: 410
Uh, that's not exactly bolting ahead........... this is a joke !
Dosed 220ml and i better see a sizeable increase in the alk tomorrow morning........ :twitch:
And no it isn't precipitation or stray voltage - something nutty weird is going on........... AF nutty weird.......... :crazy1:
DiscusHeckel
Acropora Gardener
Thank you Andrew. Your nutrient test results are very similar to mine. I am following your new sump adventure with interest.
Best wishes
Bülent
biggles
Premium Member
Thanks Bulent, it's almost zero hour for the sump change over to begin......... :twitch:
There's lots more boring sumpy stuff to follow because i intend having the whole job finished and the new system running by lunch time. I may be a goof ball but when it comes to my babies in the display i get serious in my preparations to minimize any chance for a disaster.
Anyway, some of you might pick up a few ideas to use when you upgrade your lame sumps in preparation for the upcoming xmas coolest sump competition........ and you know i will stop at nothing to win........ good luck chumps....
I will take the display offline and use the lights to keep the water warm - fine for a few hours with a litre or two of RO thrown in along the way. Main thing is the acros won't know anything has happened until i turn the return pump on, then who knows what will happen......... :blown:
I have an eheim 1250 with a 1/2" pvc hose on it to use as a siphon pump to drain the sump water into the 100L black plastic tub i have for emergencies. The media baskets will go in here with a 200W heater and tunze 6025 nano stream - fine for hours so bio filtration die off minimized.
Take all the equipment out and disconnect the return hose and remove the union barrelled overflow and emergency pipes. The tap manifold has a slow leak so i will add more teflon tape and fix it while it's off. I replaced the old one with an offset one to get around the center baffle being in the way on the new sump. Just added a couple of 135" elbows reversed to each other to move the pipe sideways enough :thumbsup:
Put the old sump out the back and place the bloody heavy new sump into place. Fill it with the 200L of AF sea salt i have mixed and place the heaters in to warm the water. I will place the eheim pump in the return pump chamber and the hose into the overflow chamber so the entire sump water volume cycles through as if it was running online. When warm enough i will transfer the media baskets to the frag section and continue cycling with the hose outlet going into a 100 micron felt sock. This way the water will be the right temp and clean of crap when it goes online.
I will test the alk etc of the new water and adjust as the sea salt is low in important elements.
I will also test the system water before i start to see where the levels are at on day 8.
I just realized i didn't actually tell Dom i was doing the sump today......... regardless of that he should have read the post i made the other day about when and where he was required. It's almost 9am and no bloody sign of him. He worked last night so i might wait until 10am to send him a filthy text......
Wouldn't want to wake little lazy arse sleepy head Dom Dom would we people........
It's not like i need a hand lifting the $%$#@ heavy sump into place or anything Dom.......
There's lots more boring sumpy stuff to follow because i intend having the whole job finished and the new system running by lunch time. I may be a goof ball but when it comes to my babies in the display i get serious in my preparations to minimize any chance for a disaster.
Anyway, some of you might pick up a few ideas to use when you upgrade your lame sumps in preparation for the upcoming xmas coolest sump competition........ and you know i will stop at nothing to win........ good luck chumps....
I will take the display offline and use the lights to keep the water warm - fine for a few hours with a litre or two of RO thrown in along the way. Main thing is the acros won't know anything has happened until i turn the return pump on, then who knows what will happen......... :blown:
I have an eheim 1250 with a 1/2" pvc hose on it to use as a siphon pump to drain the sump water into the 100L black plastic tub i have for emergencies. The media baskets will go in here with a 200W heater and tunze 6025 nano stream - fine for hours so bio filtration die off minimized.
Take all the equipment out and disconnect the return hose and remove the union barrelled overflow and emergency pipes. The tap manifold has a slow leak so i will add more teflon tape and fix it while it's off. I replaced the old one with an offset one to get around the center baffle being in the way on the new sump. Just added a couple of 135" elbows reversed to each other to move the pipe sideways enough :thumbsup:
Put the old sump out the back and place the bloody heavy new sump into place. Fill it with the 200L of AF sea salt i have mixed and place the heaters in to warm the water. I will place the eheim pump in the return pump chamber and the hose into the overflow chamber so the entire sump water volume cycles through as if it was running online. When warm enough i will transfer the media baskets to the frag section and continue cycling with the hose outlet going into a 100 micron felt sock. This way the water will be the right temp and clean of crap when it goes online.
I will test the alk etc of the new water and adjust as the sea salt is low in important elements.
I will also test the system water before i start to see where the levels are at on day 8.
I just realized i didn't actually tell Dom i was doing the sump today......... regardless of that he should have read the post i made the other day about when and where he was required. It's almost 9am and no bloody sign of him. He worked last night so i might wait until 10am to send him a filthy text......
Wouldn't want to wake little lazy arse sleepy head Dom Dom would we people........
It's not like i need a hand lifting the $%$#@ heavy sump into place or anything Dom.......
