A warning about toxicity. A MUST read.

I use regular yellow rubber gloves or latex gloves each and every time I handle my corals...not to keep from killing myself, but to limit the toxins I might transmit to my corals from my hands...Do you really think zoas that could kill or hurt humans from casual contact would be sold at your local LFS?

I have touched many a brown button polyp, only to come away with a sticky feeling on my fingers...I chew snuff and would have killed myself by now if they were that toxic.

Dirt
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10048523#post10048523 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by joedirt54
.Do you really think zoas that could kill or hurt humans from casual contact would be sold at your local LFS?


Dirt
Click to expand...


Lionfish, Rabbitfish, Haddoni Anemones, Urchins, even blue ring Octopus. Nah, your LFS couldn't possibly sell Zoanthids that could hurt or even kill you........
 
Say I have been reading about this stuff yesterday but everywhere I looked I could not find anything about what types of corals on the market that contain the stuff. Is it just zoanthids in general that contain the poison or is it a particular type that has it. Is their some list that contains a list of corals that has it. It would be preferable to have all the common generic names listed just because to prevent confusion about the various corals.
 
Taken from the magazine "Coral", is an article written by Daniel Knop.

In it he states "Aoanthids aren't very popular with German reef aquarist, in part, because of their very nature---- after all, SOME OF THE SPECIES produce one of the most toxic posions known: Palytoxin."

He goes on to state that it is the Proopalythoa species that contains it, he also goes on to state some of the characteristic's of the species that do contain it such as the ability of the species to contract to an almost flat sheet and, simultaineously relase the toxin and also their fast propagation rate and how it also would cause most of his fish to jump out of the water whenever the toxin was released and how it killed many of the coral's in his aquarium. He says even the most inexperienced aquarist can tell the difference.

So everyone can calm down, and not throw out their Zonanthids, I'm pretty sure none of these species would make it to your local fish store, and if they did, I'm sure many of you would be dead by now and this thread wouldnt be 13 pages nor would their be a subforum deadicated to Zoanthids.

This is sort of like the Ricin thing, where it is made from Castor beans, but eating Castor bean's isnt going to kill you.
 
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From what i have gathereed on all this, the Zooanthids aren't toxic.

It's the Palythoas that are deadly, and not all of them at that.

Button polyps are the dangerous ones, again, not all of them.

and, the toxin would have to be introduced in larger amounts than just a small open cut on your hand being in the very diluted palytoxin in the aquarium.

now, i could see if the man was fragging his polyps and there was a fair amount of palytoxin released that the dog ingested.

Another thing, it is a dog, therefore it's a bit smaller than a human and it would take less palytoxin to be fatal than it would take in a human.

Now i don't think we should get a false sense of securrity though.

The most toxic animal on earth is infact found in many people's aquariums.

And if you don't think your LFS would sell it to you, think again.

I can buy a black mamba if i want to for about 300$, or a monacled cobra for about 100$

You can also get an octopus with Cyonide in it's beutiful blue rings at some LFS.

The red eft(the juvinile form of the eastern newt) can sometimes be bought at reptile expos, and is very toxic.

for that matter, you can purchase or even find brown recluse spiders for a very small anmount.

just be carefull.

I, honestly, don't like button polyps in the first place, but am obsessed with zooanthids.

Know what you're buying, and know what's dangerous.
 
Dufus, Are you serious that button polyps is toxin? I been fragging bare hand without gloves. Now that I know... It had spook me. Where did you get these information?
 
well so far the biologist & scientist documents state that its only been extracted from those 2 certain Palythoas. i think that is why they called it Paly-toxin, cause it lives in Palythoas, what needs to be done, is some of the most common species of Zoanthus NOT PALYTHOA sent for research, aquaculterd specimens NOT WILD CAUGHT, it is a known fact that some animals only get there toxins from there diet, this could be so with the zoas. alot of peop[le still dont know the difference between Zoanthus & Palythoa & zoanthus might be getting the blame for paly's reactions on humans & dogs.

also there has been research found that other corals, such as Favia, Goniopora,Euphyillia (Hammer Coral) & other mainly LPS corals carry toxins that can cuase or infict paralyzing toxins. if i remember correctly Acropora was even listed. (i'll double check later)
& most of us have had problems with flatworms, has anyone researched the toxins on these little fellows ? even the Discovery channel had a show about them !

also i suffered a posioning, but i didnt have zoas, i was actually handeling Dendronepthya every day, part of a External container feeding method i created, i was handeling it 2x a day every day. then one day it stung me. 2 days later i was in the hospital & i couldnt breath. took almost 3 weeks to regian breath but i was left with a defect in my left heart muscle, a heart murmur that never existed before the sting.

so the point is all corals & inverts & even some fish have the ability to kill or paralyze us. it just takes the right dose & the right sting.
 
Oh MY GOSH - I can't believe I read the bulk of this thread! What a bunch of crap. Most people are experiencing allergic reactions - they just didn't know they were allergic to certain sea creatures. The best piece of info came from the guy with the PH D. It's too bad the thread could not attract any marine biologist. Just a bunch of folks with 2 cents, 3 cents and 4 cents. I am saying what I am saying here because I just wasted 50 minutes of my life on this crap!!!!
 
hear is my 4 cents after reading many minutes of this.
jest got done moveing all my zoos and rock to get out a
damsal, with a cut or two on my hands than I read this thread.
I'll let you know how I make out!
 
I am currently writing a term paper on palytoxin. I will provide a link to a pdf of my paper here when I'm done if that's okay. It will be all based on peer reviewed journal articles. So far I've read that palytoxin analogues have also been found in a sea anemone Radianthus macrodactylus (Mahnir et al. 1992), dinoflagellates (Lenoir et al., 2004) and I believe as others have mentioned it can be sequestered by marine animals so it has also been found in crabs and fishes. Palytoxin is also a skin tumor promoter by modifying cellular signaling involved with growth factors (Wattenberg, 2007). Dogs are more resistant to the hemolytic affects of the toxin because they lack the amount of Na+ K+ ATPase in their erythrocytes (Bottinger et al., 1986). I haven't read this whole thread but there are other affects both sudden and delayed, perhaps all this has already been mentioned here.
 
Oh one more thing in case it hasnt been noted, palytoxin was found to be highly toxic by the USDA when administered IV, intramuscular or subcutaneous, but quite ineffective when ingested orally - so the main concern comes from when you have a cut and you don't wear gloves.
 
LOL, I have that paper right in front of me! I think that's a very nice explanation and very interesting - and I'm not a chemist.
 
I'm glad that there are alot of you guys out there doing some research with this because I never knew they could do this much harm and I will think twice about not wearing gloves when handling such an interesting creature.
 
yeah palytoxin is no joke - there was a study in 1990 that found it was the strongest inducer of prostaglandin synthesis to date... it promotes skin tumors in a number of ways... not to mention it destroys red blood cells by causing them to lose all their potassium... and cardiac failure due to spasms of cardiac muscle and vasoconstriction - all at picomolar concentrations

look up clupeotoxism this has also been linked to eating fishes contaminated by palytoxin
 
thanks

thanks

man that was a good thing to know that they are poisonous.... i been poking it with my finger.. but HEY i'm not dead yet ... hahaha
 
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