SNAKEMANVET
PREMIUM MEMBER
Will a substrate protect the parasite during hypo,from what I have read the parasite will make a dive for the substrate.Is the only reason for a bare bottom to prevent killing the bacteria in the sand bed.
? about hypo
- Thread starter SNAKEMANVET
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MrTuskfish
Team RC
The substrate will not protect ich, the low SG (and resulting decreased outside pressure) are what kill it. When using meds, substrate will absorb them, that's the main reason for a bare bottom. Substrate or not, hypo won't kill ich in all its life-stages; neither will anything else, that wouldn't also kill the fish.
SNAKEMANVET
PREMIUM MEMBER
Thanks for clairyfing that.I appreciate it.
Tin_Whistler
Mayor of Podunk
Having a barebottom tank for a hospital/QT tank is more about parameter control.
It’s a lot easier to remove waste that causes ammonia/nitrates if you can vacuum that up while doing a water change. Keeping sand in there will give a spot for that junk to lay, and leech into your water.
Having a sandbed or other substrate in there won’t negatively affect the disease treatment, but I’m of the opinion it’s a lot easier to go without it.
It’s a lot easier to remove waste that causes ammonia/nitrates if you can vacuum that up while doing a water change. Keeping sand in there will give a spot for that junk to lay, and leech into your water.
Having a sandbed or other substrate in there won’t negatively affect the disease treatment, but I’m of the opinion it’s a lot easier to go without it.
sandwi54
New member
Substrate will not protect ich. The main reason for bare-bottom is easy waste control (plus you can siphon out ich tomites at the same time).
However, there could be one situation where having substrate would negatively affect hyposalinity treatment. If the sandbed is deep and the water flow through it is inadequate, there may be areas where the water in the sand is not mixed well with the rest of the water, and possibly create zones where the salinity is not in the therapeutic range. What I would do in this case is that once the desired salinity is achieved (1.008 - 1.009), stir all of the substrate to mix the water well. This way there is a lower risk of ich survival.
However, there could be one situation where having substrate would negatively affect hyposalinity treatment. If the sandbed is deep and the water flow through it is inadequate, there may be areas where the water in the sand is not mixed well with the rest of the water, and possibly create zones where the salinity is not in the therapeutic range. What I would do in this case is that once the desired salinity is achieved (1.008 - 1.009), stir all of the substrate to mix the water well. This way there is a lower risk of ich survival.
SNAKEMANVET
PREMIUM MEMBER
I have a 1 to 1.5'' sand bed.I am doing hypo in my main tank,that way I still have water circulation and sump.I raised the water level in my sump so the skimmer will skim,and it is still doing pretty good.I tested my ammonia which was 0 and ph is at 8.1.The crushed coral substrate is helping keep the ph up.I also notice the hypo has wiped out the red flat worm problem I had.I will stir the substrate to help break up any spots may keep salinity up.
SNAKEMANVET
PREMIUM MEMBER
Ok ,I am starting to wonder.My blue tang still has new white spots showing up.They have been in hypo for 8 days now.I took my refractormeter/and water sample to the lfs and it is correct.My salinity is at 1.008.
sandwi54
New member
8 days is usually not long enough to totally eradicate ich. When the free-swimming ich (theront) is formed, if it's able to attach to a host before it succumbs to the low salinity, then it can survive and restart the life cycle.
When I did hypo, it took me 2 months to get rid of all the ich. Remember, you need to keep the fish in hypo 4 weeks after the LAST spot is seen. Then raise the salinity slowly (no more than 0.002 per day) and observe for another 4 weeks. This last 4 weeks of observation is important and do not skip it.
When I did hypo, it took me 2 months to get rid of all the ich. Remember, you need to keep the fish in hypo 4 weeks after the LAST spot is seen. Then raise the salinity slowly (no more than 0.002 per day) and observe for another 4 weeks. This last 4 weeks of observation is important and do not skip it.
SNAKEMANVET
PREMIUM MEMBER
Thanks sandwi54 ,I didn't know how long it takes a theront to become a visiable white spot.So 8 weeks at 1.008 will be ok.I was looking at 6 weeks then raiseing salinity back up.All the other fish are acting normal/ no spots.
sandwi54
New member
No problem snake. The key thing is that you closely monitor and see when the last spot disappears, and wait four weeks. If during those four weeks any spot reappears, then the clock resets. it doesn't matter how long the entire hypo process ends up to be. you may wait months before you see the last spot. what makes hypo successful is that you wait 4 weeks after the last spot disappears.
SNAKEMANVET
PREMIUM MEMBER
Thanks HAFFs09, I am not in hurry I want this parasite gone.
SNAKEMANVET
PREMIUM MEMBER
My blue tang is still haveing spots popping up,today marks 14 days in hypo.I check salinity everyday it is at 1.008.
SNAKEMANVET
PREMIUM MEMBER
When lights came on this morning the blue tang has more white spots than it has ever had.All other fish look great.
SNAKEMANVET
PREMIUM MEMBER
Today my naso has a few spots,I can't figure out why they keep appearing after 20 days of hypo.
Excellent
MrTuskfish
Team RC
Interesting thread, it seems info on ich & hypo varies considerably among hobbyists. I think sandwi54's post #8 above will answer your question. Some parasites are still able to reach the fish before bursting due to the hypo. I assume that when the fish is very close to the emerging new theronts; possibly at night. Some strains of these parasites just seem tough than others too (IMO). A basic question; you are using a well calibrated refractometer and not a hydrometer, right?
MrTuskfish
Team RC
Very.
SNAKEMANVET
PREMIUM MEMBER
I am useing a refractormeter,that I checked with 2 other meters at the lfs.I am thinking these spots might be a secondary bacterial infection.The spots are alittle bigger than the ich spots.The naso and hippo are the only ones with these spots. can I use macryn 1 or 2 during hypo right.
sandwi54
New member
When the spots come back, do they come back in a large number? If that is the case, then I'd suspect something is not right with the treatment. Just to make sure, the water circulation in the tank is good right? This is a very remote possibility but could there be some pockets of water that are not at 1.008-1.009? From my experience it usually does take longer to get rid of ich through hypo than cupramine, but the spots shouldn't come back in great numbers. Perhaps you have a strain of ich that is stronger than the typical one.
There are posts all over the web with people taking long periods of time to treat ich with hypo (the longest one I have read is 4 months). Ich may have been mutating to become more resistant to hyposalinity, but that question is left to marine microbiologists to answer. I don't think there's much you can do at this point so just sit tight and keep waiting. If another month goes by and the situation doesn't improve, I would just bite the bullet and get all the fish into a QT for cupramine treatment.
There are posts all over the web with people taking long periods of time to treat ich with hypo (the longest one I have read is 4 months). Ich may have been mutating to become more resistant to hyposalinity, but that question is left to marine microbiologists to answer. I don't think there's much you can do at this point so just sit tight and keep waiting. If another month goes by and the situation doesn't improve, I would just bite the bullet and get all the fish into a QT for cupramine treatment.
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