About ready to throw in the towel

[xtlosx]

It was usually a few weeks after a water change that I would see things starting to down hill... a bit of cyano forming, less PE on SPS, things just didn't look great. So, I would do what anyone would do and perform another water change... unknowingly making things worse. It's almost like at some point, I did the water change that "broke the camels back". More cyano world form, SPS would start to lose tissue, and I would continue to do water changes while trying to figure out what the problem was. Eventually, it would come time to change the RODI filters (as normally scheduled), but since good things happen so slowly in this hobby, it took me awhile to figure out that the filter change was solving the problem.

Well if that's the case, in a week or so, should start getting better.... so far, it's getting better and cyano is burning out all over the place. From the pictures you can see the sand cyano is burned out going away cyano and not fresh matting.

 

[dja1980]

Definitely check out that 2nd thread I linked to above related to Chlorine. Thanks to my experience, I learned more about RODI systems than I ever cared to know! I'm glad to hear that is sounds like your tank is back on the right track!

 

[xtlosx]

Definitely check out that 2nd thread I linked to above related to Chlorine. Thanks to my experience, I learned more about RODI systems than I ever cared to know! I'm glad to hear that is sounds like your tank is back on the right track!

Well, there's other reasons I think this has more to do with rock and moving the other rock pillar than anything. The rock in my fuge was all the same dry rock, and hadn't started changing colors yet (maturing) and when this mini cycle happened, ALL of the rock in the fuge, and my macro got covered in that red matted turf type algae.... Since changing the RO filters entirely, changing GFO\Carbon often, including that huge chunk of chaeto, it's all going away in the fuge....

With seeing the cyano on my grates in the DT going away, the fuge rock started to become visible again, honestly I think we're getting toward the tail end.. unfortunatey, several of my chalices are basically goners... whatever it is, it's a nasty cycle.

Would adding some more rock in my fuge help with providing more bacteria to handle more swings like this in the future, or will just giving the tank time to mature even more be just fine? More rock likely can't hurt can it?

 

[bryman]

Sounds like you are on the right path. This happens to most tanks at least a few times at the beginning. Adding more LR in the sump is a good idea to help stabilize the system. Over time with more corals added, things will get better because the excess nutrients will be used up. Cyanobacter is one of the oldest forms of life on the planet and can be fueled by many sources. I'm not sure what is in the DT now, but adding more flow can help too. Hang in there, we all have frustrating times like this!

 

[xtlosx]

Sounds like you are on the right path. This happens to most tanks at least a few times at the beginning. Adding more LR in the sump is a good idea to help stabilize the system. Over time with more corals added, things will get better because the excess nutrients will be used up. Cyanobacter is one of the oldest forms of life on the planet and can be fueled by many sources. I'm not sure what is in the DT now, but adding more flow can help too. Hang in there, we all have frustrating times like this!

Thanks Bryman... I must've been spoiled with my 60 cube because the rock ALL came from a 2.5 yr old tank and wasn't ever dry.. went from another reefers tank to mine in a single day. Had zero cycle. I can't add corals (not SPS) because, well they just die right now. I'm just riding it out, and when it's over, things will be just fine. The interesting part was, when this mini cycle happened last time, it lasted over a month as well, and when it was over, I could do normal WCs no problem. Just during the cycle, WCs fuel it.. I'll add some more rubble once I know its fully cured here shortly.

Thanks for helping me not jump off a cliff guys.

 

[xtlosx]

So in my fuge,some o the cyano is staring to grow on the ends of the chaeto... Think I need more flow in there, but there isn't much room.. Wondering if a small koralia nano might even help just move water around.

d*** you cyano... d*** you.

 

[hoju74]

I was getting some cyano in my fuge and threw a Koralia Nano in there. Seemed to solve the problem.

 

[ptr13]

I was having the same problem with cyano and hair algae and notice since planting caulerpa over the rocks and sand, it is starving the algae bloom I had but most definitely had to do water changes, almost every other day. Now I would say that the nem tank is doing better, if you want some algae, I can give you some and help you out. this will help xlos, it was happening to me so I can relate.

 

[xtlosx]

Thanks everyone.. What I found interesting, and still haven't solved it is the odd bacteria I've been getting in the fuge.

basically on the surface of my fuge, there are these chunks that are clear, and literally looks like someone hocked a loogie... I can pick it up, and remove it, but comes back every few days. Doing some googling, all I found was it's a "bacterial bloom" and will go away in time, but sadly doesn't provide me any comfort now. I'm not sure what is going on, but it's frustrating..

This rock SHOULD be cured shortly, and will add several more pounds of natural filtration. Hoping that with time, it will go away.... Gigs are doing fine though, and that's really the most important thing to me.

 

[Jblank44]

Are you running a phosban reactor or a uv sterilizer? Tell us a little about the filtration/dumb/refuigium

 

[xtlosx]

So wanted to provide a quick update.. The pictures I posted in this thread earlier, were the start of this nasty cycle. It's funny, this exact same cycle in terms of what it did, time, etc all happened before, and it's on its way out...

From the pictures above, to last week or two, the cyano basically took over about 60% of my rock, if not a little bit more... Matting... even in the sand too. With weekly water changes, careful on feeding and using Carbon\GFO... huge patches of it now all over are burning out and I can see the pretty dark\purple coraline rock underneath.

The exact same thing happened last time... Little cyano... LOT of cyano matting for 1-3 weeks, and then it just fizzles away overnight like it never happened. I put more cured rubble into the fuge in hopes of the extra rock helping. Who knows, but it's on its way out..

Like everyone always says... patience in this hobby is huge, and just let nature run its course.

 

[xtlosx]

Another update...

Did another WC on Wednesday, and it looks like my patience is paying off. My prize chalice that went from 15 eyes to about 3 has stopped receeding, and is actually regrowing. I picked up 5 small SPS frags after not being able ot keep the in the beginning of the cycle, and now they are doing well... Polyp extension and I see growth.... Sand is getting cleaner, and a LOT of the crap on my rocks is slowly going away.

One thing that helped a lot was during a WC using the hose to just vacuum all cyano, stuck detritus and other gunk off my rocks...

Patience, hard work, and persistance is paying off... I'm not breaking down this tank darnit. I love it way too much and now it's starting to look beautiful again.

Thanks to everyone who told me to suck it up and just keep going!

 

[xtlosx]

So a quick update..

Problems persisted but at some point, probably about a month or so ago, my SPS stopped dying, and has actually started growing. Cyano was still everywhere, covering almost ALL of the rock, and entire sand. I did water changes, and nothing happened, in fact it got WORSE...

This weekend, I put three large bags of chemipure elite in the sump, and I am still running my reactor with carbon\gfo.. That did help a small bit but the breakthrough started Saturday. I bought a bottle of Microbact7 and started dosing per their instructions.. Saturday night, I started seeing white sand and clean rock in spots.. Sunday it got better, and today, about half of my sand is now spotless and white.

I'm starting to wonder if my tank just needed some biodiversity to help remove the excess nutrients.. This is the cleanest my tank has looked at 10AM in 4 months.

 

[dja1980]

Cyano was still everywhere, covering almost ALL of the rock, and entire sand. I did water changes, and nothing happened, in fact it got WORSE...

This weekend, I put three large bags of chemipure elite in the sump, and I am still running my reactor with carbon\gfo.. That did help a small bit but the breakthrough started Saturday. I bought a bottle of Microbact7 and started dosing per their instructions..

Man, I still think something is getting through your RO/DI. This sounds so similar to what I was going though with my maintenance account, it's scary! I did ChemiPure & ChemiClean, which would help tremendously temporarily... but I was just going round and round with this cycle. It wasn't until I got VERY aggressive with the RO/DI filter changes (especially the carbon block) that things turned around. If you get a chance, go back an re-read my post on 7/17. Good luck!

 

[xtlosx]

Man, I still think something is getting through your RO/DI. This sounds so similar to what I was going though with my maintenance account, it's scary! I did ChemiPure & ChemiClean, which would help tremendously temporarily... but I was just going round and round with this cycle. It wasn't until I got VERY aggressive with the RO/DI filter changes (especially the carbon block) that things turned around. If you get a chance, go back an re-read my post on 7/17. Good luck!

Appreciate the comment, and since July, I've changed every component in my RO system. I change everything religiously... To be honest, I do not think it's the RO system. Reason being, it hasn't followed a pattern, so it started again when I moved a rock and exposed about 1-2" of rock that was under the sand. it must have totally thrown off my system.

I'm at the point now where SPS are not dying, but they are actively growing and coloring up very nice. Today is day #3 of the MicroBact7 dosing, and I am seeing more and more of my rock that has been covered under cyano for months... I haven't seen so much of my sand in a long time. Honestly, I just think my biological filter needed a little bit of a shot in the arm.

I'll post updates in the next couple of days with progress, but it hasn't looked this good in a long time.. I'm very hopeful we are getting to the end of this non-sense.

 

[dja1980]

I don't know... it just seems that if water changes are causing things to get worse... that should be telling you something. What is the micron size of the carbon block you use on your RO/DI? I only ask because if you are using 1 micron (in my situation), it would've been exhausted after only 1.5 months. A .5 micron carbon filters buys me 3 months. I could have continued using chemical treatments to band-aid the situation (and believe me, the tank looked better than ever using ChemiClean), but I finally figured out the source... just don't want you to have to keep going through the same thing. Anyway, just keep the RO/DI in the back of your mind in case things start to go downhill again. Either way... I wish you luck.

 

[xtlosx]

I don't know... it just seems that if water changes are causing things to get worse... that should be telling you something. What is the micron size of the carbon block you use on your RO/DI? I only ask because if you are using 1 micron (in my situation), it would've been exhausted after only 1.5 months. A .5 micron carbon filters buys me 3 months. I could have continued using chemical treatments to band-aid the situation (and believe me, the tank looked better than ever using ChemiClean), but I finally figured out the source... just don't want you to have to keep going through the same thing. Anyway, just keep the RO/DI in the back of your mind in case things start to go downhill again. Either way... I wish you luck.

Trust me, i appreciate the input, it's a frustrating situation... I don't know what size micron my carbon block is, I'm just using the BRS 75gpd system.. I changed those recently, but wondering what will happen if I change it again. They aren't expensive and it would be interesting.. I need to go back through my orders and see, but pretty sure it's .5 micron. Going into my DI resin the TDS is 3-4 which is just fine.

The one thing I have not changed is the membrane yet..

 

[dja1980]

The carbon block protects the membrane from chlorine and chloramines. If you had an exhausted carbon filter, and chlorine got through, it could've fried your membrane depending on the amount of exposure. Again, I learned more about RO/DI systems than I ever cared to know from my experience. It might be worth a pre- & post-membrane chlorine test to see if anything is getting through. Did you ever get a chance to check out this thread I posted in July?

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2093024

 

[skunkmere]

i dont think that the ro membrane really gets damaged, but that chlorine and chloramine pass through. chicago water has a total chlorine of 1.00ppm.

 

[dja1980]

According to SpectraPure, chlorine will in fact degrade the membrane, and my maintenance account served as proof of this. We started with a new membrane with 002 Post-Membrane TDS. Only 5 years later, we were getting 016 Post-Membrane TDS... this is Downers Grove water containing total chlorine of 1.00ppm.

My personal system is in Sycamore, where we have zero detectable total chlorine in our tap, so I've never paid much attention to changing my carbon block. In fact, my new membrane also started at 002 Post-Membrane TDS, and I just changed it last month (6 years later) when it hit 003 Post-Membrane TDS (same sized system and water change frequencies).

Unfortunately, lack of monitoring and changing the carbon block in Downers Grove caused severe degradation of the membrane, and led to severe consequences in the tank.

From the thread I posted...

Total chlorine is the combination of free chlorine and chloramine.

It is free Chlorine that damages membranes, not chloramine.

The spec for membranes is "less than 0.1 ppm free chlorine".

Scott
SpectraPure, Inc.