About ready to throw in the towel

[xtlosx]

Absolutely frustrated right now, pulling my hair out trying to figure this out, and just am not sure if I have the energy anymore.

My 150 has been running since December, with 150# of dry marco rock, 125# of dry sand, cycled, everything was perfect until my random cyano outbreak 3 months into the tank. Lost several fish to ich, but within about a month, ALL of the matting (which was only on the rock) went away and tank was perfect. Everything was great including both Gigs.

About a month ago, I moved one of the pillars a tiny bit, and exposed the white rock that was in the sand. Two or so weeks later, it started happening again, but in a smaller amount, with no stress on the fish. I'm losing my chalice(s) slowly but surely, my green gig is moving a little as of this morning and I just don't understand what the problem is. Water parameters are all spot on, Phosphates are barely .25ppm. Water changes seem to aggravate the situation and I was hoping a couple of weeks and it would work itself out, but it's not at this point.

I am changing both GFO and Carbon weekly to be overly cautious and rip out as much of the crap as I can but nothing seems to be working. Someone talk me off a ledge, but I just don't understand what is happening here. My 60 cube I enjoyed taking care of, this tank, seems like it's the tank from hell.. I'm in the process of getting a bunch of rubble that wasn't cured done right now as I thought maybe I don't have enough rock? I just don't understand... anyone?

 

[skunkmere]

.25ppm PO4 is alot isnt it. you can use lanthum chloride to drop the
po4 then use the gfo to get it lower. maybe its your carbon, i dont trust running carbon anymore. how are your temps?

 

[xtlosx]

.25ppm PO4 is alot isnt it. you can use lanthum chloride to drop the
po4 then use the gfo to get it lower. maybe its your carbon, i dont trust running carbon anymore. how are your temps?

Temp averages 80.7. I've been running carbon since the beginning, it just doesn't make sense to me how everything was just fine for months, then one day this happened, burned itself out, then came back. To mention, it only came back after I exposed some of the white parts of the rock that were in the sand for the first few months. It's just a nasty little cycle I guess. Now for the first time, there's spots on my sand bed (dark red) crap.

I started making 20G of water right now and will do a WC when its ready. I'm at my wits end.

 

[skunkmere]

try carbon dosing if you got a good skimmer. i did and wont look back on my 90g.

 

[Tank2379]

Was the Sand used or New when you put it in the Tank? Also is there a reason you need to change GFO every week and Carbon? I usually do it once a month but I have a smaller 60G Cube. Also I wouldn't freak out about getting a small cycle I would try using Special Blend made by Microbe-Lift, It took care of my cycle issues when I keep getting them after a few months of having my tank up and running stuff works amazing.... I would recommend givinig it a try if you like.

 

[Pastey]

Keep in mind that your tank is still somewhat young. Non-mature tanks are going to have outbreaks. I wouldn't sweat the cyano unless it just gets WAY out of control. Keep up a solid water change regiment, carefully monitor what goes in the tank and keep regular maintenance up. As your tank matures, you'll see less and less of these types of issues.

 

[xtlosx]

try carbon dosing if you got a good skimmer. i did and wont look back on my 90g.

I did carbon dose in my 60 cube some time back, something I will revisit in this tank since I am where I am.. Thank you.

Was the Sand used or New when you put it in the Tank? Also is there a reason you need to change GFO every week and Carbon? I usually do it once a month but I have a smaller 60G Cube. Also I wouldn't freak out about getting a small cycle I would try using Special Blend made by Microbe-Lift, It took care of my cycle issues when I keep getting them after a few months of having my tank up and running stuff works amazing.... I would recommend givinig it a try if you like.

Because it becomes exchausted so quickly. The dry rock is leaching phosphates at a super quick level. Everything was dry and not used, but to me it doesn't make sense how everything was grand for months on end, than one day after nothing changing it started, then went away, then came back two months later.

 

[xtlosx]

Keep in mind that your tank is still somewhat young. Non-mature tanks are going to have outbreaks. I wouldn't sweat the cyano unless it just gets WAY out of control. Keep up a solid water change regiment, carefully monitor what goes in the tank and keep regular maintenance up. As your tank matures, you'll see less and less of these types of issues.

It's not the cyano I'm worried about, it's losing my precious live stock... corals receding, and my Gigs are heading south.

 

[skunkmere]

do you have a deep sandbed?

 

[xtlosx]

do you have a deep sandbed?

Deepest is 3" so not so much.

 

[Tank2379]

I don't think your sandbed is going to be the problem. Where did you get the dry rock from? You said it was used before?

 

[xtlosx]

I don't think your sandbed is going to be the problem. Where did you get the dry rock from? You said it was used before?

All new dry rock from Marco Rocks, sand from Marco as well.

 

[Meanmike]

I did carbon dose in my 60 cube some time back, something I will revisit in this tank since I am where I am.. Thank you.



Because it becomes exchausted so quickly. The dry rock is leaching phosphates at a super quick level. Everything was dry and not used, but to me it doesn't make sense how everything was grand for months on end, than one day after nothing changing it started, then went away, then came back two months later.

I was under the impression that marco didn't leach but clearly I was mistaken. Makes wish I hadn't just ordered 300lbs of it.

 

[xtlosx]

I was under the impression that marco didn't leach but clearly I was mistaken. Makes wish I hadn't just ordered 300lbs of it.

I was told it did not as well, was absolutely assured it didn't leach. What you will notice is (at least for me) the cyano and red mat algae simply was on certain parts of the rock, not the sand, nothing, just rock. Water change, after change, GFO running, etc, eventually after it burned out it went away. Came back when that white dry rock was exposed again. Whatever the heck is in this rock causes big time issues. At this point, Im not sure whether to carbon dose because honestly, I don't have much to lose. Everything is slowly going downhill with no end in sight.

 

[DopeCantWin]

I was told it did not as well, was absolutely assured it didn't leach. What you will notice is (at least for me) the cyano and red mat algae simply was on certain parts of the rock, not the sand, nothing, just rock. Water change, after change, GFO running, etc, eventually after it burned out it went away. Came back when that white dry rock was exposed again. Whatever the heck is in this rock causes big time issues. At this point, Im not sure whether to carbon dose because honestly, I don't have much to lose. Everything is slowly going downhill with no end in sight.

I personally wouldn't carbon dose. Do you have Chaeto running in a fuge? Under what kind of lights? Your Skimmer is a little small, the manufacturer overrates it by a lot, it would be good for a 75-90 gallon. Do you siphon your sand during water changes? Do you have a DSB anywhere?

 

[cbbram]

I personally will never buy dry rock again. I've gone both routes, dry rock and live rock. With dry rock I had the same issues with phosphates for at least a year. I was using BRS Pukani dry rock. With live rock I never had those issues. Depends which route you want to go... it will get better... eventually.

 

[xtlosx]

I personally wouldn't carbon dose. Do you have Chaeto running in a fuge? Under what kind of lights? Your Skimmer is a little small, the manufacturer overrates it by a lot, it would be good for a 75-90 gallon. Do you siphon your sand during water changes? Do you have a DSB anywhere?

I'm picking up some chaeto tonight, I had chaeto but didn't ever grow for me and ended up just essentially doing nothing, so it was removed. Heck that could be the cause of all of my problems but essentially was smothered by bubbles and cyano, so it had to go.

I personally will never buy dry rock again. I've gone both routes, dry rock and live rock. With dry rock I had the same issues with phosphates for at least a year. I was using BRS Pukani dry rock. With live rock I never had those issues. Depends which route you want to go... it will get better... eventually.

Agreed. It did allow us to make perfect scapes and the pillars we wanted, but the true cost to the tank this many months into it, is an absolutely mess. My last 60 cube, was all established rock, and was stocked the same day as the tank was setup, with BTAs, etc and never had any issues whatever in almost two years of being up. I realize this should be better at some point and shouldn't happen, but if the Gigs dont make it the tank doesn't either.

 

[DopeCantWin]

I'm picking up some chaeto tonight, I had chaeto but didn't ever grow for me and ended up just essentially doing nothing, so it was removed. Heck that could be the cause of all of my problems but essentially was smothered by bubbles and cyano, so it had to go.



Agreed. It did allow us to make perfect scapes and the pillars we wanted, but the true cost to the tank this many months into it, is an absolutely mess. My last 60 cube, was all established rock, and was stocked the same day as the tank was setup, with BTAs, etc and never had any issues whatever in almost two years of being up. I realize this should be better at some point and shouldn't happen, but if the Gigs dont make it the tank doesn't either.

Make sure you have the right light and the right intensity for that Chaeto. Check out http://www.melevsreef.com/fuge_bulb.html. Although I personally would recommend a powerful LED bulb in that color range instead of a CFL. Remember that CFL needs to be changed out quite frequently, I was down to every 3-4 months before I replaced them with LEDs. Also what kind of flow is it enduring in what kind of space.

 

[xtlosx]

Make sure you have the right light and the right intensity for that Chaeto. Check out http://www.melevsreef.com/fuge_bulb.html. Although I personally would recommend a powerful LED bulb in that color range instead of a CFL. Remember that CFL needs to be changed out quite frequently, I was down to every 3-4 months before I replaced them with LEDs. Also what kind of flow is it enduring in what kind of space.

I was using a daylight 5k CFL, but went to a comparable LED.. that might be contributing to the extra algae growth in the fuge.. The flow is what comes from the return, so it agitates the surface a bit and otherwise the fuge is reasonably calm. It's not large enough to warrant a powerhead I do not believe.

I'm also wondering if I just simply don't have enough LR to handle whatever little swings are causing these mini cycles... That's why I'm curing another couple pounds of rock in a separate tank during all of this.. Hoping to get that in there soon. The red mat algae in my fuge covers the feather caulerpa even.. When it burns out, it's gone and looks like it was never there.

 

[DopeCantWin]

I was using a daylight 5k CFL, but went to a comparable LED.. that might be contributing to the extra algae growth in the fuge.. The flow is what comes from the return, so it agitates the surface a bit and otherwise the fuge is reasonably calm. It's not large enough to warrant a powerhead I do not believe.

I'm also wondering if I just simply don't have enough LR to handle whatever little swings are causing these mini cycles... That's why I'm curing another couple pounds of rock in a separate tank during all of this.. Hoping to get that in there soon. The red mat algae in my fuge covers the feather caulerpa even.. When it burns out, it's gone and looks like it was never there.

What kind of LED? How many watts? How many watts per LED?

If you're going to stick with that skimmer, I would at a minimum get a Swabbie and set it to wet skim. If you don't have an external container hooked up to that skimmer and have a RKL, I can explain how to set that up with a switch.

Another trick is to use Kalk precipitation to lower those Phosphates.

I wouldn't worry about more live rock. There are many beautiful SPS tanks without live rock at all.