acan maxima
- Thread starter stagcrazy
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organism
code monkey
There are no Acanthastrea maximas in the hobby, they come from a tiny part of the ocean where coral collection is illegal. What you're talking about are mischaracterized Scolymia or Lobophyllia that vendors put the Acan maxima name on because people will pay less for them if they accurately id them. In short, greed exists in this hobby, Acan maximas do not.
SaltyWalter
FUP&A Member
There actually is an orange A. maxima in CT that several members of CTARS have a piece of. One member on here PL-reef has a great looking piece that's growing pretty well, and a LFS has theirs in a display tank which also is doing great, bought from another memeber Useful_Idiot. Look up both names, they have pictures somewhere.
You never know when a colony will come in as a different name, much like the branching Leptoseris that came in as a pavona another LFS in CT last month. (Tweaked and I both have pieces)
Don't be so quick to shoot down these things, out in Indo they collect colonies upon colonies and there's sure to be some that get misidentified and that how a lot of this hobby gets these super rare corals.
SaltyWalter
FUP&A Member
One labeled as Maxima at AquaSD. Thoughts?
Pat, I'm pretty sure that a lobo. At least the left side is. A maxima will grow like other acans, new mouths forming next to existing. That orange side has multiple mouths which leads me to believe its a Lobo in process of splitting.
Tweaked
FUP&A Member
Ya, the seller responded that that's how it was labeled from the supplier. And another place I read said scolys and lobos are sometimes miss-classed as maximas. I have seen the maxima at a guys house here in the state, so knew they were out there. And both pieces are the same here in this pic, look at the mouths, just different colored outers.
dodgerblew
Team RC
One labeled as Maxima at AquaSD. Thoughts?
I saw this piece at his store weekend before last. Came very close to pulling the trigger but ended up buying 3 acan lords instead. It is a very cool piece and the pic isn't enhanced. Looks identical what we are seeing. Will told me same thing, that it came in as a max but he had no idea. I've never seen an acan max in 3d so I can't comment
Patwa
if anyone asks, it's $10
it's easy to tell: acans have polyps that are ceriod......lobos have polyps that are meandroid
the pics from AquaSD that tweaked posted are both 100% lobophyllia
if you want to know what an acan maxima looks like, look to the the large acan cousins for reference: a. hillae and a. bowerbanki......if you can get a good picture of a bowerbanki in your head, blow it up to maybe twice the size and you'll have an image of what an a. maxima SHOULD look like.
but organism is 100% correct: a. maxima is endemic to one area of the world only (granted, it may be found in others, but those have not been recorded as yet)....the Sea of Oman, and maybe the Red Sea area in general are the only locales to find this coral.
I have a big dive trip planned to this very area in early 2015....and the only reason im going is the hope of diving and photographing this coral
the pics from AquaSD that tweaked posted are both 100% lobophyllia
if you want to know what an acan maxima looks like, look to the the large acan cousins for reference: a. hillae and a. bowerbanki......if you can get a good picture of a bowerbanki in your head, blow it up to maybe twice the size and you'll have an image of what an a. maxima SHOULD look like.
but organism is 100% correct: a. maxima is endemic to one area of the world only (granted, it may be found in others, but those have not been recorded as yet)....the Sea of Oman, and maybe the Red Sea area in general are the only locales to find this coral.
I have a big dive trip planned to this very area in early 2015....and the only reason im going is the hope of diving and photographing this coral
Patwa
if anyone asks, it's $10
yes, they don't exist in the hobby....those who say they have an acan maxima are delusional...and if they're a store, then they're trying to scam (for lack of a better word) you.
PL-Reef
Awesome Member
Oh how I love this debate. I've had this conversation countless times over the years.
Don't be so sure of yourself. Yes collection from the Sea of Oman is illegal but your gonna tell me nobody in the whole region surrounding The sea of Oman breaks the law? I highly doubt it. Illegally collected corals have always been a problem. Look at Japan, Florida Keys, Hawaii. There's huge reef sanctuaries all over the world where corals are being illegally harvested and sold in the aquarium trade. To think nobody does because it's against the law is absurd.
Patwa
if anyone asks, it's $10
did I say that or even infer that? the middle east re-defines 'breaking the law' on a daily basis...just watch CNN and so on....but i digress;
show me the pics that show an a. maxima....coz the only ones ive ever seen are from Veron....nobody else has anything that looks remotely like an a. maxima as depicted in Veron's pics (AIMS).
of course, i'm not insinuating they don't exist or that some super rich above-the-law Sheikh living in Saudi Arabia or Egypt doesn't already have a tank full of them.
the context is the North American trade....they don't exist...if they do, post 'em up coz i'd love to see one!
LOL... try and keep focussed. if we're talking illegally harvested corals i can write a master's dissertation on the topic....but i won't coz we're talking about the validity of a. maxima as a species found in the trade
z
SaltyWalter
FUP&A Member
Here's his thread that has a recent pic. I've seen the mother colony in person.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2444359
PL-Reef
Awesome Member
Like I've said I've been done this road more times than I care to remember. And there's always someone like yourself that will argue tooth and nail that they don't exist in the hobby. Some kind of import/export expert.
I have Veron's book myself. I used it for identification.
Don't get me wrong there's a TON of corals being sold as A.Maxima that are mislabeled or vendors trying to cash in on the name. Usually their A.Bowerbanki, A.Hillae or even A.Echinata. I've had them all over the years and held them side by side. Their clearly two different animals. But who am I to say if it is or isnt? I'm just another delusional reefer. :wave:
I have Veron's book myself. I used it for identification.
Don't get me wrong there's a TON of corals being sold as A.Maxima that are mislabeled or vendors trying to cash in on the name. Usually their A.Bowerbanki, A.Hillae or even A.Echinata. I've had them all over the years and held them side by side. Their clearly two different animals. But who am I to say if it is or isnt? I'm just another delusional reefer. :wave:
Patwa
if anyone asks, it's $10
i'll always argue 
i don't declare myself to be an expert, but i use expert advice (in the way of gurus like Veron) to base my opinions.
and if you're a believer in what Veron observed and documented in his book, you'd know the contents are very reliable, right?
he only documents a. maxima from the Sea of Oman (and beyond). However, he did lots of taxonomy work in Australia and Indo. He documented so many genera and species there, but not once did he document a. maxima from the indo-pacific. he found so many acanthastrea all over indo from Japan to Oz...but no maxima. If he says they arent in the indo-pacific, im gonna go with him on that.
so you're going to play the 'what if?' card so that's ok....i see people like you all the time, too
so now you say yours may be from the illegal trade a.k.a. "Japan"or that there's no way anybody can say 100% that maxima does not exist coz how are they going to know every coral that exists in the ocean and so on and so on....sorry if im wrong on both accounts
anyways...what you have has small sized polyps, not even close to maxima proportions (from Veron) how mature is yours? age? ...do you have a pic with the mantle at its fattest? like puffy 3am puffy when it's feeding sort of puffy?
anyway, looks like a sweet echinata, but prolly subechinata coz the rings don't seem to be concentric IMO ....but bowers are VERY similar. That central polyp right smack in the middle of yours, where the daughter polyps grow around, looks like bowerbanki to the letter. Veron described bowers as rare in the Indo-Pacific....so technically, Japan...lol
it's sweet though...would buy it if i saw it
i don't declare myself to be an expert, but i use expert advice (in the way of gurus like Veron) to base my opinions.
and if you're a believer in what Veron observed and documented in his book, you'd know the contents are very reliable, right?
he only documents a. maxima from the Sea of Oman (and beyond). However, he did lots of taxonomy work in Australia and Indo. He documented so many genera and species there, but not once did he document a. maxima from the indo-pacific. he found so many acanthastrea all over indo from Japan to Oz...but no maxima. If he says they arent in the indo-pacific, im gonna go with him on that.
so you're going to play the 'what if?' card so that's ok....i see people like you all the time, too
so now you say yours may be from the illegal trade a.k.a. "Japan"or that there's no way anybody can say 100% that maxima does not exist coz how are they going to know every coral that exists in the ocean and so on and so on....sorry if im wrong on both accounts
anyways...what you have has small sized polyps, not even close to maxima proportions (from Veron) how mature is yours? age? ...do you have a pic with the mantle at its fattest? like puffy 3am puffy when it's feeding sort of puffy?
anyway, looks like a sweet echinata, but prolly subechinata coz the rings don't seem to be concentric IMO ....but bowers are VERY similar. That central polyp right smack in the middle of yours, where the daughter polyps grow around, looks like bowerbanki to the letter. Veron described bowers as rare in the Indo-Pacific....so technically, Japan...lol
it's sweet though...would buy it if i saw it
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