Acceptable losses at LFS?

C

cinematek

New member
I'm new to the hobby and in the process of researching and figuring out how to build my first tank.

As I visit various lfs from Petcos to dedicated sw places I feel like I ALWAYS see some dead fish. My gut tells me that if I see dead fish I should buy somewhere else, but I have yet to see a shop without at least a few casualties.

Is there a rule of thumb for the acceptable number of dead fish at a given lfs? I imagine that it is unavoidable to lose a few, but I don't know enough yet to know when "a few" becomes "too many".

What do you think?
 
I wouldn't be worried about how many are dead, but why is the body still in there and why did it die? If it died from a disease, chances are that there are others that are infected or really bad tank husbandry from the store owner. But if it died because of the stress of shipment or it was just one of those fish that wouldn't eat, then it wouldn't be so bad. That's something that isn't very avoidable. But if fish are left in the tanks, then I would call bad husbandry on the store. Not only should dead bodies be taken out immediately because of visual appeal to the customers, but it can cause untold havoc on the Nitrogen Cycle in the tank which could cause more to die. I can understand a store being super busy and have something die on them, but if it looks like it's been there for a while or there isn't any major business, then I would call a lousy businessman.
 
I think you probably make a good point. Here's a couple of examples...

One dedicated LFS has probably 50 sw tanks or more. on one visit I think I saw 3 dead fish in their SW tanks and 3-4 dead fish in their FW tanks. But... they were very busy and very huge. It must take them a while to examine all the tanks for dead ones.

At a local Petco with about 6 SW tanks they had 6-8 dead fish. At least one per tank! While I was there a girl came around and scooped out all the dead ones. (One of them was a rather large lemon peel - strange to see such a large dead fish.)

But... none of the dead fish at either store had any visible disease or spots on their scales. They were just dead. Is this a product of fish stress?
 
IMO/E it's usually very difficult to figure out why any one particular fish died without knowing it's history. I think you can learn much more about the establishment by looking at the living fish. Are they healthy, active alert? Are they flashing (regardless of actual visible spots)? Are they beating each other up? Are they skinny?

I agree, some loss is inevitable, but if the body looks like it's been there a while, then the store lacks something.
 
Shut petco down.. I used to work at one. The "fish specialist" had no clue what she was doing and would not take advice for anything. She "didnt believe" in protien skimming or uv sterilization (which the system had but she didnt know how or want to use). When she did water changes she would add salt directly to the system instead of mixing separately. 75% of the fish died within 24 hours of being introduced. Damsels and clowns did ok but tangs and gobies had no chance. If they didnt eat flake or freeze dried krill then they didnt eat because she wouldnt feed them anything else. I used to throw frozen brine shrimp and the frozen krill in there whenever I got a chance. She also kept a level of copper in the system all the time but never tested the levels. If they hire the right person things could be much better but the Store manager and petco couldnt care less. There was absolutely no excuse for what was going on in that store. (Southington, CT) Screw petco.. DO NOT EVER BUY AQUARIUM SUPPLIES AT PETCO!
 
Any veiws on Petsmart?? I would never buy fish there but will buy filter carbon etc. from there due to it being cheaper.
 
Petsmart is just as incompetent but at least they have the decency to only carry salt water aquarium products and not leave the care of delicate sea animals to untrained employees. Their fresh water systems seem to be better than petcos. I dont usually see many dead/sick fish.
 
As dedicated fish enthusiasts, you should boycott all large chain stores. Not only do they out compete great local stores; they usually have little or no code of conduct when it comes to new fish. Regardless, we should always support our local fish stores as aquarists. Petcos and Petsmarts destroy local (knowledgable, and responsible) fish stores.
Do not buy any fish supplies from large chain pet stores!
 
I used to work at Petsmart and the filter system that they had was pretty amazing, it had massive UV, 2 50 gallon drums of carbon, it used DI for water changes and topoff, a 8 feet tall fluidized bed. They even let me put a CO2 system on the plant tank so the plants would grow instead of die (but they removed it when I quit). They actually treated there employee's pretty well (this was awhile ago).

Don't buy anything from large chain pet stores? I think that large online stores have done far more damage to small LFS's than Petsmart has.

My local petco has started selling live rock and coral, and it was very sad! They had a couple tanks of rotting LPS's and softies.....
 
Your gonna find dead fish in every LFS. For me while i was starting up my tank and going through the cycling phase i went around to all the fish stores in the San Francisco area and got to know all of them ( even the ones that didn't speak english... i listen carefully to what they say... and put 2 and 2 together ), trying to get a feeling for who the store owners where and how the stock fish ect... then i would visit the shops almost everyday to look at the fish and corals, again talk to the fish owners to asking the same questions over and over again to see if they actaully practice watch they preach.

I can probably name 2 good stores in San Francisco, another 2 good hearted stores but questionable stocking habits and several bad or questionable store.. and ONE definatly BAD BAD store .. unfortunatly would also be one of the biggest selections of fish and supplies ....even their supplies are shaddy in SF.


but to me that is only half the battle. Even after i get a fish i feel is good. I still, to the best of my ability acclimate it correctly. I feel if you not sure about fish your buying you should acclimate the fish in a QT tank. check its health and if you think its dying go back to the store you bought it and ask for another or your money back..move on to another LFS. Most will accomidate you to some degree.
 
yes, I work at a lfs and yall are all right the big guys are killing us. We have to mark down the markups jsut to be competative, and yet people still complain about it, There is just notihng we can do we cant buy in as big of bulk as they can so we suffer.Back to the main topic of the thred when we get fish they dont all travial well and some jsut dont ajust to the depresserastion going form deep ocean to shallow fish tank. so yes we do louse a lot of fish and it is depresing yet we try all we can. we feed live brine to the picky eaters, treat the systems and indiviguly. yet u can save them all. and yes expesoly on weekends the shop gets buisy and we dont get all the floters but if you ask we will gladly tell u how that fish has been doing in the shop and how long(even if it is ****y i would rathere it die on us then on you). so i gess it depens on the shop.
thanks, mike

P.S. i know i type bad.
 
budjr8000 - it sounds like you take a good deal of pride in your fish store - good to know there's people like you out there.

Here's a question you might be in a good position to answer - Every now and then I see a fish in a lfs that looks like it's flopping back and forth a bit- like it's off balance or something. What is that a sign of? Is it a sick fish, or a dying fish, or is it just a new fish to the store that is adjusting? Or are there some fish that flop around?
 
well there are many factors i wouls say it is either a parisite or some thing liek the but it jsut could very well be that it is not yet adjusted to the system. i would first ask how long it has been at the store then if there are any parisites in the system that they are aware of. that depens on the type of fish and others factor so i can;t realy say sorry about that but not a good thing ether way if u see a fish like that and u jsut can live wiht out it quarintin it first or see if they will hold it for a few days for u.
 
There will be losses. However we (lfs owners) should be able to find out why a fish is dying or has died. Most of the time it is stress. I try to order from suppliers that are mac certified. Seeing dead fish is never good but, some fish will die. Some fish that reefers love looking at and keep just do not ship well.

As for boycotting a store, I say buy wherever you want. It is a country of the free. However, think before you buy, check your options. It is frustrating when someone buys fish or supplies from a box store or worse online and comes in with questions on how to heal the animals or how to use the equipment. I am happy to help most of the time because I want people to be successfull. But I know that the "old school" owners will not be very happy.

Please Support Your Local LFS.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8368904#post8368904 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fewells
There will be losses. However we (lfs owners) should be able to find out why a fish is dying or has died. Most of the time it is stress. I try to order from suppliers that are mac certified. Seeing dead fish is never good but, some fish will die. Some fish that reefers love looking at and keep just do not ship well.

As for boycotting a store, I say buy wherever you want. It is a country of the free. However, think before you buy, check your options. It is frustrating when someone buys fish or supplies from a box store or worse online and comes in with questions on how to heal the animals or how to use the equipment. I am happy to help most of the time because I want people to be successfull. But I know that the "old school" owners will not be very happy.

Please Support Your Local LFS.
Click to expand...

2nd that
 
I spent a couple weekends going to every LFS in town. I settled on one store which was just a single guy who stated his store on a showstring. Why? Because I liked him, liked the way he treated me and liked the way he kept his fish.

He travels every thursday to get new fish. I always visit on Friday. Here's what I notice. Fish die. Which ones? Mostly ones he got Thursday. If they survive more than a day they they are good for weeks. Not many die but some always will. Its part of the way things work. Fish make many transits.

What is boils down to is - you gotta find someone you trust. Even then, research and go with your instinct.
 
You sound like a very smart person that understands the process. Thanks for supporting the little guy.
 
I'd have to agree with Daven. From what I've seen so far, it seems like the "little guy" fish shops tend to be the better ones. There is a shop near my place that is the outcropping of one aquarist's passion for the hobby, and it is the cleanest, best stocked, healthiest looking store in town.

The bigger chain stores don't even closely compare.
 
Since relocating to the Muncie I have come to realize that a well stocked, well kept and personable Fish store is something that is a real desire for me. I originally in lived in Lafayette, home to a local store called Aquarium World. They had the best display tanks I have ever seen and there stock was always clean, dead fish were removed immediately (they had a staff of at least 5 or more at all times) and live stock was always top notch. They always offered great advice and offered different ways to acheive the same end result. Perhaps the one thing that made me really enjoy walking in through the front doors, was that they could remember what tank you had and some of the livestock you had purchased. Plus the owner usually there and he too was a walking book of knowledge. I too was tempted to order online a few times, but after looking at shipping costs, the need to be home when the package comes, and the uncertainty of the livestock arriving alive, I realized that the price was actually a little more to order online, and at least if i purchased it at the lfs I could bring it back in to see what happend. I would often spend my lunch breaks in the store just looking at the fish and watching the tanks.

So now that I am two hours away, where will I go?? After checking out some of the local shops, and looking at my options in Indianapolis, it looks like i will making the 4 hour round trip drive back to Lafayette to purhcase my livestock. Jon
 
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