Achilles Tang Question - What Makes It So Vulnerable To Ich

[nuxx]

I was just thinking about this earlier...

What in your opinion makes an Achilles such an ich magnet?

I mean we all know if ich is in a tank... all the fish will be a host for the disease.

Should Achilles really just be said to display signs of ich easier than other fish? Instead of just being labeled a fish that catches it easier than other fish.

Is it that their black coloration shows signs easier?
Is it their high strung nature that makes them easier stressed and show signs quicker?

As far as I know there is no physical attribute that makes an Achilles a better host than other similar species...

What does everyone think?

 

[Squidmotron]

Tangs in general seem to be most susceptible. Especially acanthurus variety.

 

[andrewkw]

My Achilles got ich from a coral despite never having it in my care. I'm sure it was a coral because no fish or invert had recently been added. I had to tear my entire reef down to trap him to treat him. Because I have so many fish I left the majority in the mess of a tank and no one else has shown even a single spot. With that being the case I am treating him with copper and the rest will go through tank transfers and then wait out the fallow period in isolation.

I have no idea why they are so sensitive I just accept it. I always knew this could happen one day and from now on everything wet will spend 72 days in a fish less environment.

 

[DasCamel]

Not an expert, I assume it's got to do with the skin and the thickness of its mucous or protective layer. Tangs in general are all highly susceptible, while a Mandarin is supposedly more resistant.

 

[ncaldwell]

I was thinking it's in there skin too, I'm not sure I've never seen clowns get it

 

[CHorse_Fanatic]

My friend who has snorkeled all over the world says that whenever he snorkels in Hawaii, the only place he ever sees Achilles tangs are in the reef crest, high wave areas of a reef. In other words, Achilles in the wild are used to extremely high oxygen levels. I think that this is one reason why Achilles, in general, do not do well in captivity and are prone to ick, which is most often symptomatic of stress. Yes, ick is a parasite, but fish "break out" with ick most often when under stress, such as being bullied by another fish, sudden temperature change, or not enough oxygen compared to what they're used to in the wild.

Anthony

 

[ThRoewer]

I don't think oxygen has much do with this but rather the high flow and being constantly on the move.

Fish develop defense systems against things likely to harm them. It is a matter of evolution and natural selection.

For Cryptocaryon to be truly harmful to a fish, this fish needs to stay in a rather small territory, so that if infected once, the parasite has a chance to hit the same fish with the next wave. Therefore fish that live and especially sleep always in the same burrows or caves are more likely to encounter several waves of Crypticaryon. Also fish that live in rather stagnating waters of atolls or lagoons are more likely to encounter these parasites more often and possibly in higher numbers.
I would think these fish have to be more resistant against this type of parasite than fish that are always either in high flow or constantly on the move and sleep wherever nightfall finds them. These fish may pick up on or two parasites but by the time these are releasing the next wave hatches it gets either washed away fast or the fish are already somewhere else. Therefore they have no need to develop a specific resistance against this parasite.

Tangs fall largely into the latter category. Due to their way of life Cryptocaryon is never a problem for them. That is, until they got confined into a tiny puddle of water where the parasites have it easy to prey on them.

 

[Dmorty217]

With how poorly they ship and typically don't eat at the wholesaler I think their immune systems are compromised which makes them more susceptible to ich

 

[nuxx]

Good thoughts about the water movement washing parasites away...

When we were in Hawaii of all the times we saw Achilles they were in extremely high flowing areas. Was very hard to even stay stable to film them.

Only really saw them once while scuba diving when they were in a calm area.





This was actually in the area we saw the most Achilles...

Tossed me around like a ragdoll...

 

[snorvich]

I don't think oxygen has much do with this but rather the high flow and being constantly on the move.

Fish develop defense systems against things likely to harm them. It is a matter of evolution and natural selection.

For Cryptocaryon to be truly harmful to a fish, this fish needs to stay in a rather small territory, so that if infected once, the parasite has a chance to hit the same fish with the next wave. Therefore fish that live and especially sleep always in the same burrows or caves are more likely to encounter several waves of Crypticaryon. Also fish that live in rather stagnating waters of atolls or lagoons are more likely to encounter these parasites more often and possibly in higher numbers.
I would think these fish have to be more resistant against this type of parasite than fish that are always either in high flow or constantly on the move and sleep wherever nightfall finds them. These fish may pick up on or two parasites but by the time these are releasing the next wave hatches it gets either washed away fast or the fish are already somewhere else. Therefore they have no need to develop a specific resistance against this parasite.

Tangs fall largely into the latter category. Due to their way of life Cryptocaryon is never a problem for them. That is, until they got confined into a tiny puddle of water where the parasites have it easy to prey on them.

I agree. Cryptocaryon irritans is a parasite of confinement, and can only be fatal due to the exponential increase in a confined environment. Mandarins are resistant but not immune.

 

[this is me]

How does the achilles compare to powder blue/brown for ich? Or the Acanthurus are all the same susceptibility to ich.

 

[snorvich]

In a confined environment, both are, in my opinion, equally susceptible.

 

[RxMike]

Achilles Tang

Achilles Tang

I have tried several over the years. Even after 2 months of QT with copper. As soon as I introduced Achilles in tank sure enough next day it has ICH. I had to remove the fish quickly. No other fish in my reef show signs of ICH. But ICH is there. The Achilles is an ICH magnet. It is a shame, I think they are beautiful fish. I simply cannot keep them.


I agree I think it is the stress of confinement along with possible aggression from other inhabitants. I have a 300 gallon reef and it does not help.

 

[CoralsAddiction]

Good thoughts about the water movement washing parasites away...

When we were in Hawaii of all the times we saw Achilles they were in extremely high flowing areas. Was very hard to even stay stable to film them.

Only really saw them once while scuba diving when they were in a calm area.





This was actually in the area we saw the most Achilles...

Tossed me around like a ragdoll...

Where was this? I was gonna guess Oahu but too many yellow tangs in the video to be that Island...although I saw some at Turtle Bay resort in June. Please share the location. Thanks.

 

[Deinonych]

Looks like Maui to me (video titles).

 

[nuxx]

Where was this? I was gonna guess Oahu but too many yellow tangs in the video to be that Island...although I saw some at Turtle Bay resort in June. Please share the location. Thanks.

Video 1:
Molokini Crater off of Maui

Video 2 and 3:
Hulopoe Bay Lanai

 

[ThRoewer]

I have tried several over the years. Even after 2 months of QT with copper. As soon as I introduced Achilles in tank sure enough next day it has ICH. I had to remove the fish quickly. No other fish in my reef show signs of ICH. But ICH is there. The Achilles is an ICH magnet. It is a shame, I think they are beautiful fish. I simply cannot keep them.


I agree I think it is the stress of confinement along with possible aggression from other inhabitants. I have a 300 gallon reef and it does not help.

I suspect your tank has an occult Cryptocaryon infection going. Otherwise I would find it strange that a cleaned up fish shows symptoms after being put in there.

My last tang was a powder brown (back in the late 80s). It always had a low level infection going. I gave it to a friend with a 1500 liter tank where it did OK.

 

[RxMike]

I have 30 fish in tank not one has a sign of ich. I have seen that ich is always present. Even if you pull all your fish out and attempt to sterilize the tank by going fish less for months

My fish have no spots. They are super healthy fat and eat like pigs. Every time I Put a Achilles or powder blue in they have developed While the other fish have no signs. It is bizarre I agree. I pulled the fish out as soon as they developed signs. The ich never spread to another fish . I can't explain it.
For this reason I stay clear off Achilles or powders.

 

[nuxx]

Hey Mike.

Just not sure how Ich could just show up on the Achilles and Powders.

It has to be present in the tank or with the new fish to pop up.

 

[JaySchulz]

Hey Mike.

Just not sure how Ich could just show up on the Achilles and Powders.

It has to be present in the tank or with the new fish to pop up.

^ Agreed. Just because the other fix don't show signs does not mean it is not in the tank. In my last tank only 2 fish ever showed signs of ich. All others never showed a spot. It didn't mean that they were not infected, but they weren't stressed.