Achilles Tangs

[RxMike]

Can anyone comment on why these fish are so delicate. I went through two juvenilles both succumbed to ICH in my QT. The last one developed ICH 4 weeks into the QT process. It developed a horrible case and by the time I started treatment it was to late.

I decided to try a larger Achilles. I purchased a 5.5 inch specimen. the fish arrived in beutiful condition. i placed it in my qt tank. The QT tank is bare bottom and has excellent filtration and flow. The Achilles was the only fish in the QT tank. On the third day of observation I turned the lights on and noticed that the fish was again covered in ich. It looked super healthy that is other than the ICh.

I decided to give it a fresh water dip. The fish was placed in RO/DI water, and I made sure to use a airstone, match the temperature and Ph of the holding tank the fish resides in. I kept the fish in the bath for ten minutes. It showed no signs of stress. I returned fish to the tank and observed. I noticed that the cysts fell off the fish. The next morning I was able to get my hands on some Quick Cure. I did not want to go the copper route as in my experience the last two achilles did not do well with copper. I am dosing Quick cure as 1 drop per gallon twice daily dosed every other day. I am doing frequent 10% water changes. Water change is done on the day I am not treating with Quick Cure. I am also observing the fish and if it looks strong enough I am using a fresh water dip on off medication days.

the fish seems to be swimming happily, it is not however, eating well. It has developed what seems to be a secondary bacterial or viral infection. It has what looks like a viral blister on its mouth. Its fins also look like they are damaged.

Is this common in the ICh battle. Is it possible that I am not dealing with a parasiste infection? ( I assume yes) I am hesitant to mix medications with such a delicate fish. I am on the third day of Quick Cure treatment. I hope this works out. I tried feeding live black worms to stimulate appetitie along with some red nori. It is not interested in food but continues to show signs of strength. ( it swims the tank, and does not appear to be weak, does not lay on its side, and it is not showing signs of laboured breathing)

I realize nutrition is very important. Wish It would start to eat.
Any suggestions on what I can try?

 

[Allmost]

double check your QT process, seems like you are putting the fish through hell at their arrival, which is the main cause of the loss.

QT in theory is good, but putting the poor fish in a dirty tank with all sorts of bacteria and .. is just not right ... same with doing treatments that fast ... fish needs to adopt to captive life first, start eating, be in a good environment, then you can start to treat it for different things ....

bit with regads to anchilles, once you get it used to captive life, it will be good after that.

 

[auem]

if you go through it,you will find same experience shared by many people.....many answers..

read below...though one of the gist is as long as this fish is eating good,ich may come and go periodically;but the fish can survive....flow need to be very very strong...
also you will find your QT regarding this fish is not right.....

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1492655

 

[MrTuskfish]

You're finding out why Achilles are so delicate, they are very difficult to acclimate. I'd read Snorvich's tank-transfer sticky in the disease forum and use that method with the ich.

. Did you sterilize the QT, and everything in it, after you lost the the last tang? IMO, Achilles handle copper very well. Quick Cure is a formalin med, often used for brooklynella. I would never use it for ich. What do you expect the FW dips to do? They do nothing for ich, but have their uses. What are you using to control ammonia in the QT?

 

[Holsteiner]

I think half the battle is the instant you receive him...getting one that is fat and starts eating soon after already improves your odds dramatically! Ours came in at about 4.5" and was fat...it took him about 2-3 days before he started munching on nori and has been a pig ever since. I did go through about a week or two where he showed signs of ich, but thankfully never got fully infested and was able to get over it. I believe with constant feeding and selcon he was able to fight it off. I will never, ever do this again without doing a QT first.

 

[scuzy]

I only have success with cuppramine as a ich cure during qt process. I would keep trying to feed him long as there is no one there to stress him should be ok.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I think half the battle is the instant you receive him...getting one that is fat and starts eating soon after already improves your odds dramatically! Ours came in at about 4.5" and was fat...it took him about 2-3 days before he started munching on nori and has been a pig ever since. I did go through about a week or two where he showed signs of ich, but thankfully never got fully infested and was able to get over it. I believe with constant feeding and selcon he was able to fight it off. I will never, ever do this again without doing a QT first.

A fish can't completely "fight off" ich. ich may disappear; but will always make a comeback.

 

[RxMike]

Achilles

Achilles

Just to clarify

The Achilles is in a 55 gallon bare bottom tank, with two hang on back filters, and two power heads providing decent flow in the tank. I have a MP40 laying around I think I might keep it on low to give some better flow.

In terms of my QT process. I do not treat until I see disease. The Achilles was doing fine then broke out with ICH out of no where. A LFS recommended doing a fresh water dip to help relieve ICH. They claim the fresh water dip kills the ICH cysts. Is this not the case? The local fish store claims that a wholesaler in the area who brings a lot of these fish in from hawaii uses quick cure( formalin and malachite green) and doses it 3 drops per gallon every other day for three weeks.

How bad would it be to do a water change and try a different medication like copper in a day or so? Or should I continue the course with Quick Cure?

 

[Allmost]

review the sticky on QT tanks.

what do you use to get rid of ammonia ? your filters do not work when you medicate tank,

do you wash the tank and all equipments with bleach ?

 

[RxMike]

Achilles

Achilles

Sorry I forgot to answer the question about ammonia. I am doing frequent water changes 10% every other day to assure good water quality. I am testing ammonia. My levels are low. I am not using Prime or anything like that as I am not sure if this could bring about drug interactions. Ammonia does not appear to be an issue at present.

 

[Allmost]

how do you know ammonia and other bacteria are not the Issue ?

those are important.

no point in QT if its not sterile you know ?

 

[auem]

does hang on the back filter contains any carbon media?...i hope not...

you can try hypo depending on how much ich has spread...but you have already started medication....plus a mouth infection is pretty bad news...you better stick to the course...

use brine and mysis too for food...and green noorie(instead of red)....
and stop using FW deep....

 

[ClownNut]

i QT most of the fish goes into my display, achilles and anthias are on my no QT list.
just freshwater dips and display tank, achilles will get ich if you move it from QT to display. all you doing QT it in the smaller tank is just stress it out even more. my achilles will still get couple spot here and there,(usually after i use MJ blow the rock.) but it will clear up after a day or two.

 

[MrTuskfish]

ClownNut: you seem have ich in your tank, I'm sure this will blow up on you sooner or later, it always does. Any immunity a fish has to ich is temporary and limited to certain strains. I cannot imagine not quarantining any fish, especially an Achilles. FW dips do nothing for ich. The feeding phase of the parasite is too deep in the fish and the cysts are not even on the fish. .

RxMike: Please don't take this as a put-down it isn't. It comes with the hobby. But, IMO, if you do not completely understand the ich life-cycle; you are not ready to keep an Achilles tang. There is a reason they are usually labeled "expert only" fish.

As I said earlier I'd read (at least the initial post) the ich stickies by Snorvich in the disease section of the forum and re-post your problem there. Many wholesalers will use low doses of meds that mask symptoms of parasites; but do not cure it. Quick Cure is one of those meds. This med is based on formalin (formaldehyde) and (IMO) cannot be used long enough to eliminate ich. Ich must be eliminated, not just temporary treated. IME & IMO; fish must be treated for four weeks to eliminate ich. Is there any chance you have introduced ich into your DT with previous fish?

IMO & IME; tank-transfer would be the best treatment. Cupramine copper, or one of the quinine drugs (Chloroquine) is getting a lot of attention. Its hard to find and I don't think you have time.

 

[Mrscribbled]

Do not mix copper with any other meds, especially formalin. Use carbon between meds. I have aclimated several Achilles over the years successfully. They do handle copper well, but not hypo. The current the live intheir natural environment, is virtually immpossible to replicate in a home aquarium. I'd never qt one in less than a 75 gallon tank (for a small specimen) 125 gallons for a large.

 

[MrTuskfish]

i QT most of the fish goes into my display, achilles and anthias are on my no QT list.
just freshwater dips and display tank, achilles will get ich if you move it from QT to display. all you doing QT it in the smaller tank is just stress it out even more. my achilles will still get couple spot here and there,(usually after i use MJ blow the rock.) but it will clear up after a day or two.

It sounds like the rock cleaning is just blowing of small bits of whatever that are sticking to the fish. Lots of stuff can be mistaken for ich. It makes no sense that ich would disappear/disappear in this manner.

 

[ClownNut]

ClownNut: you seem have ich in your tank, I'm sure this will blow up on you sooner or later, it always does. Any immunity a fish has to ich is temporary and limited to certain strains. I cannot imagine not quarantining any fish, especially an Achilles. FW dips do nothing for ich. The feeding phase of the parasite is too deep in the fish and the cysts are not even on the fish. .

i dont care ich,i FW dip to check for flake/worm and please point out who dont have ich in their tank.

 

[ClownNut]

It sounds like the rock cleaning is just blowing of small bits of whatever that are sticking to the fish. Lots of stuff can be mistaken for ich. It makes no sense that ich would disappear/disappear in this manner.

i think it's more freaking it out more than anything. i think i know what's ich what's not.

 

[Mrscribbled]

i dont care ich,i FW dip to check for flake/worm and please point out who dont have ich in their tank.

I don't have ich in any of my tanks. They used to, and ive dealt with it numerous of times with my own fish and helping others. Ich is so easy to prevent but can be a pain to cure an established system, but not impossible.

 

[sushi4u]

Today i just found my achilles to be breathing very labored and eventually passed away later today.

I found out the hard way that these fish are very sensitive
Achilles was eating like a champ last night both nori and prepared.
Had him in qt for 9 days with no issues.
No signs of ich of that sort. Fish was spotless.

This morning found him dead.

I cant believe how fast it passed away. I am shocked really.