ACII with IceCap 250W Halide Temp problem

[JustReefIt]

Ok, I'm at my wits end....it's either ditch the ACII and go back to my Ranco dual stage temperature controller or buy PFO's to replace the IceCaps..

I've searched RC relentlessly but I am unable to find any solutions-so I'll ask my question directly.

I have an ACII running with X-10 controls with no problems with the X-10 coming on and off when they're supposed to and I do like the insurance my ACII provides. But....

My problem is when my IceCap 250 MHs (X3) (new electronic style with DE Pendents) come on I get a 2-3 degree temp decrease. It slowly (within 5-10 minutes) comes back up to about a 1 degree decrease and remains about a degree under the actual (prior to IC's coming on) temperature. When the lights go back off it spikes back up a degree (approx) - which turns my chiller on and then it runs and drops the temp actually 2 degrees within a short time span. I have recently lost two table corals, 2.5 years old plus , and I attribute at lease some of the issues to these 3-4 degree temp swings.

I've worked with Gordon Blank (one of your beta testers) here in Phoenix and we've tried a number of things - Moving ACII far as possible from ICs - plugging them in to different phases in the house - running the torroids (sp?) (magnetic filters) on the temp probe line - fiddling with the programming - verifying correct grounding procedures.

I need to know if there are any known fixes for these issues before I ditch either product as I believe both are good quality and I've been happy with the performance otherwise.

Would a DC unit correct this problem or am I still going to get noise in my temp probe line? Can I insulate the temp probe in some manner to shield it from the noise?
Can the IC's be shielded somehow?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Brian

 

[Carlos]

Brian,

If you search, it is known that IceCap MH ballasts and X10 controllers do not mix well. I used to do the same and I had a list of problems from not turning on at all to turning on but not off.

The MH electronic ballasts produce too much noise that creates real problems with the X10 controllers.

A way most people fix it is by switching to DC units. Those units have no problems with noise and will ensure that things work correctly.

HTH,

Carlos

 

[Infinitereef]

Unfortunately, I am having similar experience over the past 2 days using a DC8. I have to place my Tel cable that connect to DC8 s far as possible from any power source to get some stability. Even that, my temp is swinging and some time the DC8 will just shutdown.

See my thread with AC Jr.

 

[JustReefIt]

Thanks for the replies....I'm aware of the many problems with IC's and X-10's.

Unfortunately the temperature swing is not a function of the X-10's vs. IceCaps....it's the IceCaps vs. the temp probe. The IC's can be taken off of X-10's completely and the issue is the same when the ICs fire up and power down.

If there is no work around I will be forced to sell the IC's and trade them out for other ballasts.

This is very fustrating as I have a lot of money invested in a piece of equipment that is going to end up being an expensive pH monitor.....

Hopefully Curt will chime in with some advice.

If anyone knows of other threads addressing this problem, (temp swing, not necessarily X-10, as they are working just fine) please let me know.

Thanks again..

 

[sidewinder770]

I don't have much advise to offer but I am interested in this issue. I'm currently running the same setup that you are- 4 250w MH pendants with IC ballasts using Phoenix 14k bulbs. I have not noticed any issues yet like you are describing- I did notice problems when the ballasts or light cords were too close to the probe wires but in my case it only affected PH & ORP- that was on our old tank and have not encountered any since moving the controller and all equipment (except the lights) to the garage about 60 ft from the display tank. It would be a bummer to have to replace any of that equipment as it is all top of the line. Does it happen with all 3 ballasts or just 1? Does the temp swing more as more ballasts fire up? Wish I had an idea for you but I will watch this thread and keep an eye out for similar issues.

 

[JustReefIt]

Sidewinder-
It does happen with all three ballasts...and yes it does ramp up more as each ballast fire up....I have noticed that the further away from the icecaps the temp probe is the less interference. I am limited however to the distance I can seperate the two.

Interestingly enough, last night I was searching some threads and saw that someone suggested using aluminum foil to wrap the ballasts.....what did I have to lose? So I wrapped the ballasts as well as I could and the temp probe line to the AC.....believe it or not the interference dropped to almost zero, I only saw it drop .1, not the 2-3 degrees....so maybe a step in the right direction.

When I get home tonight I'm going to do some further testing and see if in fact it does "filter" the noise, if so I'll need to construct something more permanant. Right now my stand looks like a fridge full of thanksgiving leftovers...

on a side note - Sidewinder - I've followed some of the thread on your setup - very impressive, probably the best in the state, very well planned. You don't see that kind of forethought very often.

If you're looking for some nice sps frags let me know....I might have a few.....:smokin: I'm always up for a good trade - I've got a superman I need to swap out.

Thanks guys

 

[sidewinder770]

You know what, I never thought about that- I actually have enclosures for my IC ballasts- these. That is very interesting to know about the aluminum foil- maybe the ballast boxes do the same kind of thing? The boxes are useful though- it's very nice to have a power switch and pre-made plugs and not have wires all over the place.

Thanks for the compliments on our system- it's been a very interesting and fun project and so far so good but only time will tell. You are also more than welcome to come check it out if you are ever on this side of town- I know Erin has mentioned you and your tank a few times and we've been wanting to come see it. We don't have a lot of large SPS yet as we are mainly starting from frags but would be happy to swap with anything we do have.

I was looking at your gallery and noticed a wrasse you have (or I think it was a wrasse) what kind is it? I noticed the leopard wrasse but what is the other one?

 

[clp]

I'd make sure that hoods, and ballasts are properly grounded as this will reduce the amount of radiate EMI. Also as mentioned previous physical separation of the AC2 temp cord from any of the ballast cords will greatly reduce the amount of interference. If non of the above helps, please contact us at support@neptunesys.com, and we can make a modification to the temperature circuit in the AC2 to reduce the high frequency EMI interaction.

Curt

 

[JustReefIt]

Thanks Curt for the offer to help, I might take you up on it if the aluminum doesn't pan out.....I have made sure that everything is grounded, multiple times..

The wrasse is a Cirrhilabrus lineatus - it "was" one of my favorites. But toward the end became extremely skiddish and very jumpy - everytime I walked by the tank he would jump into the canopy and hit so hard I thought he'd surely be dead. I'm not sure exactly how he died (after about 2 years) but my guess is he actually probably did injur himself by jumping and colliding with the pendents, pcs,etc.....and succumbed to a secondary infection from his injuries.....pretty sad day..

FWIW Pet's Inc. (of all places) had a lineatus available last weekend, I think they wanted $150 -not too bad. It was in pretty good shape too.

You're also welcome to stop by when you get out on this side.....I don't think I've seen Erin for at least a couple of years.....good to see her back in the hobby.

thanks for all the help guys

 

[73ChargerFan]

Following along... I'm setting up the same ballasts with the AC3 Pro I'm purchasing.

If the aluminum foil works, then the Icecaps may be inducing a current in the wire from the AC to the probe, like a radio antenae.

 

[JustReefIt]

ChargerFan,
Unfortunately the tin foil did not pan out......wishful thinking on my part.
After hearing back from Curt the AC3 Pro is actually equipped with some special circuitry to help prevent noise from interfering with normal operation, unlike the ACII that I have.
However to make sure my grounding was correct I got out my multimeter and traced the grounds. What I couldn't believe is that even though the IC's were wired correctly, the grounding screw did not provide a true ground on 2 of the three ballasts (all wired the same.)
My advice is to never trust the ground screw on the ballast....wire the ground from the pendent directly to the power cord ground.
Although this did help some I still get some "minor" interference, it drops about .9-.3 degrees with the ICs on.
Curt has been really good about helping out and we're working on a fix right now which I'm confident will solve the problem.
Good luck with your setup, this problem seems like the exception, not the rule, all of my friends have identical setups with no problems....
Just lucky I guess

 

[clkwrk]

I get the same temp increase . I have been able to move wires around and was able to get my temp increase down to 1/2 a degree . My main interference is from my IC vho ballast the 3 ic metal halides ballast affect my temp minimal.

 

[Psionicdragon]

Could you guys explain the process of grounding

I don't have the IC ballast, I use coralvue v.06 250 watt ballast and its screwing up my temp reading. My temp swung 4 degrees above normal.

 

[Psionicdragon]

JustReefIt,

did you eventually fixxed it?