Acrylic fabrication questions? I can help!

I have some updated information.

First - Here is the wire that works for me. It's cheap ($2.85 at home depot). It includes a cutter with the package.
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Here are pictures of the new joint:
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Quality Control :fish2::
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lol.....

I fixed the joint by carefully using a trim bit to remove the old adhesive/joint. I then prepared the panel and used the pin method. Yes there are one or two very tiny bubbles.... I can live with that. Not sure about you, but I don't spend alot of time looking at the edges of my aquariums. :spin3:

I am using a pair of Harbor Freight corner clamps... they are plastic, have rubber pads and were about $9 ea. They help me be sure to get a 90 degree joint. The lower side is clamped firmly, the upper side is barely touching. If you tighten the high side your panel will not drop into place when you pull the pins.

Keep in mind that I have a very small overhang which will be trimmed later on using a laminate bit in the router. My panel turned out to be slightly more than 96".
 
Here is a tool I find to be useful....
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It is a frosting spatula. I used to be a screenprinter, so I have 20 or so of these. I'm using them in the tank project as shims. I like them because they are stainless steel and wood, neither of which will bond to acrylic if cement gets on it.

They are thin, strong, and very smooth.

Basically I slide it under the edge I need to shim and push it in until I'm happy with the support. As the wooden handle is about 3/4" thick it provides about half that much shim potential

As seen in use.
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My problem yesterday was 100% the wire thickness..... .030 is too much. .01x is about right.... This product is cheap and does the trick well... so cheap the "pins" are disposable. Use them once, throw them away.
You get 100 feet for $2.86+tax I use a pair of needlenose pliers to extract them. Be careful not to yank too hard as they can break... at which point you have to carefully extract the wire. I found this out the hard way. :smokin:
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I'm supporting the middle of my tank with roller stands. I have them set at a 90 degree angle to the potential motion I am most concerned with. These stands are about $19/ea at Home Depot.
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I have the tank on some 2x4's that are 10' long. The primary goal here is to keep the tank off of the concrete. I happen to have a 4x8 carpeted dolly, but it's very difficult to balance the tank on top of the dolly.....

Lastly, a practice I recommend is marking your panels for orientation. You will see UP arrows on my panels in the pictures. This helps remember where the top is and I can glance and find it at any time during assembly.

In an ideal world, all my panels would be perfect. In my reality there are very minor differences between the sides and front/back. I am focused on aligning the bottom joints to flush and I'll deal with the discrepancies at the top of the tank.

This tank is probably at the limit of what I can handle by myself for fabrication and assembly. A helper would be really nice.... and will be a necessity for flipping the tank and moving it inside.

I happen to be lucky enough to have my priorities in life right.... 1500s/f garage, 1250 s/f house, 1000s/f utility area / fish room. Seriously though, having plenty of well lit, area to work does make it easier.....


I would really like to see a moderated "best practices" thread for DIY acrylic. I think there are a number of us undertaking this type of project and if it was moderated it would limit the amount of content...... Frankly, a Acrylic sub-category is probably warranted based on the size of the threads on acrylic tanks.
 
It looks like the horizontal panel is hanging over the edge of the table? I don't know if this is an issue, but in all the pics I've seen posted, this is not done. I understood that you needed to have the horizontal panel perfectly flat and supported, then you can insert shims to keep the joint even (unless you have a perfectly flat table). I guess as long as you don't end up with the fillet pulling air into the joint you might be OK, but if your fillet dries out, I would think that would weaken your joint.

This is what my joints I set the other day look like (3/8" Plex-G)

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This one ended up with a few bubbles, but that was caused by me.

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I shot one into the joint (bonehead) and in an effort to remove it (double bonehead) I created more and almost hosed up the whole joint. Luckily I had added 5% AA to the mix and it gave me the extra working time I needed, and the extra soak time cleared up the joint perfectly.
 
I would really like to see a moderated "best practices" thread for DIY acrylic. I think there are a number of us undertaking this type of project and if it was moderated it would limit the amount of content...... Frankly, a Acrylic sub-category is probably warranted based on the size of the threads on acrylic tanks.

Great post, nice tank.

It took me about 2 weeks working on and off to go through this entire thread, but I wanted to know everything I could to minimize my learning curve. The long-time fabricators (except for James mainly) don't post much online because of trade secrets. And James won't post some of his methods for the larger builds either - someone's gotta be the best!

But you're right, there are a handful of basic things/questions that, like in any good, long thread, get repeated over and over, so most just skip to the end and ask the question again.

Also with a long thread there's stuff that gets mentioned and can get easily missed. The Chemcast issue is one, if you read early on in this thread you'll see at first it was OK to use, then at some point it was advised strictly against, and has been from that point on.

Same with Acrylite GP, that used to be made in the USA (50x100 size sheet is US made) but now it's made in China (48x96 sheet) and James recently posted (sometime in the last 6 months) that he won't use it anymore. So I hope that doesn't cause you an issue. Might want to have James chime in. I don't know for sure why he won't use Acrylite GP anymore.
 
Just a clarification - Look at posts 2000 through about 2013 or search this thread for "acrylite".

here's a part of #2005

All Acrylite GP under 1" is now manufactured in China and heavy gauge materials (1" and above) are now made in Germany. Since I don't use any GP material for tanks, I really don't know if the material is good or not. I just really don't know. But, being made in Germany is a good sign, unless of course you are me and the material will not qualify under NAFTA for duty-free shipping to Canada where I do a good bit of work, so it's now out as material I will use :(
 
Just a clarification - Look at posts 2000 through about 2013 or search this thread for "acrylite".

here's a part of #2005

I'm comfortable with it. 1/2" would have been okay on 22.5" water depth (where I suspect the actual depth will be).... but I up-sized it to 3/4".

Plastic is a chemical product and the primary issues are ingredient quality, consistency, and process expertise.

I'm comfortable that Plex-G and Acrylite GP are both quality cast products that will produce an acceptable aquarium for my use.

After all, the compare to is glass. I would have destroyed this at least twice by now if it were glass...... :)
 
It looks like the horizontal panel is hanging over the edge of the table? I don't know if this is an issue, but in all the pics I've seen posted, this is not done. I understood that you needed to have the horizontal panel perfectly flat and supported, then you can insert shims to keep the joint even (unless you have a perfectly flat table). I guess as long as you don't end up with the fillet pulling air into the joint you might be OK, but if your fillet dries out, I would think that would weaken your joint.

Yes, that is correct. I decided that was the best option for me.

1. I'm working solo. I have friends, but they flee when I say aquarium. :)
2. I wanted to use special clamps to get a 90 degree joint.
3. There is a thin piece of T6061 aluminum, probably .0625 under the center acting as a shim.
4. It's sitting on indoor/outdoor carpet. The dolly is actually for my truck camper... which weighs 3,000 pounds. It happens to make a fantastic dolly for fish tanks too.

I think at the end of the day the tank is slightly overbuilt and yes, I could obsess about joint clarity... but really, who spends very much time looking at the joints of their aquarium?
 
On another topic, what is the best practice for making the openings in the top?

I'm currently planning to rough cut the top sheet, glue it in place, trim the edges, and then fabricate the needed openings in the top of it. Probably using a router and a jig......

I just wanted to see if anyone had ideas on a better way to do it.
 
You can search a bit through this thread and find answers, or other threads too. Generally I think it's recommended that you do the cutouts first. This is for a couple reasons, off the top of my head #1 is that you bond the top on first, and then when you flip it over to do the bottom, the tank can breath, and #2 is that when you flip is over to bond the bottom, if for any reason you need to reach inside to touch up a seam you can and also the removal of excess weight from the top piece will reduce the amount flaring out of the sides you will get, since the top will not sag nearly as much.

As far as doing the cutouts, roughing them out and then using some double-stick tape to create a template and then using a flush trim bit & router to finish it off. If you have a router table you can just stick the template on the piece, drill a pilot hole and cut the whole thing out. I haven't done this before but look on post #6 here

http://web1.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=390652

that thread is good too BTW
 
Yea, it's essentially six of one and half dozen of the other. He has a nice router table, I don't. So in my case it's easier to move the tool. I plan to attach the top and flush cut it.

I was going to make a wooden jig out of MDF or something similar for the top openings... that way they are consistent. Otherwise it's going to be a big PITA to hand cut 2 or 3 identical openings in the top of the tank.....

I completely agree that the tank needs to breathe though and you need access to the inside...

So I figured glue on the top, trim it, fabricate the openings, then attach the bottom.

I suspect I have a minor fit issue at the top anyway. one of my panels is 1/8" short.... bottom is all flush.... Should I just glue a piece of acrylic say 1/2x1/2 or 3/4x3/4 to fix it? The tank is an in-wall anyway and the top won't be visible in the final install.

Besides, I personally think a piece of block with the edge rounded, glued into the corner would significantly strengthen the tank. Of course, I don't do this for a living and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night... :) I do however like to over-engineer things.
 
Wasn't sure if it was appropriate in this thread, although there has been some great advice here, and folks who really know their stuff...
Bought a used tank, and it took some damage on the way home.. pictures in this thread.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=19430551#post19430551
I'd love if someone could comment on what if anything I can do to feel confident in trying to fill it. I don't want to water test if it could cause the side to blow out or something since I'm not deep enough into this yet that I couldn't re-sell as a reptile tank and recoup most if not all of what I spent...
Sorry about the cross post... could just really use the advice...
 
its possible crazing if you cant feel it on either side.

what thickness is it made from?
and do you know the manufacturer??
 
its 3/8 inch (at least that's what it measures too) and I haven no idea on the manufacturer.. bout it used from a guy who "won" it in a storage auction...
 
I dont like the 3/8" thickness, but im no builder....

plus, it has sharp corners cut in the top bracing, which adds a lot of stress to the corners and will cause a weak link in the tank.(most use a larger radius to spread the stress)

If you could make money on converting it for reptiles, then thats what i would do... but maybe a master of acrylic will chime in and give you their opinion on the thinness of the material.
 
Well, I don't think it's going to blow out.... it looks like impact damage... probably hurts the pride more than the tank.

I would do a couple of different things....
1) get yourself some WO3 and some scrap acrylic.... and I recommend the syring applicator. Play with the scrap and learn to apply the WO3 ...

Put the tank so that the damage is flat (level) and then let some WO3 soak on that area. It will seep in and bond the cracks.

2) If you are really worried, you can use some 1/4" or 3/8" material to make a patch for that spot. Overlap it by a few inches.... make sure the part that butts against the other side is smooth (see the DIY acrylic stuff for what that means)... and then carefully glue it in place. If you find that WO3 is too difficult you could consider using WO16, but many people have reported it's difficult to get applied properly. WO means WeldOn and it's a type of adhesive for acrylic.

I personally would water test it and see what happens... I think the worst you are looking at is a seep. Beyond that I think you just found a new home for your magnet mount powerhead... :)

What is covered can be left to the imagination....
 
On a related note, I'm taking a beating in another thread for daring to ask about bonding PVC to acrylic.... I have a space issue in my overflow and the ideal solution is to weld PVC to acrylic where the plumbing exits the overflow.....

I'm thinking a tight fit and weld a coupling in there. Spacing of 1.5" or so between couplings.... is there a reason this won't work? WO16 claims to bond PVC and Acrylic. Design depth of the overflow is around 8 inches.. Overflow will be constructed from 1/2" material.

The space constraint derives from two things:
1- I want to incorporate an emergency overflow
2- I would like to move my closed loop intake into the overflow and out of the display tank for livestock safety and aesthetics.

My napkin engineering suggests that the flow rate is equivalent to two 2 inch pipes and that they represent an area of roughly 12 square inches. The overflow width is 18 inches and I anticipate 3/4 inch of water over the weir. I don't think I'm going to overload my weir by moving a second drain into the overflow. If anything I may need to put a divider in there if I get bubbles.

My plan to deal with removability is to use pvc glue on the bottom of the coupling that is welded into the overflow... if I have to cut it I will insert a union in the line at that time. The upper side of the drains will be pushed in but not glued as I anticipate periodically needing to remove them for cleaning etc. I'm planning on implementing a Bean style overflow on this tank....
 
I'd likely patch over-top given that as an option for my own sense of security, even after having let it seep into the cracks.. The problem is that I can't feel it on either side.. will it actually "melt" through to get to the cracks?
its the side, so its not going to matter to me looks wise...
If you patching over top would you attach to the front also? so, patch the entire corner? or would I be adding stress to the front that way?
 
I dont like the 3/8" thickness, but im no builder....

plus, it has sharp corners cut in the top bracing, which adds a lot of stress to the corners and will cause a weak link in the tank.(most use a larger radius to spread the stress)

If you could make money on converting it for reptiles, then thats what i would do... but maybe a master of acrylic will chime in and give you their opinion on the thinness of the material.

I wouldn't make money, but I could probably recoup the money I put into it. I'm not sure I like the 3/8" thickness, but I've seen quite a few commercial tanks built that way...so I wonder if some of the hype on that is over cautious... I don't know, just wonder. Of course, if it were thicker, I might not have this issue...
 
I wouldn't make money, but I could probably recoup the money I put into it. I'm not sure I like the 3/8" thickness, but I've seen quite a few commercial tanks built that way...so I wonder if some of the hype on that is over cautious... I don't know, just wonder. Of course, if it were thicker, I might not have this issue...

This is really just basic engineering. A 90 degree inside corner is the start of a crack.... think about a piece of paper cut in an L. Pull the legs... where is it going to break? At the inside corner.

Acrylic is the same way basically. It creates a weak point. A radiused corner can handle substantially more load.

The rule of thumb thrown out around here is a 2 inch radius.... which is technically a 4" circle. I dunno, I used a 3 inch circle saw to make my corners and I think they'll be just fine. I'm planning to reinforce the center brace and end where the external overflow is with a 2"x1/2" by tank width crossmember mounted above the tank.

Again, basic engineering applies, what I want to do is resist bowing in the top. The reason is that when the sides flex, they will pull or push (distort) the top. If all that you have for the top is the center brace it's going to flex. So if you reinforce it with a perpendicular member wide enough to resist shear forces it will resist the flexing of the center brace and thus the side walls. The beautiful thing about acrylic as opposed to glass is that you can actually fabricate and weld like you would with steel. As a result it behaves basically the same way.

While the forces at work seem powerful and mysterious.... rest assured 4,000 pounds of water spread over the sides of a tank isn't really that much force.... Your car tire hitting a bump at 30 mph has substantially more going on to put it in perspective.

so back to your tank.... WeldOn is a solvent. You will be able to see if WO3 seeps in there or not.

the best way to remember where to patch is to think about a bicycle tire. Would you patch the outside? Probably not. In fact if you could.. you would turn the tub inside out and patch the inside of the tube because that is the strongest place to put a patch. The air wanting to escape (or water in our case) would have to push the patch out.

Quick and dirty? Get some 1/4" cell cast scrap from the local plastic dealer. It's usually $1/pound around here. Cut a piece that is 2.5" larger then the outline of the damaged area.

Get some WO16 and WO3 along with an applicator syringe and some needles while you are there. Use the syringe to carefully apply solvent to the inside of the crack. Make sure you only apply solvent to a horizontal surface from the top side. It will run all over creation and make things look sloppy if you disregard this.

Let it dry for a couple of hours. Flip the tank over so the outside of the crack is facing up. Repeat the solvent seep process. A little goes a long way, but it's alright to let it puddle. It will evaporate if it doesn't soak in.

Let it sit for a few hours. After 2 hours the solvent weld has a strenght of 800 PSI per IPS' website. After something like 8 hours its at 1500 psi and after a week it's at something like 2000PSI. Acrylic has a tensile strenght of approximately 10,000 psi I seem to recall.

Now, if you want to patch it, take your patch and carefully and evenly apply wo16 to it. Apply some to the inside area where you are going to put it. The goal is to get it even so you don't make ugly air bubbles. Carefully apply it and push down. I recommend putting some weight here to compress the air bubbles out. The problem with WO16, IMHO is that it's a thicker material... It reminds me an awful lot of Testers Model Glue actually. Anyhow it's just prone to trap air bubbles in a application like this. They aren't harmful, just ugly.

The purpose of the overlap is to create a structural plate that bypasses the damaged area. Any water pressure pushing out will be retained by the 1/4" material and the remains of the tank, which I think are probably fine, but damaged visually.

If you want to be cheap you can use the material from LOWEs or Home Depot... however, it's extruded. Extruded Acrylic is chemically different and prone to misbehave. It's alot less stable, it doesn't machine, cut or react to stress well. Another member on here, Acrylics, has explained it in depth. So just realize that yes you can use HD acrylic... not polycarbonate or lexan that's like brass and aluminum when you are working with steel. They don't weld together using normal processes. In fact, metal is a great analogy. Brass is like Lexan, Aluminum is like Polycarbonate, Extruded is like Steel, and Acrylic is like stainless... they are all metal, but have different properties and strengths. Like stainless, Acrylic is the more particular to weld and can be demanding. Don't let it stop you though.... :) The worst that will happen is it will look messy.....

Hence I think you just found a great spot to put a powerhead.

I personally would WO3 it from the inside and out and then water test it. Give it a few days. If you don't have leaks, then get your kids to splash around in the tank with their hands. This will simulate wave stresses. :)

If you find you have a seep, you could try to plug with WO16 as well.

I doubt you'll have any issues. What it appears you have are stress fractures where there was a point impact and it fractured the material. A harder hit would have knocked pieces loose.

Of course, I'm just a guy in Texas who likes coral reefs..... I am not an engineer, I don't do this for a living, I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express and for all you know I weigh 400 pounds, drink 12 cans of coke a day, and love twinkies and post on here in my underwear. (2 of those statements are true and to give you a hint I'm not that heavy and I wear clothes at the computer. :) )

I do however like to understand what I'm doing, separate the BS from the fact, and play it slightly conservative with my engineering type stuff. That said I'd still solvent it to get rid of the cracks and then see what happens. My guess is nothing will happen and it will be just fine.
 
does the patch gain any structural strength if I manage a way to attach to the front as well as the side? I'm imagining the bicycle tire, and having trouble translating it to a square (it was a great example for what you were conveying, but imagining the same forces on a square is leading to problems for me..What I'm struggling with with that is whether the anchor to the front strengthens the patch by not allowing it to shift, or if it ends up weakening things because as the water tries to push the patch through the weak point, it would pull at seams for the front and the bottom...
 
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