Added Inverts... and got ICH

[lespaul339]

A couple weeks ago I added a clean up crew of 40 dwarf hermits and 10 turbo snails. I have never quarantined inverts but I always quarantine my fish for 6 weeks, have never had any signs of ich on my fish ever. Tank has been going for almost a year, most fish in the tank I've had for 3 years that were transferred from my 60 gallon.

So I add a clean up crew"¦.Then all of a sudden last friday I noticed my Regal Tang had ich. Today I noticed it on 3 more fish.

The only place I can think of is it had to come from the clean up crew. I know that chances are minimal but thats the only thing new I've introduced in over 4 months.

So have to net all the fish and do hypo salinity. Yay! My question is can I start with water already mixed to 1.009 or should I bring it down slowly? My thinking is that since you can fresh water dip a fish, then it would be ok to just put the fish right in water mixed at 1.009

This sucks because I have 12 fish in my 150 that I'm going to have to move over to a 60 gallon tank for 2 1/2 months. Things are going to be crowded.

 

[DasCamel]

If you can, tank transfer method works better with the DT being empty for the 72 days.

 

[DubiousMaximus]

Cleaner shrimp, tangs love em, at least my sailfin does. Anything new in the tank and shes taking her shrimp shower every 30min

 

[lespaul339]

If you can, tank transfer method works better with the DT being empty for the 72 days.

Unfortunately that's out of the question, so going to have to do hypo.

Cleaner shrimp, tangs love em, at least my sailfin does. Anything new in the tank and shes taking her shrimp shower every 30min

Cleaner shrimp won't cure ich. I have cleaner shrimp.

Hypo or tank transfer method and fallow 72 day DT are only thing guaranteed. And even then there are still some rare exceptions.

 

[m0nkie]

I allowed my tank to fallow for 3 whole month... just in case..

this thread is a pretty good reminder that I need to QT CUC.. I've always just rinsed them and tossed them in..

where did you get your CUC? is it from any major website?

 

[Perth_reefer]

Hypo or tank transfer method and fallow 72 day DT are only thing guaranteed. And even then there are still some rare exceptions.

72 days is definitely not guaranteed, there are numerous examples on here of people going 72 days fallow and still having ich when reintroducing fish. I would say a minimum of 72 days but nothing is guaranteed.
There is also the thought of whether removing all fish can actually do more harm than good, obviously if you can catch them easily that's all good, but ripping apart your reef and stressing out sick fish can lead to even worse results.

 

[ali1]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2509241


Goes back to the thread I created. We need to focus on a reefsafe cure instead of all these prevantative measures. Its silly to think that we need to quarantine inverts and corals too in the event there may be ich cysts lying underneath the frag.

If we quarantined every item, it would take years before we see a full established reef. Think about it, you open up so much other issues too. What happens when you want to buy 5-10 fish to put in your DT, but you cant quarantine them all because your QT is a fraction of your DT. Now you have to limit the number of fish to quarantine at one time to keep the load down in your QT. This method doesnt work well with tangs as it opens territory issues. if a purple tang is inside a tank more than 8weeks, hes not going to like when I introduce other tangs. This applies to angels and other species as well.

If we quarantine inverts, how do you know if its the 6,8,or 12 week strain. Do I toss a fish in with the inverts and monitor it for another 2 weeks to see if I catch a case of ich.

what about corals and frags? Now I have to have special lighting in my QT to determine if ich exists following 8weeks? I just wish us enthusiasts would spend more time on testing. I bet you for each case of ich someone encountered, they could run a trial case and we can keep a history of all these encounters, possibly finding a solution to all of this.

 

[Perth_reefer]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2509241We need to focus on a reefsafe cure

If we quarantined every item, it would take years before we see a full established reef.

what about corals and frags? Now I have to have special lighting in my QT.

You make some very valid points in this post. I think people over analyse way too much. Putting every snail, every frag in QT is just way over the top IMO, if that is what people want to do then that is great but the advice shouldn't be that you have to QT everything. Far out I'd have to put $700 lights over my QT for sps frags. I also read a post on here saying your QT should match your DT incase you need to remove all fish, so if you have an 8ft DT then you need an 8ft QT!!
I was actually in my LFS talking to the manager today and he was telling me about a guy who put everything through at least 10 weeks QT. He added a hippo tang, did TTM, then copper treatment, then 4 weeks QT, it still got ich.
After talking to a few very experienced reef keepers I am starting to get the opinion that of course put all fish through QT, but feed well and provide a stress free DT environment, if ich occurs then healthy fish will hopefully be strong enough to fight it off, but a stressed, undernourished fish will have little to no chance.

Oh and a reef safe cure for ich.....would probably be one of the most profound moments in the history of reef keeping!!

 

[lespaul339]

I allowed my tank to fallow for 3 whole month... just in case..

this thread is a pretty good reminder that I need to QT CUC.. I've always just rinsed them and tossed them in..

where did you get your CUC? is it from any major website?

Live Aquaria.

I'm thinking I may go the 3 month route as well just to be sure. I don't want to have to ever go through this again. This sucks!

Tonight I'm going to transfer my two tangs and copperband to my 60 gallon and then put my other smaller fish in a 29 gallon. Don't want to have to set up two quarantine tanks but I don't have a choice as I think all would be stressed out even more if I put everything in the 60 gallon. What a freaking headache! If it isn't one thing it's another in this hobby. It's a good thing I love it so much because it sure can be frustrating at times! Gotta get through the bad to enjoy the good I guess.

 

[lespaul339]

72 days is definitely not guaranteed, there are numerous examples on here of people going 72 days fallow and still having ich when reintroducing fish. I would say a minimum of 72 days but nothing is guaranteed.
There is also the thought of whether removing all fish can actually do more harm than good, obviously if you can catch them easily that's all good, but ripping apart your reef and stressing out sick fish can lead to even worse results.

I agree moving them all could stress them more, but I have to do something. If I don't I'm going to lose my Regal for sure. He's got it really bad. My yellow tang is getting worse, and my copperband has it pretty good too. A lot of the smaller fish still look ok but a few of them have it too. Going to work on getting the most effected fish out first.

I think I will give it a full 3 months fallow to be absolutely sure. Not going to rush this process.

 

[lespaul339]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2509241

Goes back to the thread I created. We need to focus on a reefsafe cure instead of all these prevantative measures. Its silly to think that we need to quarantine inverts and corals too in the event there may be ich cysts lying underneath the frag.

A reef safe cure would make things so much easier in this hobby. I guess for now the only way to be sure is to quarantine every little thing we put in our tanks, or run the risk of an ich infestation. I never thought in a million years it would happen to me since I have always quarantined and treated my fish for any visible signs of diseases from day one. I never thought I'd get it from a few snails and crabs :face palm:

 

[Perth_reefer]

I agree moving them all could stress them more, but I have to do something.

That is exactly what I thought when I got ich first time around. I ripped apart my reef to catch all the fish and transfer them into QT, only 3 out of 20 fish made it through the night.
If you can catch them easily with minimum fuss then maybe give it a try but placing too much stress on an already sick fish is a recipe for disaster IMO.

 

[snorvich]

See this.

 

[lespaul339]

Have all the fish pulled out of my display. Gave everyone a 5 minute fresh water dip and now they are downstairs in 1.008 hyposalinity. Ended up losing my McCoskers Flasher Wrasse. He didn't handle the stress of it all very well. But all the other fish seem to be doing good.

Had to tear out all of my rocks, now having a hard time re-aquascaping it to look as good as it did the fist time. Ahh the joys of dealing with ich! My tank is a mess right now. Trying to stay positive but this sure sucks! All I know after all of this work is that I'm quarantining all new fish additions from here on out for a minimum of 10 weeks, and going to make everyone go through hypo and get treated with prazi before they get put in my display. I'm also going to start quarantining inverts and corals from here on out as well. Not taking any more chances!

 

[Perth_reefer]

Have all the fish pulled out of my display. Gave everyone a 5 minute fresh water dip and now they are downstairs in 1.008 hyposalinity. Ended up losing my McCoskers Flasher Wrasse. He didn't handle the stress of it all very well. But all the other fish seem to be doing good.

Had to tear out all of my rocks, now having a hard time re-aquascaping it to look as good as it did the fist time. Ahh the joys of dealing with ich! My tank is a mess right now. Trying to stay positive but this sure sucks! All I know after all of this work is that I'm quarantining all new fish additions from here on out for a minimum of 10 weeks, and going to make everyone go through hypo and get treated with prazi before they get put in my display. I'm also going to start quarantining inverts and corals from here on out as well. Not taking any more chances!

Shame about the wrasse mate, you did better than me though, I lost 3/4 of my fish pulling them out of the DT. I said the same about QT for everything after my first outbreak....didn't even get a chance, 5 days after reintroducing my fish after 72 days fallow.....ich. I'm now on fallow period 2 in the space of 3 months.

 

[lespaul339]

DId you drop the salinity of your DT tank down to 1.017? I'm thinking about trying it. They talk about it in this article. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_4/V4I4/hyposalinity/OST.htm

Also The way I did this was to give all my fish a fresh water dip for 5 minutes. Then I placed them right in water mixed at 1.008. I didn't slowly bring my water down over the course of a few days like most people recommend. I just mixed it right at 1.008. It says in that article that you can do that.

I sure hope I get rid of it the first time around. Would hate to have to go through this again. Wish you all the best the second time around. I know what you're going through and this is not fun at all!