adding/dosing milk?

[asylumdown]

Are we sure it was soy milk? I saw him post 'whole milk' at some point.

Really the central question is whether or not dosing lipids in some form has an effect or is beneficial. The rest is just sugar and protein, which is really no different than anything else people put in their tank's every day in the form of vodka, amino acids, and fish food.

I've never heard of anyone intentionally dosing fat though. There is quite a bit of published research on the poly-unsaturated fatty acids and coral in the wild, but I've not found anything to suggest corals in tanks are deficient in essential fats they can't produce on their own. Then again, I've never found anything saying they aren't...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I wouldn't say it is no different than dosing fish foods since it isn't of marine origin (hence lacks some things that are primarily found in marine foods) and is mostly dissolved or colloidal.

People who are dosing amino acids are not generally dosing whole proteins, which have very different properties, including substantial phosphate and can be more readily skimmed out.

The dosing of fat is an interesting question, along with whether anything significant will benefit from it, but there certainly is not much fat floating free in seawater. Lipids comprise less than 1% of the typical DOC. Still, that doesn't mean it could be useful.

 

[Reefvet]

Are we sure it was soy milk? I saw him post 'whole milk' at some point.

A translation of his posts on the local Taiwan site says soy milk.

How relevant I don't know, but the guy is running a Zeo system and has 16 dosing pumps adding just about everything KZ makes.

 

[asylumdown]

I wouldn't say it is no different than dosing fish foods since it isn't of marine origin (hence lacks some things that are primarily found in marine foods) and is mostly dissolved or colloidal.

People who are dosing amino acids are not generally dosing whole proteins, which have very different properties, including substantial phosphate and can be more readily skimmed out.

True, I hadn't thought of that. It would probably have different isotope ratios as well, though I'm not sure if that would actually matter.

I
The dosing of fat is an interesting question, along with whether anything significant will benefit from it, but there certainly is not much fat floating free in seawater. Lipids comprise less than 1% of the typical DOC. Still, that doesn't mean it could be useful.

One of the articles I found crushed up a bunch of different wild acropora species we regularly keep in our tanks and analyzed them for fat content. They found species, location, and depth specific differences, but had no suggestions as to what that would mean for the coral or even why (diet and light were the main guesses). Land animals aren't able to synthesize quite a few fatty acids, making them essential nutrients for. I couldn't find anything that said one way or the other if corals could get 100% of their fat requirements from their zooxanthella in a pinch, but dietary sources were suggested to play a major component in their lipid profile.

They did find that corals use a bunch of PUFAs you don't see in land animals as well as more typically terrestrial ones, but I don't know enough about fat or fatty acid nomenclature to tell if an 18(3) fatty acid in a coral and an 18(3) fatty acid in a cow is the same molecule.

I also don't know if they'd be able to absorb it directly from the water. They're pretty big molecules. However, another study found that exposing terrestrial bacteria, even bacteria that could make all their own PUFAs, to a culture medium enriched with fatty acids would alter the lipid profile of the bacteria, indicating that they can take it up from the environment. It's possible that adding fats to a tank would change the lipid profile of the bacteria corals eat. Whether that does anything "good" of course is something I probably won't test with my one and only reef tank.

 

[tmz]

The rest is just sugar ..., which is really no different than anything else people put in their tank's every day in the form of vodka


Vodka adds no sugar just ethanol.

 

[reefwars]

The rest is just sugar ..., which is really no different than anything else people put in their tank's every day in the form of vodka


Vodka adds no sugar just ethanol.

Off topic but......can fish be drunk? Random thought lol

 

[tmz]

Sure, I think so but not at anywhere near the levels dosed. At a typical dosing level of 0.06ml of 40% ethanol vodka per gallon,the water alcohol content comes out to about 0.0000065 Birds often get drunk from eating fermented sugar in over ripened berries ,btw. My fish breed a lot ;maybe the vodka has something to do with it.:lol:

 

[Ellery]

I just had my mom translate the original post he had on

http://www.ph84.idv.tw/vbb/showpost.php?p=2868574&postcount=1735

He did test both whole cow's milk and also soy milk as well.

As mentioned before he used 1cc/100 L or 1 mL / 26.4 gal per day as a nutrient source because the NP biopellets over stripped his water of Nitrates and PO4.

The honey is just a carbon source substitute, as everyone already surmised, after he got rid of the NP biopellets to keep N&PO4 in control.

Basically his tanks looks the best when there were a min amount ? of Nitrates and PO4 =0.05 ppm.

He also mentioned the soymilk seemed to have corrected his RTN issue he had prior to this in the beginning of the thread.

His main comment that this needs to be done only when you don't have excess algae around which is normally an indicator of too high N & PO4 to begin with.

All in all, I think it still supports the general basics that it's not good to have 0 ppm Nitrates or 0ppm PO4. Many who run Zeovit tell me it allows them to over feed which basically is good for the livestock.

Oh well my 2 cents on this old thread which is more of the same in my book.

Ellery

 

[doctorwhoreefer]

I just had my mom translate the original post he had on

http://www.ph84.idv.tw/vbb/showpost.php?p=2868574&postcount=1735

He did test both whole cow's milk and also soy milk as well.

As mentioned before he used 1cc/100 L or 1 mL / 26.4 gal per day as a nutrient source because the NP biopellets over stripped his water of Nitrates and PO4.

The honey is just a carbon source substitute, as everyone already surmised, after he got rid of the NP biopellets to keep N&PO4 in control.

Basically his tanks looks the best when there were a min amount ? of Nitrates and PO4 =0.05 ppm.

He also mentioned the soymilk seemed to have corrected his RTN issue he had prior to this in the beginning of the thread.

His main comment that this needs to be done only when you don't have excess algae around which is normally an indicator of too high N & PO4 to begin with.

All in all, I think it still supports the general basics that it's not good to have 0 ppm Nitrates or 0ppm PO4. Many who run Zeovit tell me it allows them to over feed which basically is good for the livestock.

Oh well my 2 cents on this old thread which is more of the same in my book.

Ellery

Tell you mom thank you!!
I've followed this thread looking into it, pretty interesting aspects of science at play.

I do agree running zeo or other carbon systems really is causing a need for more nutrition than I think the hobby gives it credit for. After I gave up trying to get zero phosphates my tanks health improved. Running .05-.2 has shown quite a lot of growth and color improvement from lps to sps alike. When I kept numbers at zero, pale colors were all over and rtn were an issue with the sps.