Advanced Tank Automation

[jdeere78]

I am thinking about writing a .NET telnet interface for the Neptune controller. It would give you the ability to read data from probs and control outputs on the controller. I've have been thinking a lot about automation. I really like the stability that a PLC or SCADA system provides but I want to go a lot further with the software and user experience. Here is my ultimate solution. Use PLC/SCADA hardware at the location of the tank. This technology has been around forever and is solid as a rock. I am also contemplating an embedded XP system depending on the hardware interfaces for the probs and sensors. This hardware would sit on an Ethernet network and communicate to an OPC server (O.L.E for Process Control) which basically gives you a COM interface on the PC side. At this point the sky is the limit and I can use .NET to write any further software.

Here are a few links if anyone is interested in OPC and control systems.
http://www.opcfoundation.org/
http://www.opcconnect.com/
http://www.opcconnect.com/ua.php
http://www.control.com/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/modbus-xml
http://www.phidgetsusa.com/

Please post if any of this interests anyone.

 

[ddenham]

boy...I really have no idea what you're talking about

/got nuthin
//at least you get a bump

 

[easttn]

Here is all the h/w you need, just need to convence the guy to ship. I do not know who he is nor have I ever met him. Seems like a good deal if you have experience with these units.

They are on ebay all the time.

 

[bill9999992]

One day this hobby will advance to full automation. We will be able to monitor our systems from work over the web and have the ability to turn lights, heaters, pumps, ect on and off. I'm sure there are a few people out there that are using PLC to control their system as we speak.

 

[TheVillageIdiot]

i want my tank to do my taxes, can you make it do that?

 

[bad inferno]

Hi Guy's new here... however thought I would give you what I've been contemplating for a while to get my controller onto the internet

Use a PICAXE Microcontroller (I have this running)

http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5135&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0
See page 2 of the above link to see my first prototype


PICAXE anybody can program these chips and has direct temperature inputs via the dallas one-wire temperature chip. where else can you get a $5.00 temp probe acurate to .5 degrees directly connected to a PIC. Real time clock and EEPROM, LCD easily connect via I2C. Check out www.picaxe.co.uk for details.


Now the trick is to get the data onto the internet....Well a really nice internet server is the linksys NSLU2 (~US$100.00) which when modified provides a Linux server suitable for all kinds of applications and it can run off a USB memory stick. Just laod SQL PHP and apache talk to the aquarium controller via USB-to-serial and you would end up with an internet enabled controller.

http://www.nslu2-linux.org/

They have already connected the NSLU2 directly to control outputs however still think the ease of setup a PICAXE interfaced would be the way to go.

any thoughts

cheers

rob Australia
(Instrument Engineer)

 

[BeanAnimal]

A lot of us are doing automation. I know of at leat 6 different DIY platforms that are being used by members here. Some vary basic PIC or ATMEL, some very robust. There are PC based systems, PLC based and hybrid combinations. (check out easttn's PLC thread using the siemens logo stuff with the touchscreen.)

You may also want to search the internet or this website for the linksys router based platform using dallas 1-wire sensors. Pretty neat. The linksys uses an ARM processor with a linux OS. You can reload the package with a linux OS that is written for dallas 1-wire.

In my case, the system is somewhat hybrid. It is a mix of Uc technology and a PC. Embedded XP is a pain in the butt if you ask me. With the new mini-itx and nano-itx mobos, it is easy to run the full OS. Using XPLITE you can pare down most of the uneeded stuff and end up just as stable is embedded XP (if stable is even an applicable workd).

There are also some fairly robust ethernet stacks or add-ons for micros. This is HUGE in terms of what you are looking to do.

 

[Avast Marine]

I guess I need clarification as to what "advanced" tank automation is. From your first post: reading probe data and being able to control outputs on the controller. If this is the limit that you need it seems it could be accomplished much easier and more cost effectively with a static ip and pc anywhere. Now I am definitely not a IT guy so please tell me if I am off base, or just give me more details as what the end result of this automation would entail.
Thanks

 

[xtrstangx]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7571030#post7571030 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bill9999992
One day this hobby will advance to full automation. We will be able to monitor our systems from work over the web and have the ability to turn lights, heaters, pumps, ect on and off. I'm sure there are a few people out there that are using PLC to control their system as we speak.

I know a guy that can do that now. He had to write a program for it or something, but its not a huge leap from what we have already for controllers.

 

[thesaent14]

QUOTE]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7571030#post7571030 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bill9999992
One day this hobby will advance to full automation. We will be able to monitor our systems from work over the web and have the ability to turn lights, heaters, pumps, ect on and off. I'm sure there are a few people out there that are using PLC to control their system as we speak. [/QUOTE]

yes we are few this is my freands page i use the same but don't have my camara set up ,use as a user name guest and pasw guest take alook at the reefcam and you will be able to control the camara zoom and go left and rigth i will be posting my asa i ge my vido capture card i order

btw on the controler use the same to log in and control the camara is a 500g tank in utha

http://homeseer.bounceme.net:8080/

 

[thesaent14]

wow i was tinking some one was going to say somting

 

[Avast Marine]

I checked it out, pretty cool. If this is the current limit to tank automation I will just stick to the Neptune connected via serial to my pc and check on it with pc anywhere if needed. The only real differance I see is that you guys wouldn't be able to check in on things, but I post enough pics on the boards to satisfy that .

 

[BeanAnimal]

I don't know that there is a limit, it is just a matter of what is realistic or what you want to accompolish. It is not hard to automate water changes, realistic sunrise and sunsets, tides, wave action, lunar cycles and other things.

Water chemistry adjustments can be automated as well.

The problems arise when you move from "monitoring" to "controlling" and the failsafes that are required to keep your life support going in any given set of adverse events.

I have chosen to leave most critical life support systems to proven technology, such as a RANCO for temperature control. My setup will do mostly monitoring with very robust reporting (phone, email, etc). The solar and lunar cycles will be automated as well as vacation feeding. Other than that water chemistry and all other aspects will be "monitor only". In the begining I had intentions of automated water changes and other similar things. It is simply not worth my time to do it and do it right.

 

[lou48314]

Re: Advanced Tank Automation

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7568126#post7568126 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jdeere78
Use PLC/SCADA hardware at the location of the tank. This technology has been around forever and is solid as a rock. I am also contemplating an embedded XP system depending on the hardware interfaces for the probs and sensors. This hardware would sit on an Ethernet network and communicate to an OPC server (O.L.E for Process Control) which basically gives you a COM interface on the PC side. At this point the sky is the limit and I can use .NET to write any further software.

Please post if any of this interests anyone.

I am a controls engineer and I work with PLC's nearly everyday of my life.
I was thinking of the same thing using a Telemecanique controller. It is an "all-in-one" solution for the PLC side of your idea. It supports TCP/IP and once you get that you can do whatever you want with the data collected from either digital or analog inputs. Heck, you can even regulate dosing based upon the input from the probes using analog outputs.
My lack of knowledge is in writing the OPC and the GUI for all of this. I already know seven or eight types of PLC's and how to configure and program them.
Another little PLC out there that is suitable for this application is made by a company named WAGO. Their programming software for the PLC is absolutely free too.

 

[H20ENG]

Welcome Lou!
Glad to have you here! I have a Siemans PLC, but have been eyeballing the "Smart Relays" with up to 8 outputs for a few projects. Been meaning to look up the Wago, so thanks for the reminder
Chris

 

[Donw]

You can pretty much have your way with tank or any other automation you want fairly cheap with the Applied Digital Ocelot and it modules. Mine is all hard wired and easily controlled remote with VPN. Fully ir and rf remote controllable locally. It just takes a little creativity. Plenty of relay, analog and digital controls including rs232. I can do a water change from my office if needed or change my photo period from another country.

Don

 

[BeanAnimal]

the ocelot as in the security system with home automation functionality?

Don you are always very innovative, but I certainly would not wish to twist my brain around that whole conglomeration of technologies and "end user" hacks. It's one thing to dive in and learn electronics, Uc design or PLC programming. It's another to learn home automation using rs232 and rs485 x10 and script based automation.

Interesting to say the least (I used to spend a lot of time with home automation products and similar home theater automation products (crestron and other theater autotmation stuff). I was left with the impression that it is ALL a nightmare As well I am somewhat familiar with the silent knight and other "advanced" alarms systems from years past... again what a freakin nightmare.

I have seen some very imperssive stuff with homeseer and ocelot based systems, but again it appears the most of the VERY FUNCTIONAL setups are mazes of equipment and hacks to get things to work correctly or add needed failsafes and functionality.

Would you care to elaborate on your setup?

 

[Donw]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7725271#post7725271 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
the ocelot as in the security system with home automation functionality?

Don you are always very innovative, but I certainly would not wish to twist my brain around that whole conglomeration of technologies and "end user" hacks. It's one thing to dive in and learn electronics, Uc design or PLC programming. It's another to learn home automation using rs232 and rs485 x10 and script based automation.

Interesting to say the least (I used to spend a lot of time with home automation products and similar home theater automation products (crestron and other theater autotmation stuff). I was left with the impression that it is ALL a nightmare As well I am somewhat familiar with the silent knight and other "advanced" alarms systems from years past... again what a freakin nightmare.

I have seen some very imperssive stuff with homeseer and ocelot based systems, but again it appears the most of the VERY FUNCTIONAL setups are mazes of equipment and hacks to get things to work correctly or add needed failsafes and functionality.

Would you care to elaborate on your setup?

Bean,

The ocelot is NOT a cheap x10 alarm system(not a alarm system at all) The homeseer x10 systems are really a joke compared to a hardwired stand alone ocelot systems. My entire system is hardwired with a 2 wire network. Everything is relay controlled from the lighting to the top off. You can use simple easy to find sensors like float switches and like my top off a optical sensor(in my gallery). You can use any 0-5v or 4-20ma sensors found all over the place. It runs stand alone so NO pc to hang and stop the controll functions. The programming is very simple, even I got the hang of it in just a few hours.
All this tcp/ip stuff and cute little web sites is just limiting hype,xp gave us vpn which by far easier and superior.
There are no mazes of equipment. The suecu16i module has 8 relays and 8 io's analog or digital. This single piece is enough for most systems to handle all basic control functions such as lighting, top-off and temp all with plenty of fail safes.

My system is pretty wild but its also another one of my hobbies. I can do some pretty odd stuff. One thing I really like is the heated one pint of rodi water that gets injected into the beckett air line each afternoon. But only if the tank temp is less than 81 and the skimmer waste container is not full. Otherwise I have to clean it manually and that wouldnt be any fun. I can go on for hours but its very simple to keep it simple. If you can controll the urge to keep adding more and more automation.

Don

 

[thesaent14]

this is getting really goo ill like to know or beter yet can you show us some pics and diagrans to have somting similar thanks

 

[Donw]

Here are some.

These two pieces with msc sensors will control most tanks.

Don