Advise: Open Brains & LPS struggling in 'clean' water?

[qessnce]

Are these species known to struggle in excellent water? I have two open brain corals, and I would be heartbroken if they were to die. They seem to be doing progressively worse as time goes on. They are becoming more translucent, but to me, bleaching seems a little far fetched, since these guys are at least 15" below water surface; their placement is in the lower 1/3 portion of the tank.

Tank parameters have been steady and pretty spot on for the past 2 weeks(testing daily, sometimes day/night, twice a day).

SG: 1.024-1.025
pH: 8.0-8.2
dkH: 10
Ca: 450 (raised from 400 over time)
Mg: N/A
T: 78.6-81.4
NO3: 0 ppm
NO2: 0 ppm
NH3/NH4: 0 ppm
PO4: 0 ppm

daily dosing: BRS 2 part: 5ml Alkalinity Soln, 10ml Ca Soln

Tank is a 41g Fluval Osaka, total system volume is roughly 75g.
Light is provided by a single Rapid PAR38 bulb 4 inches above waterline, 9 hour photoperiod.

Here are some pictures...

Red Brain roughly 1 week after introduction-

Red Brain just a few minutes ago-

Green Brain roughly 1 week after introduction-

Green Brain just a few minutes ago-

I do not believe they have any kind of disease. One of the clowns appears to host the Red brain in the evening.

Will a dip in coral ReVive help them? :sad1:

 

[greech]

Looks like bleacking to me. Are these guys in the center of the PAR 38's cone or off to the side? Have you tried feeding them and if so are you seeing a feeding response?

 

[qessnce]

Thanks for the reply..They are at least 2"+ away from the center of the light. They have never extended feeding tentacles, but there was always a response of sorts (inflating) when food came their way. I don't know if they ever took food in.

Should I move them even further away from the light? They came from a LFS that had them under T5-HO near the mid/upper portion of the tank.

 

[wabbitbugs]

Try squiring a bit of koralfluid over their mouths. Tends to induce a feeding reaction in my experience. I find that they need to be 'trained' to eat and feeding post squirt works quite well. I would imagine similar liquid/tiny food would work too. I do think feeding is part of the issue.


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[qessnce]

I picked up some Cyclop-eeze Flake food yesterday. Should I try feeding a mix of D-D phyto + crushed Cyclop-eeze?

In another thread, some mentioned the dangers of feeding a weakened coral, citing the risk of food rotting causing disease..

 

[oceanarium]

I have some similar red open brains that never like high level light, green I have no issues with.

Look at AA's as well as the feeding your investigating.

0 PO4 and NO3 is not ideal conditions for LPS, unless your specifically chasing ULNS for some reason I would look at reducing your nutrient reduction program allowing a little PO4 <0.03 and a little NO3 <2ppm to build.

 

[qessnce]

Hi Pete, thanks for the post. I didn't intend on this system becoming a ULNS, but it just happened to be that way I guess. The only fish I have are the two small/medium black ocellaris clowns and a small collection of snails. Filtration is chaeto+ulva, LR, and SC-65 skimmer.

Even when I satellite feed, the chaeto just grows faster. Nutrients still zero or at least really close to it. Should I go looking for more fish? :fish1:



Anyways, I went ahead and dipped both trachys in TLF's ReVive for the prescribed time. I placed them on the sand now, just in case it was a lighting issue. I will keep you updated on the feeding response. :worried2:

 

[oceanarium]

I would think the AA's would help, more fish could do too.

I run a system with similar problems and find it helpful to run the skimmer on a timer for only part of the day.

 

[Useful_Idiot]

My lps have done really poorly a few times for me. Finally after looking back on my notes it was always when magnesium was around 1300 and p04 at 0. But I believe it was only the low mag being the cause. For some reason mg is really important to lps. Maybe you change enough water to not need to supplement it but if you got a bad batch of salt with low mag That could be your problem. I also question my ability to read the color change on the test kit and maybe it was actually lower than 1300. You should find out what it is and keep it around 1400.

 

[qessnce]

More fish are in the works...but I'm extremely cautious with any fish additions after reading so many horror stories. These current clowns have been with me for over 2 years now .

I've done roughly 10% water changes every 1.5 weeks. Recently I've been using a 50/50 mix of Instant Ocean and Red Sea Coral Pro, with hopes of transitioning to the Red Sea eventually when IO runs out. If your results have been better with mag at 1400, then it is a valid possibility. My mag could be no higher than 1350, according to the synth. salt mixes thread.

I will put in the order for my Mg test kit asap as well. I've been meaning to get one eventually.

Keep the suggestions coming. I'm taking notes. Thanks all.

 

[arch85]

Might be a little bit off topic, but are brains/wellsos known to move? Ours loves to move -- of course, he doesn't move fast -- he inflates to his fullest in the morning, and in the evening as he is deflating, his bottom hard part is usually not in the same spot anymore

His colors and feeding are doing well otherwise...

I do have to admit, our water is not the best quality, and we feed quite a lot ... so maybe that's what helps it keep happy?

 

[theman772]

dkh at 10 on the high side
cal 450 also on the high side
your water mybe to clean but somthing else is going on your parameters have been like this for only 2 weeks not a long time imo what were your parameters 2weeks ago?

 

[qessnce]

Parameters were same except for calcium. Two weeks ago, calc dropped to 380-400ppm. We were unable to identify what was soaking up all the calc. In any case, it was brought up to the current level of ~ 450 over almost 2 weeks. Could the change have caused distress for the animals?

I'm looking at the spec sheet for red sea coral pro salt. It appears their calcium levels are pretty high as well. Instant ocean seems to have high dkh. There might be some disconnect I'm completely oblivious to. Maybe someone can comment further on this.

In addition to the dip today, i also moved them onto the sandbed and fed the tank. They did not send out feeding tentacles. I will continue to monitor them.

 

[LH77]

Not an expert, but to me, the picture of the last open brain looks like it needs to be fed. Have you tried target feeding them? In some tanks they get enough leftovers from what the fish don't eat. In my tank there's always an opportunist, fish or shrimp, looking for a free meal that will steal food from them. If one of the open brains is hosting the clowns, the clowns hosting behavior may dislodge food before the brain grabs it (they do in my tank).

Things I do.
- Target feed it once a week . When I miss it starts to look ragged like the last picture.
- Turn of the pumps for 20 minutes when target feeding the open brain, don't want the food to float way.
- Cover the open brain with 2-liter Coke bottle top (keeps the clowns away long enough for it to eat), then squirt the food in though the open top.
- Tend to feed them defrosted mysis shrimp (occasionally cyclopeeze), just a squirt in the center of the open brain, eventually it will maneuver the shrimp to it's mouths.

Good luck.

 

[qessnce]

Not an expert, but to me, the picture of the last open brain looks like it needs to be fed. Have you tried target feeding them? In some tanks they get enough leftovers from what the fish don't eat. In my tank there's always an opportunist, fish or shrimp, looking for a free meal that will steal food from them. If one of the open brains is hosting the clowns, the clowns hosting behavior may dislodge food before the brain grabs it (they do in my tank).

Things I do.
- Target feed it once a week . When I miss it starts to look ragged like the last picture.
- Turn of the pumps for 20 minutes when target feeding the open brain, don't want the food to float way.
- Cover the open brain with 2-liter Coke bottle top (keeps the clowns away long enough for it to eat), then squirt the food in though the open top.
- Tend to feed them defrosted mysis shrimp (occasionally cyclopeeze), just a squirt in the center of the open brain, eventually it will maneuver the shrimp to it's mouths.

Good luck.

I like this. I will try this tonight. Last night, a mix of crushed cyclopeeze and phyto was sent their direction. No feeding tentacles. I'm hoping they might still be taking in some of the smaller food particles.

 

[theman772]

on the 2 part you should be adding the same ml of #1 and #2 with the 2 part you use 1 gal of #1 1gal # 2 and I think 32oz of mag and start over
are you runing any denitrater (bio pellets) reactor?

 

[qessnce]

on the 2 part you should be adding the same ml of #1 and #2 with the 2 part you use 1 gal of #1 1gal # 2 and I think 32oz of mag and start over
are you runing any denitrater (bio pellets) reactor?

That makes sense. I based the dosing regimen on the calculator..and even then, the calculator was suggesting some 40ml+ of dkh. I've been adding far less of both. Could the dosing be angering them?

I'm not running any reactors or gfo. Just live rock, macros, and skimmer.

 

[trinidiver]

Thanks for the reply..They are at least 2"+ away from the center of the light. They have never extended feeding tentacles, but there was always a response of sorts (inflating) when food came their way. I don't know if they ever took food in.

Should I move them even further away from the light? They came from a LFS that had them under T5-HO near the mid/upper portion of the tank.

For mths i never saw any feeder tentacles on my brains and doughnuts, until one night i was making sure everyone was ok and actually saw them out. Every night after that they came out. Ever since that, i've been feeding a little when all my fish are asleep (excepting my pajama cardinals). i crush up mysis shrimp and sometimes give some kent cromamax liquid

 

[theman772]

okay the calculator is to get your parameters up then test test and test you should be able to find out how much the tank needs every 24hr and dose that amount so test the water put the 10ml of sol# test again and so on 10ml is a good way to start

 

[qessnce]

Got it. I have a feeling I am still not dosing enough, and the 450 reading posted originally could possibly be a false reading. I checked again yesterday, and the salifert kit came back with Ca at .25 ml, which = 355 ppm, even after keeping up with the 10ml/daily dose.

Another thread by April in this subforum showed a recovering 'meat coral' that is placed under a transparent plastic dome with a hole on the top. I would try this, but I don't have any fish that currently steal food from the coral - the coral just seemed to never be able to take in any food. Food seems to slide off of the valleys. Thus, I'm not sure how much help confining it in a safe-space would be...