Air pump drawing outside air into skimmer silencer for low ph

[Turbo5oh]

Hello everyone, it's been a while since posting on here. I have searched some old threads to find info but to of little avail. so i thought i'd reach out and ask.

i'm wondering if anyone has experience with running a small 1/4-ish line to outside and then using a air pump to draw air in and then route to the air silencer on my skimmer.
i would of course have to adjust or attach it correctly to not interfere with the venturis vacuum and to not pressurize the silencer chamber.
i was thinking a T off the air pump hose with one side of the T going to the input of the silencer and the other side of the T would be open so that any unused outside air could freely escape outside of the silencer intake.

I haven't used many air pumps over the years so i'm also looking for recommendations on air pumps with an input and output to accomplish what i'm looking to do. too add, a very low noise pump is a must.

The main idea behind this it to avoid any restriction to the skimmers air needs and to also be able to build a carbon filter chamber in line of the air pump to avoid any outside air contaminants reaching my skimmer. i'm not looking to run 3/4 -1 pipe or hose to the outside air and the skimmer passively drawing from that. it's a commercial rental building so trying to keep the outside wall hole small.

i look forward to your comments and appreciate any advice.
Thank you! :wavehand:

 

[mcgyvr]

I'd just suggest not worrying about your PH..
Many of the top coral farmers have sub 8 PH levels..

But to answer your question.. You do not need an air pump and it won't work properly with one either.. You can run a larger tube to reduce some of the restriction but besides that plenty of people run long airlines to their skimmer an achieve some increase in PH..

 

[ineedhungry]

I did not use an air pump, but I did run an airline outside so my skimmer can pull in outside air.

It made a huge difference in my ph. My ph would hardly go above 8 before. After the airline it never goes below 8. My corals are much happier now and have much better polyp extension. I recommend this to anyone that has a ph problem.

Attached is an image of the results just after the first day.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Turbo5oh]

mcgyvr. without starting and argument, it's kind of silly to simply dismiss it and to say it will not work.
i would rather have low ph than affect my skimmers performance by using the venturi vacuum to draw air 30 ft away on top of putting an inch + hole in our siding.
besides another benefit of the pump, i will be able to incorporate a activated carbon chamber to remove dust and simple airborne contaminants. there are 50+ people coming through this business daily - floors, windows and mirrors being cleaned daily all with aromatics in the cleaners. there's no air exchanger in the building as well.
im hoping it will also lower the amount of weekly maintenance cleaning of the skimmers air silencer.

on a side note i'd bet most of those coral farmers are using calcium reactors and are running elevated alk to offset the issues of sub 8 ph.

 

[ca1ore]

First of all, the benefits of running a fresh air line to the skimmer are unpredictable, at best. I'd suggest trying it on your system with a hose out the window first. On my tank, a fresh air line makes a negligible difference to pH. If you find it be beneficial, the trick, whether you use an air pump as air flow booster or not, is to ensure the line doesn't put drag on the skimmer - that will drive the performance down significantly. You will also have to make sure that the air pump is of higher CFM than the skimmer draw, otherwise same problem. My suspicion is that you will need a more robust air pump than the standard single output, hobby grade device. Possibly something like this ..... it won't be silent though:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XDKRYC...t=&hvlocphy=9003454&hvtargid=pla-322824042950

 

[Turbo5oh]

maybe i didn't explain this well enough, the outside air feed would not plug the current silencer inlet it would be setup similar to an ozone setup without a ozone port.
the outside air line would be placed inline with the silencer intake so that if the air pump produced more or less air than the skimmer is using it will not hinder or overdrive the venturis vacuum.

simplest way to explain would be to just place the outside air output near the silencers input. like putting a biopellet reactors output near a skimmers pump input.
it can draw air as normal but the outside air source will be the closest available source of air to the silencers intake.

this building is a 5000 sq/ft dance studio with no air exchanger and a double door entrance that allows minimal fresh air to enter the building. the interior windows literally fog up with the amount of people breathing in the building at times. with doors or windows open on warmer days the ph will raise .3-.4.
there's a small chance it won't help but my rough findings thus far are leaning towards it. this isn't a typical home aquarium situation

 

[ca1ore]

The reason opening windows works, or even using a large blower, is that the CO2 laden air is fully exchanged. Running a line provides the skimmer with fresh air, but the rest of the system is still sitting in CO2 laden air. Hard to see why it would make much of a difference.

 

[Turbo5oh]

Ok so my reef tank with open tops in enclosed canopy and enclosed stand/sump area has more air exchange than my protien skimmer that shreds 1200 l/h of air directly into the water. Hmmm.
So the accepted way of adding ozone to systems is being done completely wrong and ozone should just be added to the surrounding area of the tank.
Thanks for you opinion.

Is there anyone with real experience available to chime in here?

 

[ca1ore]

:lol: so I guess you're really not looking forward to comments and appreciating any advice; or at least any that counters your dogmatic views. Comical.

 

[mako61]

I ran a .5 inch line to a window then to my skimmer. I didnt use/need the silencer then just match it to the .5 line. It raised my PH by around 0.1 It is pretty easy to see if it works. Not sure my tank is any happier, it was more of a experiment for me.

 

[Fishbulb2]

Wow, not a great "conversation". Regardless, what you propose to set up is incredibly simple. So why not just try it and see what you get? Your idea of hooking it up as you would ozone, with a Tee so that the skimmer can draw in air from the pump or ambient, is exactly the way to go. You could start with the airline just hanging outside a window that's almost shut and see if it helps.

I find a big difference on my pH when I open a window, but as ca1ore stated, it could be because I'm exchanging the whole rooms air. I've never ran a line from my skimmer outside.

 

[Turbo5oh]

Thanks Fishbulb2 for your insight. Sorry to come off stern, i just have a short fuse for mis-information. I.e 11 years and under 100 post on here
My simple test runs show an improvememt with fresh air and like i said this is a little different situation than most people have dealt with.
There's 300+ different students exercising plus parents waiting in this small building through out the week so lots of C02 being expelled and very little "new" air coming in.

I was mainly looking for someone that didnt have to poke a 1" hole through their siding to get a fresh air source thats why im chasing this more complicated route. Maybe im too outside the box on this one.

 

[Turbo5oh]

Thank you ineedhungry and mako61 for your useful insight as well. ill listen to peoples real experience all day!
The uninformed theory's is what i find truly comical

 

[homer1475]

So someone with 20+ years of experience and considered one of the best voices on these board says it won't make a huge difference, yet 2 people with the same views as you, and with only limited experience you believe. Interesting in deed.

Anecdotal evidence and real world application, I ran an outside airline to my skimmer, did absolutely nothing. My PH went from a nominal 7.8 to 7.9. It's the CO2 in your house/tank area that will have the greatest affect on it.

You know what really helped? Throwing away my PH probe for the apex. :thumbsup:

PH is what it is and when you stop watching it, and obsessing over it, things will be much better.

The main point here being that we have small glass boxes full of water soaking up CO2 from its surroundings, it's that Co2 laden air that will make your PH what it wants to be and the little bit of fresh air your going to inject will more then likely have little to no impact.

Reef tanks are much happier when their stewards don't obsess over numbers.

 

[Turbo5oh]

Great opinion, wonderfully helpful. This place never changes.
Again thanks to all with actual hands on experience. May be time to finally check out r 2 r

 

[mcgyvr]

To be clear..
Running a line from the outside can help some as I said..
"results may vary"

What I was saying doesn't work is the air pump..
I was a little short in my answer and should have just said that it doesn't work well as the adjustment needed is very fine/precise to not effect the skimmer/venturi. It can likely also require frequent adjustment.. In the long run its just better to skip the pump and just run the tube..
Or just do a Co2 scrubber on it..

 

[Turbo5oh]

thanks for clearing that up Mcgyvr. the co2 scrubber is still an option at this point. maybe scrubbing might be the answer till i can spend some more time investigating this positive pressure fresh air source idea.

the tanks almost 1.5 years old and always had low ph, i found keeping higher alk has helped offset it and growth has been OK.
just a short history on the tank, i went from just water changes to kalk in the top off to a kalk reactor dosing on a timer. really trying to avoid 2 part on this tank, already dealing with it on my office nano tank.
the kalk has helped get the ph to 7.8 during light cycle (confirmed w/multiple test styles)

the tank works and grows but always looking for improvement without adding to the list of chores. which is the struggle for everyone really

 

[HBtank]

For context, outdoor air is generally .04% CO2 and indoor air may only be 2-3x that level. Would be interesting to see what it is in a heavily populated room with little ventilation.

 

[mako61]

To be clear..
Running a line from the outside can help some as I said..
"results may vary"

What I was saying doesn't work is the air pump..
I was a little short in my answer and should have just said that it doesn't work well as the adjustment needed is very fine/precise to not effect the skimmer/venturi. It can likely also require frequent adjustment.. In the long run its just better to skip the pump and just run the tube..
Or just do a Co2 scrubber on it..

I also use CO2 scrubber media. It jumped my PH more than outside air. It wears out in a couple weeks and is not cheap. I put the scrubber inline to outside air hidden behind tank. Again pretty easy to test, but more cost than just a vinyl tube to window.

My kids ( and all their friends) are no longer in my house. One off to college and another a job. So my PH has came up just from that. ( college is hard on the fish budget )

All in All I think there are a lot more important things that make a tank successful. I dont think chasing numbers helps. That said I do enjoy tinkering with things probably to my demise.

If you are serious about CO2 scrubber. Get the media from shopmedvet search soda lime. About the cheapest I have found, but still not cheap.

 

[Turbo5oh]

HBtank- i'm actually trying to source or borrow something to test the Co2 concentration in the building. if it works out i think it would be very helpful to see what if anything is causing the issue and what corrective measure could help. if the concentration isn't as high as i expect it i may go with a scrubber although that adds a possibility of stability issues if i dont stay on top of the media changes

Mako61 - thanks for the advice and heads up on media sourcing.