Algae Scrubber Basics

[srusso]

Do not use a sock in an algae scrubber tank. It will kill pods and traps food that your ATS will feed on. Small particulates in the water will get trapped in the sticky algae so the sock is not needed. If you take a look at my harvest you will see small particles that get trapped.

 

[King_Richard]

I agree about the socks, they're not required 24/7. I only use one when I'm siphoning out the display tank, I clean the tank by siphoning down into the sump where I put a sock on the end to catch all debris, then I do a water change if it's due.

Alright, I had a couple post in the older thread but I finally changed my scrubber to the knitting plastic material. So much better now, I did spend about half hour or so roughening it up until it looked nice and fuzzy like. Already within the first half day I've noticed a huge improvement over the fiberglass screen that I originally had. Not only that, but it looks as though it'll be easier to clean. I screwed up the original fiberglass screen when I cleaned it over the weekend entering week 4 or 5, I accidently scraped both sides while I was only cleaning one side, make sense? I guess the screen wasn't rough enough to hold algae very well.

The water flow is really nice on my upgrade, the only concern I have is that I stuck the screen about 1/4" into the slot that I cut out, is that okay? The screen fits in like a glove, but that worries me because I'm not sure if everything will be able flow out of the slot. I guess I'll see how it looks inside when I go to clean it. Also, some 40, 60, or 80 grit sandpaper will clean your slot up nicely if you have any cuts that aren't straight. For the splatter at the end, I attacthed the leftover material at the end to make the water run down instead of spary, it works pretty good. The spray bar isn't glued in but the elbow that holds the bar is glued and attatched to a threaded union. I also ran out of 1" caps so I came with a nifty plug for the time being. Or, I may just leave the elbow on there and run it into some tubing for an emergency overflow type setup.

My scrubber is 14" x 12" and hangs in the water an inch or two. It's lit by 4 x 26w CFL's, two of them are the 2700k (I think) and the other two are the 6500k. Why the mix in colors, I don't know, just want to test them out before I purchase LED's next month or hopefully not too much later then that for the LED's.

The AScIII pic is two plastic flower pots acting as reflectors, yet to add the reflective material since I got the idea of turning the bulbs sideways to the screen instead of the spotlighing effect, so now I need to redo the pvc holders for them. I also used an outdoor rubber coated and vaseline coated sockets for the bulbs. Those sockets fit nicely into 1 1/4" elbow, I used the one that goes down to 1" on the other end of the elbow and ran the wires in the pvc. I also prefer the pvc since my aluminum reflectors are rusting where the brackets that hold them are. Those aluminum reflectors are almost a year old.

EDIT: I bought two 12x18 knitting plastic screen things, lol, I remember someone was having a hard time finding them, if so just pm me and I'll give you the extra one that I got.

 

[afgun]

When was that?

I believe the screen you are talking about didnt give a very good surface to flow down. The "honeycombs" were to deep and didnt let the water sheet very well. Also it was to thick for good light penetration to the center.

June 2009 on page 56 of that monster thread on another site. So it was abandoned? Is roughed-up yarn canvas still the recommended material then?

 

[srusso]

King Richard, I would switch your bulbs 6500k's to the 2,700k... they will not work well. I have tested even 5k's and that had much less growth then my 2,700K bulbs.

LEDs for scrubbers are still very early and I dont think anyone has quite got it right... at least not yet.

Also please post pictures of your tank, and post water testing results if you can. thanks

 

[srusso]

June 2009 on page 56 of that monster thread on another site. So it was abandoned? Is roughed-up yarn canvas still the recommended material then?

Yes, plastic canvas AKA yarn canvas is what is recommended.

 

[BluScrnOdeth]

King Richard, I would switch your bulbs 6500k's to the 2,700k... they will not work well. I have tested even 5k's and that had much less growth then my 2,700K bulbs.

LEDs for scrubbers are still very early and I dont think anyone has quite got it right... at least not yet.

Also please post pictures of your tank, and post water testing results if you can. thanks

On my setup before i used the PC's. I used 6500k lights because i had them. They did pretty well.. Kept my levels at 0 but the algae didnt grow huge like some peoples. Mine only grew out by about an inch before it was cleaning time.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Just a note, I did some quick research on LEDs. The only LED scrubbers I have seen built in the past used red and blue LEDs. I had a discussion with TheFishMan65 about this and I think he is correct that failure of this design is due to improper LED use. Cree makes LEDs in the 2600-3200K wavelength. At the current rated output of around 75-96 lumens/watt for these LEDs (from what I can discern from their website at least) then for a 100 Gallon scrubber, similar to mine (which runs 4 x 24 W T5HO at a mean 1627 lumens per lamp, or 6500 total lumens) it would require between 80 and 90 LEDs. That's 40-45 per side.

So you're looking at a minimum of 2 DIY Driver boards, 2 500W power supplies, the LEDs, heat sinks, fans, acrylic sheilding (at a minimum), etc.

At this point, unless you've got $600-800 to blow on just the lighting system for an LED scrubber, I'd say its a no go. Plus, we're not even sure it will work the same as T5HO or CFL.

Someone has to be the guinea pig, but for now, it's not going to be me.

 

[srusso]

Floyd, hows the ciclid scrubber coming along?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Just an idea in my head right now. That's a 225 and heavily stocked. He does 50% PWC a week. nothing is going to happen really for at least 2 months on any of the non-scrubber tanks I maintain. (PE test)

 

[rysher]

best light spectrum to use is the 3000 kelvin.

 

[BluScrnOdeth]

Lumens are disceaving though. Plus Cree makes XPG LEDs that get 140 Lumens if thats what you are after. Each LED on a star platter is 3/4" wide/tall. The XPE is 500mW, what that converts to in Lumens i dont know. Though i dont know why you would need blue since thats only for getting deeper into water. The XPG 3000k LEDs are 103 Lumens each.

So if we want to go off of the Lumen aspect, a 23w 2700k CFL lasts 10k hrs and has a luemen of 1600. LEDs can last close to 100k hrs.

1600/103= 16 LEDs per bulb.
I use 3200 Lumen per side of my scrubber for my 300g tank.

64 LEDs. 12v PSU, and some U channel.

4 bulbs 7.97 (home depot), 4 clip on reflectors 44 (home depot)= $51.97
for 100k hours that would be (assuming your reflector lasts 100k hrs):
also assuming your electric is .115/kwh after taxes, etc.

CFL
318.8+44+(9200Kw*0.115)=$1420to operate for 100k hrs

LED
64*4.88= $312 for just the LEDs
$312 LED+$40 psu+$20 wiring and solder+$15 U channel+ (6144Kw*.115)=1093.56 for 100k hrs

Unless my math is off (in a hurry to get out of work), then they are really close in comparison. Where you save in energy you spend in equipment. Though, you are supposed to change your CFLs every 4 months rght? which would make the life span of each bulb down to 1440hrs.

7.97*4*69(bulbs over 100k hrs)+(9200Kw*0.115)=$3257 to operate for 100k hrs

 

[srusso]

Though, you are supposed to change your CFLs every 4 months rght? which would make the life span of each bulb down to 1440hrs.

Its every 3 months. I get my bulbs at homedepot 4 for $1...

 

[srusso]

rysher, any growth on your 3 day old scrubber? Would love to see some pics for your first few weeks of harvest!

 

[g8gxp]

Well i don't want to threadjack as LED for scrubbers is an entirely different subject. And one that already has a thread for it, but just a quick comment. Lumens is not a good way to measure LED efficacy. I have that many LED's on a 5 foot 120G MAIN tank and it's enough for SPS. If i turn them up past 50% output i will literally burn everything in the tank, because well, i have.

The reason LED's aren't good (at least not yet) for scrubbers is because the spectrums aren't accurate enough. Even specific lights within a spectrum range can vary widely depending on specific bins. Plus, even if you could get the color exactly right there's no way in hell it could beat the cost efficiency of a $2 CFL. Your right about the driver, heatsinks, wiring, optics and enclosure though. The complication just makes it more hassle than it's worth.

Just a note, I did some quick research on LEDs. The only LED scrubbers I have seen built in the past used red and blue LEDs. I had a discussion with TheFishMan65 about this and I think he is correct that failure of this design is due to improper LED use. Cree makes LEDs in the 2600-3200K wavelength. At the current rated output of around 75-96 lumens/watt for these LEDs (from what I can discern from their website at least) then for a 100 Gallon scrubber, similar to mine (which runs 4 x 24 W T5HO at a mean 1627 lumens per lamp, or 6500 total lumens) it would require between 80 and 90 LEDs. That's 40-45 per side.

So you're looking at a minimum of 2 DIY Driver boards, 2 500W power supplies, the LEDs, heat sinks, fans, acrylic sheilding (at a minimum), etc.

At this point, unless you've got $600-800 to blow on just the lighting system for an LED scrubber, I'd say its a no go. Plus, we're not even sure it will work the same as T5HO or CFL.

Someone has to be the guinea pig, but for now, it's not going to be me.

 

[CLINTOS]

Would 2 x t5 h.o light's be really good scrubbing for a 29G D.T and 10G in the sump?

Won't be a lot of fish but I will be feeding a lot of carpet anemones every few day's.

Maybe 2 small cubes every other day with 3 percula size fish and their feeding daily.

 

[srusso]

Would 2 x t5 h.o light's be really good scrubbing for a 29G D.T and 10G in the sump?

Won't be a lot of fish but I will be feeding a lot of carpet anemones every few day's.

Maybe 2 small cubes every other day with 3 percula size fish and their feeding daily.

What kind of T5's are they, size, watts... etc?
What size screen on the scrubber?

Kind of hard to help without knowing that...

 

[King_Richard]

API Test Kit
pH: 8.2
NO3: <5ppm
Calcium: 460
Amonia & NO2: 0 or undetectable

That's all the testing that I've done last week before water change and before the change to the new scrubber. This week I'm starting to change 5-10% water weekly due to new corals that are "rescue" attempts that have been added recently and since the scrubber is back at day 1. I need new mag and phos testers but that'll probally be a couple weeks before I pick any up.

I'll try out the 2700k or 3000k after 3 months unless I decide to be a guinea pig. I'm also working on getting tank pics but with the royal blue LED's running now, the camera's really sensitive to it and our pictures are coming out horrible, nothing close to what it looks like in person. My girlfriend is starting a photo class next semester so we may get an slr sometime soon, hopefully, and that should solve our blue issue but then we probally won't be able to afford being a guinea pig! Regardless, I'll keep working on the color correction and try to get a pic today/tomorrow.

 

[bucks448]

Its every 3 months. I get my bulbs at homedepot 4 for $1...

Do you work at HD? I haven't been able to find the spiral 23w 2700k cfl for under $7 a piece. Unless you're referring to a different bulb. Do you happen to have a link to them?

 

[srusso]

Yes, use 27k... very easy to find. At homedepot they have 4 23w bulbs in a pack for .97 cent!!!

they are ecosmart brand, stock up on them, you need to replace the bulbs every 3 months. They will still be working by the end if the 3 months but they will have lost most of their par value. I keep my used bulbs in a box to be used in lamps around the house, etc...

They are 23w bulbs that are labeled as 100w equivalent.

These bulbs are .97 cents.

Here is a link, stock up!

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

For some reason it has bad reviews but I have been running using these lights for 6+ months... without a single bulb blowing... and bet I use a bulb more in 3 months of use then they see in almost a year... 18hours a day...
I guess its a case of the people who are ****ed are going to be the only people posting reviews...lol

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Would 2 x t5 h.o light's be really good scrubbing for a 29G D.T and 10G in the sump?

If they are the 24" 24W T5HO 3000K lamps, yes. One on each side of a screen that would be 20" long or less and 3" tall would effectively be way more filtration capacity than needed. That would be if you bought a lamp/reflector kit, one for each side. If you went with a stock 2 lamp fixture and lit one side for simplicity of design, 20x5 / 2 = 50 gallon capacity.