Algae Scrubber Basics

[srusso]

I didn realize that was an official find. So what wavelength of blue was it? Guess it would only cost a couple bucks to make the adjustment and add the blues... +the three WEEKS shipping time from china...

Well I feel it's best to teach you to fish, so look up the requirements for photosynthesis and you will find the needs for chlorophyll A, and you will see that it's about 660nm (red) and for chlorophyll B to be about 445nm (blue)

Both are needed to complete photosynthesis...

Yeah the shipping from china thing sucks right? Lol!

 

[_shorty_]

Well I feel it's best to teach you to fish, so look up the requirements for photosynthesis and you will find the needs for chlorophyll A, and you will see that it's about 660nm (red) and for chlorophyll B to be about 445nm (blue)

Both are needed to complete photosynthesis...

Yeah the shipping from china thing sucks right? Lol!

Ok...thanks... That makes since... However- if you think about it, there's probably very little red in display tanks and those don't have problem growing the algae... Am I wrong about that? I will order some blues and record growth with red only add the blues in a month, then compare results a month later.

So... Does the slime algae require photosynthesis? Without proper environment for photosynthisis to occur, I'd assume maybe othher forms of algae might dominate over the green hair algae.

 

[srusso]

Ok...thanks... That makes since... However- if you think about it, there's probably very little red in display tanks and those don't have problem growing the algae... Am I wrong about that? I will order some blues and record growth with red only add the blues in a month, then compare results a month later.

So... Does the slime algae require photosynthesis? Without proper environment for photosynthisis to occur, I'd assume maybe othher forms of algae might dominate over the green hair algae.

Well, yes you are wrong about that. We are more concerned with filtering capacity then growth volume or even type for that matter.

We know that photosynthesis is the process that is required to uptake the nutrients we are attempting to remove.

The fact that a given tank grows algae in areas we don't like, with or without a volume that we view as a lot or a little has little to do with its filtering capacity. That is what we are concerned with and is by in large more important then anything else is the focus creating a highly effective photosynthesis filter.

For instance, you can have a tank full of algae, like I had... And still have plenty of nutrients available left in the water column.

Before



After

 

[srusso]

It should be said this tank has always and only has had an algae scrubber. That before and after is the difference between a surviving and thriving algae filtered tank.

 

[srusso]

Being that many people don't have time to read through the entire thread. Here is my current scrubber.

View attachment ImageUploadedByTapatalk1351829899.815230.jpg

 

[srusso]

 

[_shorty_]

Well, yes you are wrong about that. We are more concerned with filtering capacity then growth volume or even type for that matter.

We know that photosynthesis is the process that is required to uptake the nutrients we are attempting to remove.

The fact that a given tank grows algae in areas we don't like, with or without a volume that we view as a lot or a little has little to do with its filtering capacity. That is what we are concerned with and is by in large more important then anything else is the focus creating a highly effective photosynthesis filter.

For instance, you can have a tank full of algae, like I had... And still have plenty of nutrients available left in the water column.

Before
View attachment 209414


After
View attachment 209415

Love the contrast of the pics...

 

[srusso]

Yeah... That's my male clown... He will host almost anything. Here you can see him hosting my green stars...

 

[srusso]

Someone told me a picture is worth a thousand words... Here is 2000 for you...

Ok maybe 1,500 due to the light reflections!! Hahaha

 

[nanomania]

Being that many people don't have time to read through the entire thread. Here is my current scrubber.

View attachment 209418

Amazing..... liked your before and after pics..... this is what i was looking for... howmuch time did it take to clear? u using 6:1 red blue led? liked your sump setup... its more simple and basic.... we can use that space below the scrubber for frags or isolating agressive fish or keep NPS.......

 

[one clownfish]

It's been 2.5 months since I've been running my ATS. I'm still only getting about 1/2 cup of algae every week. Its not the GHA that were looking for, it comes off in sheets and not very dense. I can easily rinse it down the sink. I'm using red, blue, and violet LEDs for lighting. I don't think I'm sold on the "all red" LEDs being the best. I've been meaning to swap out some reds for NW or CW but I haven't had the time. I can grow thick GHA 30" deep in the DT in days with NW,CW and blue with no problem but I can't with the red 5" away. My flow is good, light is on 15hrs/day and the screen is roughed up really good. I tried lighting the back side of the screen with a 40watt cfl and it didn't change the weekly harvest to much. I want to swap 6-8 red for white and see what happens or should I try optics on the red 1st?

 

[srusso]

Amazing..... liked your before and after pics..... this is what i was looking for... howmuch time did it take to clear? u using 6:1 red blue led? liked your sump setup... its more simple and basic.... we can use that space below the scrubber for frags or isolating agressive fish or keep NPS.......

The battle with Bryopsis in my tank was about 9 months. Most of that time was spent trying different things, I am not 100% on how long or which change to the scrubber was the "nail in the coffin" and I am sure it was a combination of all the changes I made that fixed it.

I am running 5:1 - 660nm:445nm

My sump is as basic as it gets. What you see is everything.

 

[srusso]

It's been 2.5 months since I've been running my ATS. I'm still only getting about 1/2 cup of algae every week. Its not the GHA that were looking for, it comes off in sheets and not very dense. I can easily rinse it down the sink. I'm using red, blue, and violet LEDs for lighting. I don't think I'm sold on the "all red" LEDs being the best. I've been meaning to swap out some reds for NW or CW but I haven't had the time. I can grow thick GHA 30" deep in the DT in days with NW,CW and blue with no problem but I can't with the red 5" away. My flow is good, light is on 15hrs/day and the screen is roughed up really good. I tried lighting the back side of the screen with a 40watt cfl and it didn't change the weekly harvest to much. I want to swap 6-8 red for white and see what happens or should I try optics on the red 1st?

What are your tests reading? N and P...

 

[nanomania]

The battle with Bryopsis in my tank was about 9 months. Most of that time was spent trying different things, I am not 100% on how long or which change to the scrubber was the "nail in the coffin" and I am sure it was a combination of all the changes I made that fixed it.

I am running 5:1 - 660nm:445nm

My sump is as basic as it gets. What you see is everything.

Yup, i now think on howmuch space, money and time we can save upon... i hope as i build mine, i get the same success... i cant build before december as iv got some workload but i guess thats good as i can get much more info from u guys...

 

[silverwolf72]

Anyone try out the cheaper LED grow bulbs for a strait replacement for a CFL?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00520DNPM/ref=asc_df_B00520DNPM2242286?smid=A208V05KIR1ECG&tag=pgmp-895-97-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395109&creativeASIN=B00520DNPM

 

[_shorty_]

It's been 2.5 months since I've been running my ATS. I'm still only getting about 1/2 cup of algae every week. Its not the GHA that were looking for, it comes off in sheets and not very dense. I can easily rinse it down the sink. I'm using red, blue, and violet LEDs for lighting. I don't think I'm sold on the "all red" LEDs being the best. I've been meaning to swap out some reds for NW or CW but I haven't had the time. I can grow thick GHA 30" deep in the DT in days with NW,CW and blue with no problem but I can't with the red 5" away. My flow is good, light is on 15hrs/day and the screen is roughed up really good. I tried lighting the back side of the screen with a 40watt cfl and it didn't change the weekly harvest to much. I want to swap 6-8 red for white and see what happens or should I try optics on the red 1st?

Can't LEDs be a lot closer? more like 2" away? What total wattage of LEDs are you using and at what ratio?

Someone PLEASE correct me if I'm off here - but as I read srusso's post (thanks srusso, btw) in response to me a few back - What I'm pulling out from what he said is that we are almost talking about two different things when talking about lighting 1) algae growth rate. 2) photosynthesis - which is directly proportional to how efficiently that grown algae will 'scrub' the water.

The 5 or 6:1 ratio reds to blues are what people have found to be most effective at the photosynthesis part. But what about the actual production of the algae itself? I guess what I'm asking is: is the ideal environment for photosynthesis the same ideal environment for the growth of the algae itself? I would assume it is... but in instances like this some piece seems to be missing...

 

[srusso]

Can't LEDs be a lot closer? more like 2" away? What total wattage of LEDs are you using and at what ratio?

Someone PLEASE correct me if I'm off here - but as I read srusso's post (thanks srusso, btw) in response to me a few back - What I'm pulling out from what he said is that we are almost talking about two different things when talking about lighting 1) algae growth rate. 2) photosynthesis - which is directly proportional to how efficiently that grown algae will 'scrub' the water.

The 5 or 6:1 ratio reds to blues are what people have found to be most effective at the photosynthesis part. But what about the actual production of the algae itself? I guess what I'm asking is: is the ideal environment for photosynthesis the same ideal environment for the growth of the algae itself? I would assume it is... but in instances like this some piece seems to be missing...

In a sense they are one in the same. I was talking on the point that running red LEDs only can in turn "limit" production of photosynthesis by not providing the needed light spectrums for it to complete.

You see, I view the growth and volume of the algae as a "byproduct" of photosynthesis. One can only base the effectiveness of an algae scrubber by how well it's maintaining levels of N and P. If tests read zero then the algae scrubber is effective and it's output or volume is "normally" green, heathy and has a decent volume week to week.

Once you get a good idea of how much your tank grows on a normal weekly bases you can test less frequently and monitor production week to week. That's at least what I do and believe.

 

[_shorty_]

srusso, I guess that's where my thought process led me after reading your post... I understand what you're saying, but I still have questions. I think it's clear to me that I just need to start reading and doing some deeper research to answer some of the questions/thoughts I have... I think with better understanding of the biology behind it all, i might be able to answer some of my questions and be able to better organize and focus more detailed questions to the forum after... So - I'm off to go 'fishing' now...

Well I feel it's best to teach you to fish, so look up the requirements for photosynthesis and you will find the needs for chlorophyll A, and you will see that it's about 660nm (red) and for chlorophyll B to be about 445nm (blue)

Both are needed to complete photosynthesis...

Yeah the shipping from china thing sucks right? Lol!

 

[srusso]

srusso, I guess that's where my thought process led me after reading your post... I understand what you're saying, but I still have questions. I think it's clear to me that I just need to start reading and doing some deeper research to answer some of the questions/thoughts I have... I think with better understanding of the biology behind it all, i might be able to answer some of my questions and be able to better organize and focus more detailed questions to the forum after... So - I'm off to go 'fishing' now...

Additionally there is another school of thought we have just began to explore that shows we are actually harvesting far more bacteria then algae which is why I believe the algae scrubber is so highly effective. We are finding in many ways the algae and bacteria form a symbiotic relationship. Truly completing earths natural food chain or web.

The algae scrubber, as it turns out, is a haven for autotrophic and heterotrophic bacteria which allows these smallest of life forms to not only survive, but thrive well beyond what the traditional aquarium would naturally allow for...

I already know that this is the future of aquarium keeping. We are really just waiting for the rest of the world to catch up...

 

[_shorty_]

As i read about photsynthesis some, it made me wonder: Has anyone tried Dosing C02 directly to their scrubber?... Any run CO2 monitor to see what the levels typically are in a tank? I almost wonder if that isn't what limits A.S.s getting going and while the system is getting balanced out - when there's a lot of big growth in display eating up your carbon. Could potentially do that with an UAS - by enriching your air pump intake, maybe. You'd have to be very careful of course not to over do it... Could lower pH in the tank.