SantaMonica
Well-known member
Yes
Algae Scrubber Basics
- Thread starter srusso
- Start date
Wereami881
New member
Wow a lot more on here than I thought about this! I'm looking for a small self contained scrubber. Does anyone sell these?
SantaMonica
Well-known member
I could probably help with that 
SantaMonica
Well-known member
Push down harder on it.
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
What kind of trouble? Trouble could mean many things, but I'm guessing that you are snagging the screen and ripping it.
Watch this video. I don't use a hole saw at all, instead a really sharp saw blade. You want one with jagged pointy teeth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mrCWALt9Qs
But if you are using a hole saw, you don't want to push harder. That will just cause you to rip and tear at the screen. You just need to go at a steady pace and gentle pressure. The roughing up process takes time, so don't try to rush it and wear your arm out.
Watch this video. I don't use a hole saw at all, instead a really sharp saw blade. You want one with jagged pointy teeth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mrCWALt9Qs
But if you are using a hole saw, you don't want to push harder. That will just cause you to rip and tear at the screen. You just need to go at a steady pace and gentle pressure. The roughing up process takes time, so don't try to rush it and wear your arm out.
Coddigtion
New member
If you use a wood cutting blad from a sawzall it will work well in roughing it up.
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
Many types will work. Next time I'm at the HW store I will make a point to stop and look at saw blades and note the exact type of teeth you want.
The blade I show in that video is a wood saw, and part of a set that has a common handle for all blades. The teeth are very sharp, as in they come to a very fine point. If it's a sawsall blade, it might be made for cutting many different types of materials, but it should work. I think if you look back a bit in this thread you will see a post where someone used a blue Irwin blade.
Whether you use a saw blade or a hole saw, the method is to drag the teeth across the screen with a slight backwards angle, not a forward angle. You are dragging the blade across the screen, not pointing the teeth into the screen - this is what snags it.
This, IMO, is why the hole saw is more difficult to use, because of the round blade. If you use a sharp-tooth one, you snag the screen constantly. A duller tooth one will work better, but it takes much longer.
The blade I show in that video is a wood saw, and part of a set that has a common handle for all blades. The teeth are very sharp, as in they come to a very fine point. If it's a sawsall blade, it might be made for cutting many different types of materials, but it should work. I think if you look back a bit in this thread you will see a post where someone used a blue Irwin blade.
Whether you use a saw blade or a hole saw, the method is to drag the teeth across the screen with a slight backwards angle, not a forward angle. You are dragging the blade across the screen, not pointing the teeth into the screen - this is what snags it.
This, IMO, is why the hole saw is more difficult to use, because of the round blade. If you use a sharp-tooth one, you snag the screen constantly. A duller tooth one will work better, but it takes much longer.
igadget56
Member
ATS Tank
ATS Tank
I dose vinegar and run GFO. I thought I would give Brightwell XPORT-PO4
a try. What a mistake. I started with 15 cubes and worked my way up completely filling up my BRS reactor. I went from 0.04 to 0.14 in two weeks.
I had this old 5 gallon tank in my basement. I am going to make an ATS with it. I did my homework on this thread, you guys did an awesome job of teaching.
I would like to run my idea past you guys and have a couple of questions. The tank I have is 10.5" tall 16.0" long and 8" front to back. Look at my pics. I just have it sitting on a table. One end will be a union and the other end will be a cap. Questions.
1 With the screen hanging in the middle like it is in the pics, I have 4" on both sides. That should be the perfect distance for my lights from the screen. The screen in the pic is 6x9. I want 6x8 roughed up. My question is how long should I make the total screen and how deep should I keep the water level?
Center of bulkhead hole to bottom of tank? Or should I put the hole on the bottom and use a standoff pipe. That way I could put a T on for a little added safety.
2 Could someone give me an idea of what lights to use and the wattage.
3 How should I wean the system off of vinegar?
I will be running this off my return line to the sump. I have plenty of water flow,I will have to throttle it back somewhat. Please give me your honest opinions and if you have an idea that would work better please let me know.
http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p440/igadget56/2013-03-19143459_zpsab453ab0.jpg
http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p440/igadget56/2013-03-19143409_zps563eb4e4.jpg
http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p440/igadget56/2013-03-19143153_zpsd942ada4.jpg
Thanks Dave.
ATS Tank
I dose vinegar and run GFO. I thought I would give Brightwell XPORT-PO4
a try. What a mistake. I started with 15 cubes and worked my way up completely filling up my BRS reactor. I went from 0.04 to 0.14 in two weeks.
I had this old 5 gallon tank in my basement. I am going to make an ATS with it. I did my homework on this thread, you guys did an awesome job of teaching.
I would like to run my idea past you guys and have a couple of questions. The tank I have is 10.5" tall 16.0" long and 8" front to back. Look at my pics. I just have it sitting on a table. One end will be a union and the other end will be a cap. Questions.
1 With the screen hanging in the middle like it is in the pics, I have 4" on both sides. That should be the perfect distance for my lights from the screen. The screen in the pic is 6x9. I want 6x8 roughed up. My question is how long should I make the total screen and how deep should I keep the water level?
Center of bulkhead hole to bottom of tank? Or should I put the hole on the bottom and use a standoff pipe. That way I could put a T on for a little added safety.
2 Could someone give me an idea of what lights to use and the wattage.
3 How should I wean the system off of vinegar?
I will be running this off my return line to the sump. I have plenty of water flow,I will have to throttle it back somewhat. Please give me your honest opinions and if you have an idea that would work better please let me know.
http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p440/igadget56/2013-03-19143459_zpsab453ab0.jpg
http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p440/igadget56/2013-03-19143409_zps563eb4e4.jpg
http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p440/igadget56/2013-03-19143153_zpsd942ada4.jpg
Thanks Dave.
SkyReef
New member
Hi, IGadget. I think you are asking whether the ATS screen should run from the slot-pipe, from which water flows, all the way down to the water. If that is your question, I think the answer will be based on three (3) considerations:
(1) where are you putting the lights? It seems that you are saying outside the tank, which you seem to describe as 4 inches away. If this is correct, then okay. However, if you intend to put the lights inside the tank, you will find that you cannot lower the ATS screen too low because the light must aim at the center of your screen. Depending on how high the water is in the sump you have pictured, the light bulb would either be in the water, or perilously close.
(2) are you leaving enough room for your sump to capture backflow from the tank, if your pump shuts off? This will, in part, dictate how low you can run the lights above the water line, and how high you can operate the water-level under normal, non-pump-shut-off/backflow conditions. If the water line could rise in the event a pump fails or is shut off, you want to keep your bulbs clear out of the water. Take a look at the pictures on the previous page of my ATS setup, e.g. at Post No. 4811. I leave the 10-gallon sump about half full, to leave ample "flood-range headroom," if the pump shuts off. I would love to have lowered the screen closer to the water line, but I needed to reserve ample space for the water to rise, to capture the backflow, if the pump failed or the power to the pump were shut off. Thus, you can see how high I placed my bulbs--near the very top of the sump. I tested the pump-shut-off, and the water does not come near the level of the bulbs.
(3) there is some discussion in this thread about allowing the water to flow down a screen that touches the waterline, to reduce splashing. The portion below the roughed-up area may be able to get you there.
You will see this information, as modified beginning on page 131 of this thread. The new calculations are based on how much food you introduce into your system daily. All the information you need is there. You can use Compact Florescent Lights ("CFL"), T5s, and a new trend seems to be to use LEDs, but the information is in the thread. The system changed over time, so make sure you catch those changes mid-thread, beginning on page 131. The old system was based on the size of a tank; the new system is based on the amount you feed your tank daily. For example, my system (pictured in the previous page) is based on a 1-cube-per-day feeding. I use a 13-watt CFL Bulb, placed about 3 inches from the ATS on each side (hence, I use two 13-watt, CFL bulbs in total), running it for 16 hours each day. My ATS system is now about two weeks old, and only time will tell if I am successful.
BTW, you could insert your pictures directly into this thread, if you clicked on the picture button (looks like a mountain and a moon), rather than using the insert-hyperlink button. (Please disregard this if you already know this, but prefer to use links.
) Just click on the "direct code" in PhotoBucket.com relating to your picture, it will instantly copy it to your clipboard. Then, just paste the clipboard contents into the pop-up prompt that arises after you click on the insert-picture command (hit control + v as a shortcut, to paste the clipboard contents if using a windows-based platform). I have converted your links to pictures here, to demonstrate how much better your posting looks when the pictures are directly observable. The difference in HTML code here is, rather than bookend the PhotoBucket address with "URL" in brackets, you bookend it with "IMG" in the brackets. Good luck!
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igadget56
Member
1. Yes I will be putting the lights on the outside.
2. From your reply I guess I was a little vague. I have a 40 gallon sump on the floor. My return goes into a 10 gallon tank that is a couple inches lower than the DT, then drains into the sump. The reason I have the 10 gallon tank is that is where I have my pump and my drain for the waste water for my AWC. I am going to swap out the 10 for the 5 and use that for my ATS.
Here is a diagram of my system.
Thank you, let's see if it works.
Yes that is where I started on page 131. I feed three cubes a day, so I am going to go 6x8 roughed up with an extra inch to reach the water. So if I am right I only need enough water in the ATS to cover that extra inch. I am going to put the drain of the ATS on the bottom right through the table. 4" hole saw. I once had a Turbo snail get into my overflow box and block the tube, yup overflowing DT. I now have a Digital Aquatics RKE with a float switch in the DT. To answer your question, if my return pump fails there is enough room in the sump. I drilled two small holes in the inlet tube just below the water level to stop the siphon even without the holes I have enough room in the sump, not to overflow.
Almost forgot. What lights would work better for a 6x8 screen 4" away? The floodlight style or the curly type with the round aluminum reflectors? How should I ween the system off of vinegar?
Do you think this will work? I hope it does, I took it all apart already.
2. From your reply I guess I was a little vague. I have a 40 gallon sump on the floor. My return goes into a 10 gallon tank that is a couple inches lower than the DT, then drains into the sump. The reason I have the 10 gallon tank is that is where I have my pump and my drain for the waste water for my AWC. I am going to swap out the 10 for the 5 and use that for my ATS.
Here is a diagram of my system.
Thank you, let's see if it works.
Yes that is where I started on page 131. I feed three cubes a day, so I am going to go 6x8 roughed up with an extra inch to reach the water. So if I am right I only need enough water in the ATS to cover that extra inch. I am going to put the drain of the ATS on the bottom right through the table. 4" hole saw. I once had a Turbo snail get into my overflow box and block the tube, yup overflowing DT. I now have a Digital Aquatics RKE with a float switch in the DT. To answer your question, if my return pump fails there is enough room in the sump. I drilled two small holes in the inlet tube just below the water level to stop the siphon even without the holes I have enough room in the sump, not to overflow.
Almost forgot. What lights would work better for a 6x8 screen 4" away? The floodlight style or the curly type with the round aluminum reflectors? How should I ween the system off of vinegar?
Do you think this will work? I hope it does, I took it all apart already.
JohnnyB in SD
New member
Supplying from overflow of DT is good idea.
I would use curly style sidemounted with reflectors, but 4" from screen is too far for CFLs IME, you'll have a difficult time getting past weak slime. I run mine about 2".
You might consider mounting the screen higher/above the tank (see post 4785 & 90) so you can get the lights closer. Bottom 1" of screen needs to be submerged or you will get splashing & noise if that's an issue for you.
Two drains in bottom of tank Herbie style is what I would do, one siphon the other open channel/durso to control slurping & other drain noise. Being able to adjust drainpipe height will also help you get water level to where it needs to be in relation to screen. Is bottom tempered, can you drill it?
I wouldn't be looking for some magic bullet to lower 0.04 Phosphate. I run a little GFO, my ATS apparently uses up the nitrates before the phosphate.
Never used vinegar so can't comment, but I recall others here who have. Hopefully they'll see your inquiry & chime in with their specific experience. I would guess you should wean it off as ATS starts up, vinegar will starve it for the nitrates? Just keep an eye on the ATS screen & your DT, use judgment.
Good luck. Overall you are on the right path.
I would use curly style sidemounted with reflectors, but 4" from screen is too far for CFLs IME, you'll have a difficult time getting past weak slime. I run mine about 2".
You might consider mounting the screen higher/above the tank (see post 4785 & 90) so you can get the lights closer. Bottom 1" of screen needs to be submerged or you will get splashing & noise if that's an issue for you.
Two drains in bottom of tank Herbie style is what I would do, one siphon the other open channel/durso to control slurping & other drain noise. Being able to adjust drainpipe height will also help you get water level to where it needs to be in relation to screen. Is bottom tempered, can you drill it?
I wouldn't be looking for some magic bullet to lower 0.04 Phosphate. I run a little GFO, my ATS apparently uses up the nitrates before the phosphate.
Never used vinegar so can't comment, but I recall others here who have. Hopefully they'll see your inquiry & chime in with their specific experience. I would guess you should wean it off as ATS starts up, vinegar will starve it for the nitrates? Just keep an eye on the ATS screen & your DT, use judgment.
Good luck. Overall you are on the right path.
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igadget56
Member
That's the reason why I am switching the 10 to the 5. It's 8" wide. I thought maybe I could find some lights that would work 4"s from the screen. I don't want the screen above the tank. Even if I did I couldn't do it. If I go high enough for that to work the slotted pipe would be higher than the overflow box. I don't think it would drain. I see a lot of LED's on eBay that look like they would work. I don't care if they cost a little more, I wouldn't have to change them every three months. Any suggestions? I could make my own but I wouldn't know where to start. Thanks for your suggestions, it is appreciated!
Almost forgot. I figured I would still need to use GFO.
Almost forgot. I figured I would still need to use GFO.
gmneil
New member
A couple questions.
I am interested in adding an ats to a clownfish breeding growout system that has had a high nitrate problem.
The system is 4 75 gallons plumbed together with a 9og sum along with a 90 gallon fuge.
The fish are fed multiple times a day, a varitey of pellets, flakes and frozen food of all kinds.
What sixe screen would you suggest i use. I do plan on somehow setting this all up into a 10g tank painted on all sides to block light spillage, and to use some led strips i have laying around.
I also plan on using 1" pvc pipes and a small pump coming from the fuge..
Any tips will be great as the nitrates are over 200 tested with the color changing strips weekly!
Also will this help with ph as the ph in this system is constantly low coming in at 7.o and possibly even lower.
Again any help and tips will be great as this is my first attempt at an ats!!
I am interested in adding an ats to a clownfish breeding growout system that has had a high nitrate problem.
The system is 4 75 gallons plumbed together with a 9og sum along with a 90 gallon fuge.
The fish are fed multiple times a day, a varitey of pellets, flakes and frozen food of all kinds.
What sixe screen would you suggest i use. I do plan on somehow setting this all up into a 10g tank painted on all sides to block light spillage, and to use some led strips i have laying around.
I also plan on using 1" pvc pipes and a small pump coming from the fuge..
Any tips will be great as the nitrates are over 200 tested with the color changing strips weekly!
Also will this help with ph as the ph in this system is constantly low coming in at 7.o and possibly even lower.
Again any help and tips will be great as this is my first attempt at an ats!!
igadget56
Member
Would something like these work.
http://www.westinghouselighting.com/pdfs/products/3680400_spec.pdf
I see these halogens up to 150 Watts. This is the only one I could find that had the kelvin in the specs. Why is that?
http://www.westinghouselighting.com/pdfs/products/3680400_spec.pdf
I see these halogens up to 150 Watts. This is the only one I could find that had the kelvin in the specs. Why is that?
Lavoisier
Premium Member
Floyd, did you ever hear back from the experimental design you shared with us in post 3385? http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=20015421&postcount=3385
If so, any drawbacks? I'll be joining the ATS club in my new build.
If so, any drawbacks? I'll be joining the ATS club in my new build.
SkyReef
New member
SkyReef's ATS After 14 Days in Operation: Algae Is Growing In Much Thicker
SkyReef's ATS After 14 Days in Operation: Algae Is Growing In Much Thicker
Okay, everyone, here are some pictures of my Algae Turf Scrubber ("ATS"), positioned above the sump that lies below my 14-gallon BioCube. The ATS has been in operation for 2 weeks exactly. The algae is growing in a thicker now. The color is slightly more olive. I welcome your comments and advice.
Thank you.
A. ATS Specs:
1. Feeding: 1 cube per day;
2. Dual-Sided ATS Screen: 5" x 3" ATS (roughed-up area);
3. ATS Plumbing: 3/4" PVC Pipe with cut water-slot (table-sawed and hand-filed);
4. Water Flow over ATS Screen: 180 gals. per hour; and
5. Light: two, 13-watt CFL bulbs (2700k), positioned ~ 3" away from screen, shining on each side of the screen for 18 hours per day, on a timer switch (6 p.m. to 12:00 noon). This lighting is considered to be "high intensity," and I am exceeding the recommended, daily, exposure period of 9 hours by running these lights for 18 hours each day, to get the screen "up and running." Perhaps this prolonged exposure period is causing my screen color to come in brown, and not green.
B. Water-Quality Specs:
Not available.
C. Pictures of ATS after 14 days in operation:
Note: the algae depicted here is only one week's growth, not two. Please recall that I cleaned off the ATS screen (with my fingers under running water) last week, after 7 days' growth.
1. Wide Shot: ATS over Screen with Splash Guards:
2. Close-Up Shots: Right and Left Side of ATS, with Splash Guards Removed:
3. Close-Up Shot: ATS Screen Removed, Prior to Cleaning:
4. Close-Up Shot: Sump beneath the ATS Screen: This shows diatoms and algae growth on the glass. What to do with this? Clean it off? All advice welcome.
SkyReef's ATS After 14 Days in Operation: Algae Is Growing In Much Thicker
Okay, everyone, here are some pictures of my Algae Turf Scrubber ("ATS"), positioned above the sump that lies below my 14-gallon BioCube. The ATS has been in operation for 2 weeks exactly. The algae is growing in a thicker now. The color is slightly more olive. I welcome your comments and advice.
Thank you.
A. ATS Specs:
1. Feeding: 1 cube per day;
2. Dual-Sided ATS Screen: 5" x 3" ATS (roughed-up area);
3. ATS Plumbing: 3/4" PVC Pipe with cut water-slot (table-sawed and hand-filed);
4. Water Flow over ATS Screen: 180 gals. per hour; and
5. Light: two, 13-watt CFL bulbs (2700k), positioned ~ 3" away from screen, shining on each side of the screen for 18 hours per day, on a timer switch (6 p.m. to 12:00 noon). This lighting is considered to be "high intensity," and I am exceeding the recommended, daily, exposure period of 9 hours by running these lights for 18 hours each day, to get the screen "up and running." Perhaps this prolonged exposure period is causing my screen color to come in brown, and not green.
B. Water-Quality Specs:
Not available.
C. Pictures of ATS after 14 days in operation:
Note: the algae depicted here is only one week's growth, not two. Please recall that I cleaned off the ATS screen (with my fingers under running water) last week, after 7 days' growth.
1. Wide Shot: ATS over Screen with Splash Guards:
2. Close-Up Shots: Right and Left Side of ATS, with Splash Guards Removed:
3. Close-Up Shot: ATS Screen Removed, Prior to Cleaning:
4. Close-Up Shot: Sump beneath the ATS Screen: This shows diatoms and algae growth on the glass. What to do with this? Clean it off? All advice welcome.
JohnnyB in SD
New member
I understand your limitations.
LED's are best choice. CFL's may get you started if you use real good reflectors, but in the long run they just won't be powerful enough.
I employ 2 scrubbers on my tanks, the older CFL unit & a newer LED. The LED is FAR more effective at growing strong green algae, as soon as I can upgrade the CFL....
You may find something off the shelf for size you need, but it's not difficult to build your own if you can solder: HeatsinkUSA, StevesLEDS, I like the Inventronics drivers - reefledlights.
For reference, I have 23 LED's per side @ 3w probably running at >80%, spaced approx 2.25" on center & mounted about 2" from a 8"x16" screen.
At 4" you might consider designing something with 1.5 or 2x the emitter density.
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