Alk driving me crazy

cec09

New member
I have 25 cube-30 total gallons. I recently bought two brs 1.1 ml dosers. When I set them up originally everything was fine. Took a bit to get my consumption rate but once i did it stayed fairly stable. I dose 4 times a day every 6 hrs for 10 min. I keep it around 10 dkh. Thats 44 ml. About a week ago I checked and the alk was at 7 dkh. I dosed to get it back up thinking my doser wasnt working. Cleaned and verified that it was working. Next day 6.4 dkh. No matter what I do my alk drops like a rock within 24 hrs. I can dose it up to correct levels and verify with two separate tests but it always plummets within 24 hrs. Even with th 44 ml that I dose throughout the day. I only keep zoas and rics and gorgonians so no sps or even lps. I just dont understand.
Thanks
John
 
forgot to add that Ca is between 380 - 440 with dosing and Mg is dosed once per week. 1400 -1380
 
How ofter are you doing WC's? It doesn't appear that you have any real demand for what you're dosing in the first place. It sounds like it might be precipitating out. Are you dosing both Ca and Alk at the same time?
 
I do use kent and it mixes low but thats not the issue. I will dose it up to where it needs to be and even though I am dosing throught the day it will be 6.5-7 by the next day. I stopped all dosing and am topping off with just ro for a couple days. Then I will start over and see what happens.
 
Many tanks consume 2-3 dKH per day, even with no stony corals in the system. I suspect that you just need to dose more. The tank's consumption rate might have changed dramatically.
 
Well I stopped dosing for 2 days. My alk dropped to 6.1 and kinda leveled off. Ca was 390. Mg 1360. I dosed to get back up to the numbers I wanted to stay at. Alk was 10.1. Ca was 440, Mg was 1440. I dosed this throughout the day. After I was at the numbers I started testing again. After 2.5 hrs my alk had dropped to 7.1. I have no idea what is happening. I can see 3 dkh in a day but not in 2.5 hrs.
 
I agree that a consumption rate of 3 dKH in a few hours is highly suspect, as you stated. What exactly are you dosing? I might try using baking soda for a few days. Baking soda is less likely to cause precipitation, which is about the only way I can see the alkalinity level changing that much in that time period.
 
some "Stupid" things to try....
you got the outputs near each other? (just askin he he he)
what is your makeup water? RO or RO/kalk ?
can you verify the dosing is "equal"? (I got my 2pt containers next to each other, they are opaque so I can tell if theey are being consumed at the same rate)

...again, I'm no expert here; just someone who screws up a lot....
 
I had not been dosing equal parts because the consumption is different. I do have the outputs near each other but they dose 2 hrs apart. My top off is RO/di. I have just thought of something else. I had just added GFO around the time this stuff started happening. I may have more than needed for my tank. I turned off GFO and carbon reactors and am going to dose it back up today and see what happens.
 
I would think it's precipitating as well. But don't know enough to suggest why it would be happening.

Do you have a lot of any type algae (fuge or scrubber or excessive hair algae) in your system? Most likely not the full cause but could be a contributor: Photosynthesis of algae absorbs carbon - and if there's not much CO2 in the water it'll pull it out of the bicarbonates lowering alkalenity.

edit: In addition - aren't some corals actually photosynthetic? isn't that an indirect thing usually due to (?sp)zoozenthella, or whatever? That might be why softy/zoa systems eat up Alk? I'm totally guessing there, obviously... Could set up a cheap DIY yeast carbon reactor and see if that helps reduce your consumption rate - assuming you don't figure out the precipitation thing soon.
 
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There are two main factors that can reduce the alkalinity ( or reserve buffer substances):
1) The nitrification of food and organic waste.
2) Precipitation of carbonates by filtration materials of limestone origin (Cal).
The first process, the nitrification of food and organic waste is the main work of the biological filter. Food is processed through the fish in the aquarium. producing toxic ammonia, which is optionally reduced by the filter in relatively non-toxic nitrate. The side effect of this necessary process results in the production of acid. This acid reacts with the bicarbonate ions to eliminating them progressively. Thus the rate of alkalinity (or reserve buffer substances, commonly known as the buffering capacity) is slowly degraded and the pH drops.
The second process is related to the type of substrate used for filtration. Materials like crushed coral rocks, the dolomitic limestone (dolomite) and crushed oyster shells, especially when new, tend to attract calcium carbonate (calcite) to their surfaces. As a result they are able to remove it from the water by precipitation. The speed of this process depends on the type of material, age, and certainly of their origin.
Because of highly active materials, such as some coral ground, the alkalinity can drop by 50% in four days or less, with the resulting drop in pH. The effect diminishes over time as the contact surfaces of the substrate are covered with crystals and organic sludge. If thereafter the buffer substances are replaced, or by a change of water, or by addition of buffer substances, the alkalinity will return more stable. In the meantime there will be a significant drop in pH, even with little or no fish present.

Hope this is clear and sorry for my english, I'm French ;)
 
^^ You forgot the number one factor that reduces alkalinity, coral growth. Neither of the processes you described should significantly impact alkalinity levels on a daily basis. The first one in particular is a good reason to occasionally check the Alk on FOWLR tanks.
 
It's true that nitrification consumes a bit of alkalinity. The denitrification process returns it, though, so unless you're doing a lot of water changes in a tank with a high nitrate level, the net effect is zero.

Calcium carbonate can encourage the precipitation of more calcium carbonate, but that process doesn't seem to affect tanks very much. Such precipitation would occur only on crushed or other manufactured surfaces, and the amount typically is very small.
 
I still cant figure this out. I pulled the GFO and thought it helped but starting at 10 dkh dropped to 7.4 even with dosing 15 ml in 6 hrs. What could be sucking the alk out of this tank?
 
Is coraline starting to grow? When my walls first started to get coraline I was going through alk faster. Not this fast but still faster than normal.
 
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