All fish DEAD! Why?!

[Rae C.]

Last night, I fed the fish, they were happy and healthy. I had let the HOB fuge stop running for two days because I hadn't made quite enough ASW to fill the tank. Took that long to adjust the salinity to the right level.

Before i went to bed, I topped the tank with ASW and turned on the fuge. Woke up this morning to dead fish. The clean-up crew isn't even touching them. Snails and hermits are moving around. Urchin looks dead.

All the corals look fine.

.Here's this mornings paramaters

78.5 F (It's low for the overnight, but quite part of the normal swing between 77 and 81, been doing that for 2 years and 13 days)

1.025 Salinity

Ammonia 0
nitrate 0
nitrite 0
phosphates 0 (I think. The color of the final tube looks more yellow than anything onthe color card)
calcium 440
ph 7.8
carbonate 89.5

Here are the parameters from Tuesday 7/7
temp 81.4
salinity 1.026
ammonia 0
nitrate 0
nitrite 0
phospate 0
calcium 460
carbonate 71.6


What happened? What else should I measure for? The corals seem okay, is that just a temporary thing? I'm trying to remain scientific about it, but could get emotional soon

 

[snorvich]

What are you measuring salinity with? Refractometer (recommended) or hydrometer (NOT recommended). It may be that your HOB refugium had a problem with not having flow?

 

[Rae C.]

I'm suspecting the HOB. I am using a hydrometer. i figure as long as the new water matches the tank water or a tad lower and both measurements are within 1.024 and 1.026 then there will be no drastic change.

It baffles me that the corals seem to be fine, but the fish died. i thought the corals were much more sensitive to the chemistry of the water.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Corals and fish are sensitive in different ways. Fish have much faster metabolisms (i.e. the burn more energy/oxygen per unit of time per unit of biomass).

What was the condition of your HOB 'fuge for the two days it was offline? Did it have water in it? Plants? Mud? Anything else? Was it literally sitting 100% stagnant?

I'm sure you've done this already, but I would think carefully though your water change procedure too - did you use the same equipment as always? Treat or filter the source water the same? Use the same brand salt mix? Additives? etc.?

 

[Rae C.]

water change procedure was the same as always. Same salt, same pump, same same

The fuge had all its normal inhabitants (algae, sand, pods and worms) It had water, but no heat or circulation for two days.

RODI was used, TDI still measures 0 at output.

It was the fuge I'm sure, I just don't know what else to test for to prevent losing the corals.

 

[WhoDey64]

Sorry to read about this Rae C. I enjoyed reading your build log and know that this is probably a sad day for your household.

Did the life in the fuge (pods ect) seem active and heathly before you restarted it? Perhaps the PH had bottomed out in the fuge and when you restarted the system it could have caused a temporary fatal drop in PH when the two systems water mixed. Your PH of 7.8 is fairly typical of a system with no fuge if taken right before lights on, but who knows how far it may have dropped overnight.

This is all just a guess, but I hope somebody helps you figure this one out

 

[Rae C.]

Y'know, I didn't even check for life in the fuge when I Turned it back on. I had just returned from a long day trip and it was late. I turned it on while adding new salt water to the main tank, then went to bed. The algae (caulerpa) looks good and healthy. I don't see any pods right now, I'll have to get in there and look more carefully.

 

[Aquarist007]

My heart goes out to you Rae

With your parameter okay I am making a stab at chemical poisons. It might have been the urchin dying or a fight between the urchin and one or more of your corals.
Poisons or toxins are really hard to detect.
At any rate running carbon in a reactor 24/7 and changing it out every 2-3 weeks is somewhat of an insurance for that.

If you haven't done so already I would take steps to preserve the inverts and corals:
(assuming you have removed the fish
50 per cent water change
run fresh carbon--change it out in 2 days
rinse out the protein skimmer cup and crank it up so it is producing really wet dilute skimmate

Good luck I hope you can save the rest of your tank.

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15349976#post15349976 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
My heart goes out to you Rae

With your parameter okay I am making a stab at chemical poisons. It might have been the urchin dying or a fight between the urchin and one or more of your corals.
Poisons or toxins are really hard to detect.
At any rate running carbon in a reactor 24/7 and changing it out every 2-3 weeks is somewhat of an insurance for that.

If you haven't done so already I would take steps to preserve the inverts and corals:
(assuming you have removed the fish
50 per cent water change
run fresh carbon--change it out in 2 days
rinse out the protein skimmer cup and crank it up so it is producing really wet dilute skimmate

Good luck I hope you can save the rest of your tank.

BTW
how many and what kind of fish died?

 

[raen]

OMgosh Rae. This is the PITTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am SO sorry about it! I hope you are able to find the problem. When that happened to me, it was flow. I luckily caught it in time, but, it was a long slow recovery.

 

[raen]

OMgosh Rae. This is the PITTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am SO sorry about it! I hope you are able to find the problem. When that happened to me, it was flow. I luckily caught it in time, but, it was a long slow recovery.

 

[sedor]

I'm going to guess it was some sort of poison from the coral. Something drastic enough to take out an entire tank of fish in one night should have taken the coral out as well, unless its something coral can handle. It will probably always be a mystery. I guess you can look at the bright side, you still have your coral. A couple large water changes are in order.

 

[Aquarist007]

Here is another possibility for just taking out the fish and nothing else:

"I'd say it could be stray current too....I had a simular problem...I bought a new light that kept making a humming sound....I had 2 fish that were fine in this tank until I added the light...Within 3 days both fish died, but the coral and snails were fine...as was the water quality....I changed some of the water, and added 2 more fish..same thing happend....heavy breathing, hanging near the top of the tank....they died within days...i got rid of that light, added a new one, and have not had any problems at all since.......so check your tank fro stray electic current.... "

from another reef site

 

[Rae C.]

I've been able to retrieve the two clowns and one gramma. I can see the mandarine, but it's in a cave in the middle of all the rocks. I'm afraid dismantling the rocks to get to the fish would be more stressful on the corals than leaving the fish.

Can't find the cardinal or the other gramma.

The urchin is fine. I thought it was toast too, then grabbed at it with my "grabbers" and it was a bit ticked at me.

I've cleaned out the skimmer cup. Should I pull the whole skimmer and clean it, or leave it running wet? I don't have a carbon filter. I have carbon in a fiber packet for the fresh water tank. If I put a clean one in the fuge, will it work the same?

I've already laid out $100 for the QT for the tang. I'm taking it back today to the LFS and asking them to run tests on the water as well. Maybe it'll get me credit toward a canister?

The Clowns were 2.9" and 1.85". The gramma was 2.1". Just taking whatever data I can. Trying to stay scientific.

The kids were dropped at camp for the week yesterday. They're gonna be devastated.

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15350084#post15350084 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rae C.
I've been able to retrieve the two clowns and one gramma. I can see the mandarine, but it's in a cave in the middle of all the rocks. I'm afraid dismantling the rocks to get to the fish would be more stressful on the corals than leaving the fish.

Can't find the cardinal or the other gramma.

The urchin is fine. I thought it was toast too, then grabbed at it with my "grabbers" and it was a bit ticked at me.

I've cleaned out the skimmer cup. Should I pull the whole skimmer and clean it, or leave it running wet? I don't have a carbon filter. I have carbon in a fiber packet for the fresh water tank. If I put a clean one in the fuge, will it work the same?

I've already laid out $100 for the QT for the tang. I'm taking it back today to the LFS and asking them to run tests on the water as well. Maybe it'll get me credit toward a canister?

The Clowns were 2.9" and 1.85". The gramma was 2.1". Just taking whatever data I can. Trying to stay scientific.

The kids were dropped at camp for the week yesterday. They're gonna be devastated.

Just clean the skimmer cup and then set up the skimmer so the bubble column is coming up farther in the neck---alot of reefers do water changes this way--but you will have to drain the cup more often.

You can run the carbon like you stated for now.

The key is the immediate water change Rae

I would not buy a cannister filter to run carbon--rather the phosban reactors from Two Little Fishes---they are about 35 dollars.

Why did you spend 100 bucks on a qt----the bucket you had would have done fine?

I am still not clear on how many fish you had and how many died

 

[Rae C.]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15349923#post15349923 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WhoDey64
Sorry to read about this Rae C. I enjoyed reading your build log and know that this is probably a sad day for your household.

Did the life in the fuge (pods ect) seem active and heathly before you restarted it? Perhaps the PH had bottomed out in the fuge and when you restarted the system it could have caused a temporary fatal drop in PH when the two systems water mixed. Your PH of 7.8 is fairly typical of a system with no fuge if taken right before lights on, but who knows how far it may have dropped overnight.

THe LFS just opened and I think my phone call was the first they got. The guy there thinks it was a pH dip as well. He's not sure they can test for anything I haven't already tested for, but I'm going to take some water in anyway. He also said they don't really take fish back, but he'll let me bring the QT'd tang back for credit.

 

[mullinsd2]

I am sorry to hear about your situation, and I hope things turn around for you in the near future.

 

[cdness]

Saltwater when sitting stagnant for a good amount of time will die. The fuge with no air, heat, or movement turned into a fuge of dead water. You should have tried to drain all the water out of the fuge if it sat that long to avoid getting the dead water back into the tank.

Sorry for the losses... hopefully the corals pull through.

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15350213#post15350213 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cdness
Saltwater when sitting stagnant for a good amount of time will die. The fuge with no air, heat, or movement turned into a fuge of dead water. You should have tried to drain all the water out of the fuge if it sat that long to avoid getting the dead water back into the tank.

Sorry for the losses... hopefully the corals pull through.

I agree with you but the puzzling thing about that is that the small inverts and corals were not affected.

 

[Rae C.]

So the total fish count is six small ones.

The urchin is alive and well.

Cap'n, I spent money on a 20gL for the tang so the kids could see it and I could observe it better. The bucket was hard for observing. The tank itself wasn't that bad, it was adding another heater, and hob filter, a screen so he wouldn't jump out, copper for just in case, veggie food, and I included the price of the tang itself since it was an impulse purchase.

Like we've mentioned, the weird thing is the corals are fine, the tiny little feather dusters are fine, the nudibranch is fine.

The monti looks bad, but I think it's just because it's morning and the water is on the cold part if its cycle, so really it looks normal for this time of day I'm giving that another hour before I declare its health.

Off to the LFS. We'll see if my test kits are way off or if it was something else.