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Crystal Sea Bio Assay salt killed your clams and I am sorry for your loss. You had some of the nicest clams.
All my clams not doing well
- Thread starter Flame*Angel
- Start date
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www.sjwilson.net/reef click on today's journal entry and read. She explains more there.
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"Today the black and green clam was gaping a little. After a few emails I took the advice of an experienced friend and decided to try fresh water dipping all the clams. This is a treatment I also read about many times on Reef Central when people had clams with a disease. I filled up my plastic baby bathtub with RO/DI water, added a heater and adjusted the pH so that it matched the tank. Then I sat the three remaining clams in it for 15 minutes. Neither seemed overly upset about being in the fresh water. The idea is that hopefully this would kill any bacteria or other microscopic organisms that are causing the trouble. The new crocea bounced back pretty quickly. The small gold maxima which hasn't been sick is gaping a bit right now but not too seriously. The big black and green maxima I've been worried about looks pretty much the same. It will be interesting to see how it goes tomorrow.
I also learned about a product called BioPlankton by Liquid Life. It's a very concentrated concoction of three different types of phytoplankton that you keep in your freezer. Rob Toonen, a highly regarded expert, apparently did some tests and found that the stuff is better for clams than cultured nannochloropsis.
It sounds almost too good to be true. I'm going to give it a try."
I also learned about a product called BioPlankton by Liquid Life. It's a very concentrated concoction of three different types of phytoplankton that you keep in your freezer. Rob Toonen, a highly regarded expert, apparently did some tests and found that the stuff is better for clams than cultured nannochloropsis.
It sounds almost too good to be true. I'm going to give it a try."
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Sorry that was taken from Flame*Angels site. She wrote that.
Flame*Angel
Premium Member
Thanks Tony. This summer has been insane with work and I haven't been able to get on RC as much as I'd like.
Yup, I did the freshwater dip of the 3 remaining clams yesterday suppertime - RO/DI water, matched temperature and pH. None reacted badly in the fresh water. They all stayed closed for a few hours after going back in the tank. The newest crocea was the first to bounce back. Late last night they all looked so badly I was worried that at least one would be dead by this morning but as of now I have more hope. The black and green maxima seems to be reattaching itself too. Time will tell.
Looking back now I'm not as sure it was the salt. According to my friend who is a wholesaler of clams and who has helped set up clam farms, it's more likely the last clam I brought in was a carrier of a disease that didn't affect him. It's possible that changing salts may have weakened the others but not likely that it caused them to die.
From now on I'm going to be REAL picky where I get my clams from.
Yup, I did the freshwater dip of the 3 remaining clams yesterday suppertime - RO/DI water, matched temperature and pH. None reacted badly in the fresh water. They all stayed closed for a few hours after going back in the tank. The newest crocea was the first to bounce back. Late last night they all looked so badly I was worried that at least one would be dead by this morning but as of now I have more hope. The black and green maxima seems to be reattaching itself too. Time will tell.
Looking back now I'm not as sure it was the salt. According to my friend who is a wholesaler of clams and who has helped set up clam farms, it's more likely the last clam I brought in was a carrier of a disease that didn't affect him. It's possible that changing salts may have weakened the others but not likely that it caused them to die.
From now on I'm going to be REAL picky where I get my clams from.
samw
Member
Flame*Angel said:
A few weeks ago, 3 of my clams were not opened like their usual selves. I picked them up and noticed that there was hardly any tissue under the clam. On one of my blue maximas, the 2 shells were almost separated. It looked as if something was eating them from the bottom. So, I decided to put them in a floating plastic trap. Last week, the clams have recovered very well and I decided to put them back on the sandbed. Well, almost instantly, I saw a large 6" bristle worm come out and snatch the clam and carry it to its hole in the liverock. That was unbelievable. I put that clam back in the breeding trap. I'm keeping an eye on the other 2 clams and I'm going to go worm hunting. Caught two 4 inchers so far. But there are still dozens more. I think my worms have been much hungrier lately since I cut back on my tank feeding.
I can imagine that switching salts might have weakened the clams slightly and made them tasty targets for the hungry worms.
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samw
Member
Susan. I've been reading your journal. I noticed a couple of things that were interesting. You said on June 7 that you had lost a monti digitata a while ago and then it appeared mysteriously onto the sand that day. Also, you said that your clam fell onto the sand. These things almost sounds like worms are moving around in your tank at night. What do you think? Try putting some tasty food (large prawns tied to a string) into your tank in the middle of the night and see how many big worms crawl out to grab it. Use flashlight only of course. You probably know bristle worms are very sensitive to light and move very fast. Weakened clams and bristleworms might be a bad combo.
Vili_Shark
New member
Flame Angel
I also think that the last Clam brought a parasite or virus into your tank.
That's why I asked the question in the 1st page.
I do think there's a serious clam disease out there and nobody knows much about it.
It's surely not on Knop's book and I searched alot and could not find anything.
I also think that the last Clam brought a parasite or virus into your tank.
That's why I asked the question in the 1st page.
I do think there's a serious clam disease out there and nobody knows much about it.
It's surely not on Knop's book and I searched alot and could not find anything.
Flame*Angel
Premium Member
I dunno guys. I had ruled out predation because I saw no sign of it in the dead clams. Also, I would have thought that if a predator came in on the last clam it would have eaten that one first - the first clam that died was on the opposite end of the tank. I have an emerald crab that has this thing about moving small objects. He dragged a fallen veggie clip to the back corner of the tank and used to delight in knocking over a round caulastrea I used to have. I'm pretty sure he was behind the digita frag mystery.
Vili_Shark - I know, I've scoured Knopp's book looking for an answer too but nothing he describes matches the symptoms I've seen. I know I'm lousy at diagnostics and that it's easy to jump to conclusions so I'm not ruling anything out. My friend who has been advising me believes it's a disease that the new clam carried in but wasn't affected by.
Today my big black & green maxima is still gaping slightly but I can see two fairly thick strands between him and the scallop shell he's sitting on. He isn't closing or withdrawing his mantle. He does tend to look better in the morning than the evening though. The small gold maxima (my first clam) looked perfect all day today as did the new crocea.
For now I'm planning to just observe, do lots of water changes and try to keep the tank as stable as possible. If I see any signs of any clam declining I will dip them all again in fresh water. I'm really hoping it's not too late for this big maxima.
Vili_Shark - I know, I've scoured Knopp's book looking for an answer too but nothing he describes matches the symptoms I've seen. I know I'm lousy at diagnostics and that it's easy to jump to conclusions so I'm not ruling anything out. My friend who has been advising me believes it's a disease that the new clam carried in but wasn't affected by.
Today my big black & green maxima is still gaping slightly but I can see two fairly thick strands between him and the scallop shell he's sitting on. He isn't closing or withdrawing his mantle. He does tend to look better in the morning than the evening though. The small gold maxima (my first clam) looked perfect all day today as did the new crocea.
For now I'm planning to just observe, do lots of water changes and try to keep the tank as stable as possible. If I see any signs of any clam declining I will dip them all again in fresh water. I'm really hoping it's not too late for this big maxima.
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My bet is still on the "switching to Crystal Sea salt". IMO your a prime canidate for this to happen to. You meet all the criteria in my book. Isn't this the only thing you changed in your system recently? I know your tank and this was a big change to those grandfathered clams. It's just my 2 cents but I'll still bet the it.
samw
Member
My theory was that if the CS salt mixed in an IO established tank kills nuisance and coraline algae, then it might also kill some Zooxanthellae in the clam which makes the bristleworms think that the clam is dead (smell of death) so they start eating it from the bottom and eventually killing it over time. I don't think you can choose which clam the worms will go for first. They'll just go for the one closest to the rock that the worms are living in. This is the only explanation that I can come up with. I'm pretty sure that if I didn't take the clams out of the sandbed, they would be dead now. The recovery was pretty noticeable immediately after I placed them in the plastic trap. This is my theory for my tank and could be totally different from what happened in your tank.
Flame*Angel
Premium Member
tonytooth - I think you're right about the salt switch being the problem. The further away from the time of the switch I get the less problems. The other day my big black and green maxima was looking just awful. I did a 20% water change and added a Polyfilter pad to the sump. I've done plenty of water changes but this was the first time I've ever tried one of the actual brand name Polyfilters. It was kind of a desperate act, I really didn't believe all the claims they make on the packaging. However, I've never seen anything bounce back like this clam did. By the end of the day it was 100% again. My water has been testing perfect but I can't test for heavy metals and that is something that the Polyfilters alegedly take out. My friend, who is something of a clam expert, suggested that mixing the two salts could cause a concentration of heavy metals because of the differences in the methods each uses to bind them. I have no idea if this even makes sense but I really do think that the Polyfilter pads made a difference in my situation. I ordered more 
<b>Here's something I really would like some feedback on:</b>
Yesterday I noticed that the "guts" inside my big green & black maxima have been changing throughout the day. The clam isn't gaping, its intake siphon is just opened slightly (normal for this clam) and I have it positioned so that I can see right inside. I got out my clam book (by Daniel Knop) and started looking at the anatomy diagrams and photos. I can see where the two gills are on each side but what changes is in between them. It's hard to tell, even with the diagrams, but I really think it is the adductor muscle. In the other two clams it is barely visible behind the gills. In the black and green maxima at times it is swollen looking and pushed forward between the gills. I noticed that throughout the day it was almost constantly changing size and position although the clam's mantle was fully extended and its intake siphon barely changed.
<b>So is this changing normal? If not, does anyone know if it is indicative of anything?</b>
<b>Here's something I really would like some feedback on:</b>
Yesterday I noticed that the "guts" inside my big green & black maxima have been changing throughout the day. The clam isn't gaping, its intake siphon is just opened slightly (normal for this clam) and I have it positioned so that I can see right inside. I got out my clam book (by Daniel Knop) and started looking at the anatomy diagrams and photos. I can see where the two gills are on each side but what changes is in between them. It's hard to tell, even with the diagrams, but I really think it is the adductor muscle. In the other two clams it is barely visible behind the gills. In the black and green maxima at times it is swollen looking and pushed forward between the gills. I noticed that throughout the day it was almost constantly changing size and position although the clam's mantle was fully extended and its intake siphon barely changed.
<b>So is this changing normal? If not, does anyone know if it is indicative of anything?</b>
Flame*Angel
Premium Member
Ok, I just unloaded my camera and noticed that one of the pics I took that morning the clam was looking bad shows the part I'm talking about here:
<img src="http://www.sjwilson.net/reef/pics/clam-guts.jpg">
The arrow is pointing to it, it's rounded and bulbous and comes to a bit of a point at the bottom. Could this just be its belly that is filling and emptying?
<img src="http://www.sjwilson.net/reef/pics/clam-guts.jpg">
The arrow is pointing to it, it's rounded and bulbous and comes to a bit of a point at the bottom. Could this just be its belly that is filling and emptying?
BonsaiNut
Premium Member
samw said:
Oh don't say this! There are still people on this board that swear that worms don't eat clams, and won't believe otherwise. I have lost clams to worms before - and I don't buy the "your clam was already dying and the worms just moved in for the kill" logic. If you have big worms, your clams will go the second the worms (1) don't get enough to eat or (2) overproduce to the point that they don't get enough to eat. In my opinion, if you can see worms in your tank, ever, you need to add more worm-eating critters because you have a worm problem.
Turtlesteve
New member
I have never seen any bristleworms look twice at my clams, but I DO have a predatory (<i>oenone</i> sp?) worm that continually preys on my snail populations by smothering them in blobs of clear mucus. Since i have 3 clams, I just keep them on the opposite end of the tank from where the worm lives, and they haven't been bothered. I got back from the florida keys a few days ago and among other things, i brought back several small live <i>conus mus</i>, which i was told are natural predators of these worms, in hopes that they might eventually take out my predatory worm. If they do prove to be worm eaters, this may be a solution for those of you who are losing clams "mysteriously."
Just a thought,
Steve
Just a thought,
Steve
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