Am I a n00b or what! Please help if you can

[BrokenReefer]

I will be moving from Chicago to Florida in the next 6 months and I just purchased a 46gal bowfront tank setup from petsmart. (first mistake!) Was hoping to get the tank setup for saltwater and have some cool fish swimming around, well through my readings I've come to realize that live rock and live sand is the right way to go. I didn't do that, I got crushed coral and some gray/black sand (I forget the name.) (Second mistake!) And while on my little kick, I decided to get some fake rocks with plastic, yet not-even-close-to-lifelike coral and LPS, SPS type stuff on it. (Third mistake!)

Well, now I'm faced with the decision of what to do. Fill it with fish and hope they survive? Sure why not, I've come this far with it and made a lot of mistakes so far - why not endure even more pain!

So, please pick yourselves up off the floor, wipe the tears from your eyes, and help me to answer one question.

If I want fish only, for right now, what would be a good way to go?

So you all know what kind of a bonehead I am, I'll list what I have.

-46gal Bowfront tank
-1 light - don't even know what kind it is, I'll find out when I get home.
-Fluval 304
-1 - 200w heater
-crappy thermometer that sticks to the tank front
-a few pieces of fake rock
-crushed coral + black sand, I think it said something about Florida on it.

Once again, I realize that I went about this the total bonehead route (I did the same thing when I bought my Camaro. Bought first, researched second. D'oh!)

Am I salvageable?

 

[iCam]

<img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="62"><br><b><i><big><big>To Reef Central</b></i></big></big>

Now is the time to make changes if you want to, since there is no livestock in the tank. The crushed/coral/sand is questionable, really personal preference.If it's a 50/50 mix, the sand will eventually settle to the bottom and you will have an upper layer of crushed coral. It's not particularly favorable, especially with a fish in the tank, since it can trap detritus,feces, et cetera.

You will want to put liverock in there to get the biological filter going.

Lighting doesn't really matter if fish is all you plan on keeping for now.

The Fluval is fine, but if you use a filter, make sure you clean it well so that there isn't any waste collecting and further decaying in it.

I would suggest adding a nice amount of liverock, then letting the tank cycle. Make sure you get some good test kits (most people would suggest Salifert- ammonia,nitrates,nitrites,et cetera)), and a refractometer (you can get them for relatively cheap on several of the sponsors sites) to make sure your salinity is always where it should be.

Once all of the water parameters are where they should be, you can start slowly adding livestock.

Good luck!

 

[TekCat]

Not all lost
Since you're moving soon, why not use that time to get right equipment and supplies and then setup a tank. Otherwise, you'd have to tear it down and setup it one more time after you move.

If you still want to set it up right away, IMO, (assuming you want just fish and no corals) is to make FishOnlyWithLiveRock type of setup. LR will provide adequate biological filtration. Definatelly remove crushed coral substrate and plastic rocks. Get aragonite sand(LS is not needed if you have LR), and to save some money get 50/50 base rock/live rock total of 50lbs or so.
Your light is probably fine for FO.. Get a nice thermometer and refractometer. Oh, in whatever setup you'll have having a good skimmer is a very good thing.

 

[TekCat]

Darn! nihonjin_anemone beat me to it while I was typing

 

[Swanwillow]

your ok... take a breath.

you can go to the local home depot and get sand. theres a debate on wether it needs to be calcium carbonate or silica-IMO it doesn't matter, specially since your going fish only.

you need a filtration system. A skimmer, in other words. A good one, and you won't NEED to have live rock for your system. Others can chime in on what type of skimmer would be best: I like my CPR bak-pack. its rated for like, 60 gallons or something like that. Get a skimmer that is over-rated for your tank.

you can also utilize live rock, and your fake rock. be inventive. 50 lbs of LR would do you good!

so, dig out your crushed coral, and utilize sand: 2 inches would be great, since you want fish only.

THEN, you have to add water, add your skimmer, and throw in some junk food to disintergrate: flake food will work. That will start a bacterial cycle (which won't be as good without live rock, but it works.)

get some 'test kits' for salt water aquariums. they test for ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites. The tank will have 'spikes' in ammonia, and then nitrite. That tells you that the bacteria colonies will be growing, and can start handling fish when BOTH ammonia and nitrite read zero. DO NOT GET FISH BEFORE THIS POINT PLEASE! if you do, you risk injuring the fish. this point will take a while to reach: some tanks only takes 2 weeks, others take 2-3 months. The longer you wait with LR in the tank, the better.

Then, you can add fish. But, since its a 46, you may find that the restrictions on your size of fish limiting... dwarf angels, dwarf lionfish being the 'big' ones you can keep -and only one of each. there are people here on RC with GREAT looking 46 gallon bowfronts, you'll have to do a search for them
http://www.reefcentral.com/search.php?s=&menu=11

you MAY want to wait until you move to set up the tank, since you'll be moving it in 6 months, its going to be harder to do then with live animals than when its empty. THAT TIME can be your research time... make lists of what will work, find out what things run a marine aquarium, things like that. (and start dreaming of which fish you want!!!)

 

[Pandora]

Hey pasion,

No use kicking yourself now, the important thing is that you are learning, and you haven't even killed any animals in the process! That already puts you ahead of the game as far as being a n00b So don't feel bad.

I'm not gonna lie to you, it won't be easy to set up a tank and then have to tear it down in a few months. At the 6 month mark, most tanks are just getting into the settled down and established phase. And the moving process is a huge PITA--just think, not only of transporting a large tank and heavy but inert equipment--but also buckets full of live animals, live rock & live sand, all of which needs to have a certain temperature & some oxygenation/circulation over a long trip. The most painless idea is to keep things in storage, read during this time, and do the real setup when you get to your permanent residence in FL. But if you are devoted to the idea of starting it, you could set up something relatively simple, and see how you do.

Black sand--is it "onyx sand"? This is something like volcanic soil. It is sold mostly for planted aquaria... I use some as substrate in my FW planted tank. However, it leeches iron (which is a good thing for plants)... I don't think it's the best for SW. Keep in mind that there are real life black sand beaches, you can find them in places like Jamaica & Hawaii.

Crushed coral... a little coarse for a really good DSB (deep sand bed). However, not the end of the world, because it's made of the same stuff--calcium carbonate. Many people do use it for reefs. It's just that oolitic (small, round grains) are the best. You can take it or leave it, or mix it, that is up to you depending on how much more you want to spend.

The fake rock--what's it made of? If it's made for aquariums, it is probably of an inert substance, and won't hurt your tank. Keep it if you find it attractive. But it won't have any of the biologically beneficial qualities of highly porous live rock.

The Fluval--you have probably heard about canister filters in reef tanks by now? There are people who run them and do ok, but they are mostly in FO or FOWLR tanks (fish only with live rock). If you keep many corals later, you may run into problems with them accumulating nitrate. You can keep that or leave it also, depending on what your ultimate plans are.

Find out what your light is. Again, depends on what you want to keep in terms of corals & photosynthetic animals. But this is a big factor in how well they grow. If you just are planning on a FO for now, it won't be a big deal.

Good luck!

 

[Swanwillow]

and it took me 6 minutes to type out what I wanted... sheesh

wow, at least your getting attention from us!

 

[Pandora]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6632115#post6632115 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Swanwillow
and it took me 6 minutes to type out what I wanted... sheesh

wow, at least your getting attention from us!

I know, man. Don't you just love it when you write a novel to a post that has 0 replies... and then turn around and see that you are the 10th person to post, looking like an idiot for having repeated what everyone else said! LOL

At least it is nice to see there is an independant consensus on many things.

 

[Swanwillow]

oh, and... everyone here has opinions on what works and what doesn't...

I don't do deep sand beds, which one other member already mentioned. for a deep sand bed, you need at least a 4 inch sand bed, if not more (I think that 6 inch is recommended, right?) and there are some fish that we keep that are counter-productive to sand beds. if its name has sand-sifting in it, it will NOT help a deep sand bed... and everything is debatable!

and, most opinions are now to the live rock is a must type of thinking. it adds to the filtration qualities of the tank, and DOES help. I currently have a very-high bioload tank (some fish eat alot more than others) that doesn't have LR (live rock) in sufficient enough quantities to help the filter at all... so I utilize my skimmer a TON, and do weekly water changes. BUT-I am getting LR for the tank, since once you get to looking at it, live rock is so purty.

 

[BrokenReefer]

Wow, thank you very much for the great information.

I'll have to refine my information when I get home and include some of the details about the materials and lights.

I think that for right now I may try and get my hands on some used LR and get a few small fish and see how that goes. It is going to be a PITA to move as it is and whatever LR and fish I have will be sold off or given away. Don't want to deal with the headache of trying to maintain all that on the long drive.

Thank you once again for the great info!

 

[TekCat]

Another advice, do not rely on just one person's advise. Everyone does things a bit different, but generally speaking we all go in the same direction So, ask more if you get confused

 

[Pandora]

Just a few minor things... I know it sounds nitpicky, but they're pet peeves... like people calling apes "monkeys" or saying that "a clown hosts an anemone" (it's the other way around)

Technically, live rock and skimming are not "forms of filtration". They produce much of the same effect, by in the former case, removing proteinaceous wastes before they can become polluting toxins, and in the latter case, by converting these biochemically to less toxic forms. True filtration has some degree of mechanical filtering capability, often with biological activity on top of that (the canister qualifies). And I am not saying or implying that you *need* true filtration, either. Most reef tanks do quite well with skimming + live rock; mechanical filtration isn't bad for large volume waste removal & conversion, such as in a fish only.

The second thing is about sand sifting animals. Yes, they can deplete dentrivores and pods in the top layers of sand. However, to say they are really bad for DSB's is not true either. The aerobic layer covers 2 inches or so the depth of the entire DSB. A sand sifter, such as a cucumber, will only graze to a depth of a few millimeters, and at that... will do so very slowly in a small area. Most dentrivores are resilient enough to deal with this temporary disruption.

Oh, and I like TekCat's last post, too Very true.

 

[BrokenReefer]

Ok, so the Live Rock is not a replacement for a filter system - hence the use of a sump, correct?

And the skimmer is to remove excess dentrites, nitrites/ate's from the water, correct? You don't need to answer those two questions, I do plan on reading up a lot more on the uses of each, benefits, etc... Just a quick off the cuff question.

 

[Pandora]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6632405#post6632405 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pasion
Ok, so the Live Rock is not a replacement for a filter system - hence the use of a sump, correct?

And the skimmer is to remove excess dentrites, nitrites/ate's from the water, correct? You don't need to answer those two questions, I do plan on reading up a lot more on the uses of each, benefits, etc... Just a quick off the cuff question.

I just meant it technically doesn't function the same way. It does however, produce some of the same results, and in some ways, does a better job of it (it can complete the nitrogen cycle if there is enough of it, and not too much bioload). People have sumps to supplement it sometimes... look up some stuff on refugiums, and how they work.

A skimmer removes raw protein waste. Many times this is before nitrites and nitrates are even formed. We're talking about larger organic molecules before the breakdown occurs.

Way to go on your initiative with reading... it'll take you far...

 

[BrokenReefer]

Oh ok, I had mistook the protein skimmer then. Thank you!

Is there a book out there that you feel is one of the best for newbies? I've done some searching and found a few that will be bought in the next few days, just kinda wondering what some of the other's feel is a better book.

 

[TekCat]

Think of LR as a part of your filtration. Skimmers as Pandora said remove gunk from water before it gets decomposed to amm/trite/trate. But some will slip by, that's where bio-filtration occurs, mainly by LR and LS. That is very basic filtration sceme: LR and skimmer that is.
In addition, mechanical and chemical filters could be added as needed (carbon/phosphate removing media/etc...)
Many use refugims to grow macro algea that helps exporting nitrates and some phosphates.
... keep reading

 

[Swanwillow]

^ what they said.

but, I was talking about fish --->sand sifting gobies, things like that... they go so deep into your sandbed that there ARE no anerobic spots for the bacteria to form, stuff like that... I'm not in the mood for a disscussion on yes or no to DSB, etc. etc...

I'm just making the point that I've heard others say... and I'm getting a jawfish, which is NOT conductive to a DSB (deep sand bed) because of thier habits...

but, thats a disscussion for AFTER he decides to go with or without one. (a dsb OR a type of fish like that)

good luck anyways!!!! theres TONS of learning to be done!

 

[dchao]

pasion:

petsmart is not too shabby, have you been to petco?

my sugguestion is go Fish Only before the move, and then upgrade to reef after the move, and in the mean time, you can learn a lot by hanging arouund here.

What else do you need for FO? I would get a protien skimmer and some powerheads, then you are ready to go. You don't need live rocks if you are only keeping fish. crushed coral is fine for now since you are going to throw it away in 6 month time.

I use AquaC Remora with surface preskimmer (it's important to extract from the water surface, and to help gas exchange), only 2.75" thick. Very easy to setup, really good looking too.

http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_protein_skimmers_aquac_remora_pro.asp?CartId=