Amino Supplements

[rgrobe]

I have read that low nutrient tanks should be dosed with amino compounds. I have worked hard to maintain near undetectable limits of nitrates and phosphates. I have been successful in eliminating (at least at the current time) nuisance algae in my tank. Cal-430, Alk-9.3dkh, Mag-1350, Ph-8.2 to 8.35, nitrates-0.00, Phosphate-0.02. These levels stay fairly consistent.

My chaeto growth has slowed. All my corals, inverts, and fish seem to be doing well.

Are amino supplements recommended for low nutrient tanks? Is it possible that low levels of nutrients in the water could have detrimental affects? Since my livestock seems to be doing well is it possible that I lucked out and found a good balance, at least for now?

Recommendations and explanation about the aminos would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[therealfatman]

It is doubtful if you have fish that your tank is so low in nutrients as to need amino acid supplements. If you have substrate in your tank I would even consider giving it a little stir every few days before using amino acid supplements.

If trying amino acids try just thawing your frozen food in a few drops of the supplement rather that actually adding the supplement directly to your tank. IMO

I gut feed amino acids to live food being put in bare bottom SPS tanks that are heavily skimmed and contain no live rock, but I feed the live food phytoplankton if it is being fed into tanks with substare and live rock.

 

[bertoni]

Amino acid supplements might be useful if the tank is actually not providing enough nutrients. In theory, a tank could be driven low enough in nutrients to cause problems for certain animals, but that's a complication issue, because nutrients can be live food, particulate waste, or dissolved substances. If your animals are doing well, I'm skeptical that amino acids are the first experiment to try.

 

[rgrobe]

Thanks,

Sounds like it is not necessary right now.

 

[bertoni]

That'd be my guess.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do not bother to dose amino acids, but some may be useful. I consider it still experimental. I discuss them here:

The “How To” Guide to Reef Aquarium Chemistry for Beginners, Part 2: What Chemicals Must be Supplemented
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-04/rhf/index.php

from it:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-04/rhf/index.php#15

Supplementing Amino Acids
The deposition of calcium carbonate into intricately structured skeletons is one of the wonders of corals that aquarists marvel at. At the molecular level, corals often guide the precipitation of calcium carbonate with organic materials, encouraging precipitation on some parts of the skeleton or inhibiting it elsewhere. Often these organic materials are proteins that contain negatively charged amino acids, such as aspartic acid. These negatively charged amino acids may interact strongly with positively charged calcium as it is deposited, allowing the proteins to guide the precipitation.

It turns out that some corals cannot make enough aspartic acid to meet their demand, and must get it from foods or from the water. Depending on the species of coral involved and the foods provided to the aquarium, the supplied foods may not be an appropriate source of aspartic acid for corals, and supplemental aspartic acid has the potential to be useful. It might be taken up directly or be taken up by other organisms that are, in turn, consumed by the coral (e.g., bacteria).

I do not presently add any amino acids to my aquarium, but some aquarists do. Those who do sometimes report improvements in the appearance of their corals. I do not know if this is a true cause and effect, or a coincidence, but aquarists might consider dosing certain amino acids. A number of commercial amino acid supplements are available to hobbyists, and some might also be obtained in suitable form from a health food store (beware of phosphate as one of the other ingredients in human supplements).

I don’t have a recommended dose. If you choose to experiment, start with a low dose, say, 1/8 teaspoon (0.5 gram) of solid amino acid or the equivalent amount of a solution, to a 100-gallon aquarium once a week. Then, slowly ramp up the dose, looking for positive or negative effects.

Note, however, that not all amino acids are beneficial. Many may just drive bacterial growth, and all contain nitrogen, so they may contribute to the nitrogenous waste that ends up as nitrate in many aquaria.

Additional discussion of the effects of amino acids and other organics on calcification by corals appears in this article:

The Chemical & Biochemical Mechanisms of Calcification in Corals
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/apr2002/chem.htm

 

[therealfatman]

Randy, are your recommendations based upon the use of free form amino acids rather than amino acids accounted for by their presence in a food or complex nutrient? So your not suggesting the addition directly to the water of a complex mixture that also contains fatty acids, such as Selco or Selcon, which are several of the most commonly seen preparations containing amino acids.

Is this amino acid opinion based upon research that seems to show that the amino acids are absorbed externally rather than internally by corals.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My comments above were related to dosing free amino acids, but i agree that I do not know if there is adequate material dosed in foods or not. My lack of strong confidence that it is useful is a reason I do not bother. But it may be.

I do dose Selcon by soaking it into nori, but I don't think it contains any amino acids.

FWIW, a dosed amino acid might or might not be taken up directly. It could be taken up after something else converts it into suitable food (like a bacteria that the coral might ingest).

 

[MCsaxmaster]

Corals can take up and used DFAAs directly and have been shown to do so even at the relatively low concentrations available in reef water most of the time. However, such uptake accounts for only a small fraction of their N needs, and a far smaller fraction of their C needs. Even at maximal rates of uptake uptake of DFAAs doesn't appear to be able to provide more than maybe 1/3 of their N needs, and a few percent of their C needs. Some other organisms, notably microbes, are much better at taking up and utilizing DFAAs.

Dosing amino acids is a method of feeding corals (and others)--nothing more and nothing less. They can certainly be used if a person wishes, but in most situations there are more effective, cheaper ways to feed corals. Some crushed up fish food or blenderized seafood is probably more effective for feeding most corals. Of course, that doesn't come in cool looking, expensive little bottles

 

[toaster77]

Randy and MCSax both make excellent points in that the amount of dosed amino acids taken up by corals is probably a lot less than you'd expect, and much of it could be broken down into nitrogenous "waste" and other metabolites. Just think about it - all the microbes, bacteria, inverts, heck even the fish in your tank also likely take up the amino acids. So I would not be surprised if not even 1% of the amino acids you dose ever directly make it into the corals themselves. I'm not saying that one should not dose AAs, but just something to think about...

Also, one could argue that the apparent beneficial effects of amino acid dosing could be explained by the breakdown of amino acids into metabolites that could help fuel the growth of beneficial bacteria, which help reduce phosphate, nitrates, etc. and then THAT improves coloration, etc.

Just throwing the possibility out there.

 

[MCsaxmaster]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14183050#post14183050 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by toaster77
Randy and MCSax both make excellent points in that the amount of dosed amino acids taken up by corals is probably a lot less than you'd expect, and much of it could be broken down into nitrogenous "waste" and other metabolites. Just think about it - all the microbes, bacteria, inverts, heck even the fish in your tank also likely take up the amino acids. So I would not be surprised if not even 1% of the amino acids you dose ever directly make it into the corals themselves. I'm not saying that one should not dose AAs, but just something to think about...

Also, one could argue that the apparent beneficial effects of amino acid dosing could be explained by the breakdown of amino acids into metabolites that could help fuel the growth of beneficial bacteria, which help reduce phosphate, nitrates, etc. and then THAT improves coloration, etc.

Just throwing the possibility out there.

Agree, except for DFAA uptake by fish--vertebrates appear incapable of any signifcant direct uptake of DFAAs from the external medium Corals can and probably do take up at least some of the DFAAs dosed to reef tanks, but we really don't know what is happening to most of what gets put into the tank. Bacteria and perhaps algae probably take the lion's share.

 

[therealfatman]

Thank you!

 

[rgrobe]

Thanks for all the input. I can see I have some reading ahead.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

:thumbsup:

Happy Reefing.