An experiment in gavage feeding an unhealthy H. magnifica
- Thread starter WrinkleFreeZone
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WrinkleFreeZone
New member
Since my last post, I fed a rather large piece of silverside to see what would happen. I was hoping to switch over to once a week feeding. In retrospect, this was probably a little premature.
The interesting part about the feeding is that the piece was so large that after it ingested it the anemone wasn't able to close its mouth fully. The anemone appears to be able to complete some digestion with its mouth open a bit as it did not regurgitate the piece and today it's mouth is closed tightly again. If I hadn't seen what occurred, I think that I would have panicked a bit and thought that I had a set back.
It has continued to recover it's pigment but the bleaching has not fully resolved. Here's the updated picture that I spoke about. I'm sorry about the quality, the anemone has moved to the back of the tank and it's a hard shot to get. The one in question is the middle one in the shot with its mouth visible.
-B
The interesting part about the feeding is that the piece was so large that after it ingested it the anemone wasn't able to close its mouth fully. The anemone appears to be able to complete some digestion with its mouth open a bit as it did not regurgitate the piece and today it's mouth is closed tightly again. If I hadn't seen what occurred, I think that I would have panicked a bit and thought that I had a set back.
It has continued to recover it's pigment but the bleaching has not fully resolved. Here's the updated picture that I spoke about. I'm sorry about the quality, the anemone has moved to the back of the tank and it's a hard shot to get. The one in question is the middle one in the shot with its mouth visible.
-B
shabreeson
New member
maybe u should cut up the silverside more before feeding, really u could cut it up so it has just as much surface area as mysis.
love the experiment by the way.
love the experiment by the way.
WrinkleFreeZone
New member
Tufacody - I agree. Stick with small pieces until they're fully recovered. Admittedly, I was pushing the envelope a bit. My hope was to move to a once per week feeding schedule. It wasn't ready yet. I'm going to reduce the size of what I'm giving it and feed twice per week for the time being. Sorry folks, I seem to have forgotten the cardinal rule for the hobby -"go slowly, for nothing good happens quickly." 
-B
-B
WrinkleFreeZone
New member
Bad news tonight
Bad news tonight
When I started this thread I spoke about full disclosure positive or negative in terms of outcome. So far, I've had a lot of things to say that were positive. Tonight, not so. The anemone has been doing fine and when I left this morning there were no issues. Tonight, it definitely looks like it's taken a step back and it's not nearly as perky. I never expected that I would be sailing free at this point, and my concerns have proven to be justified.
I've been watching it closely at the top of my tank since it has taken up residence there. It's much smaller than my other mags and there is some shading from them. Since my last post it has now placed its foot in a nook between two others. I've been worried about the flow and light it has been receiving. In fact I've been worried enough that I have made moves to obtain a piece of plate rock that is currently cycling to make more room for all of them. As soon as it's ready (hopefully tomorrow or Sunday) I'll adjust my rock work.
My observation this evening has to do with flow for them. What is interesting is that its posture seems to be highly dependent on flow. I pushed aside the collar of one of the larger ones to relieve the crowding a bit and in a very short period of time the turgor of its tissues improved dramatically but not completely. I question if this has to do with some gas or nutrient exchange that can only be effectively accomplished with high flow given the number of tentacles that they possess.
-B
Bad news tonight
When I started this thread I spoke about full disclosure positive or negative in terms of outcome. So far, I've had a lot of things to say that were positive. Tonight, not so. The anemone has been doing fine and when I left this morning there were no issues. Tonight, it definitely looks like it's taken a step back and it's not nearly as perky. I never expected that I would be sailing free at this point, and my concerns have proven to be justified.
I've been watching it closely at the top of my tank since it has taken up residence there. It's much smaller than my other mags and there is some shading from them. Since my last post it has now placed its foot in a nook between two others. I've been worried about the flow and light it has been receiving. In fact I've been worried enough that I have made moves to obtain a piece of plate rock that is currently cycling to make more room for all of them. As soon as it's ready (hopefully tomorrow or Sunday) I'll adjust my rock work.
My observation this evening has to do with flow for them. What is interesting is that its posture seems to be highly dependent on flow. I pushed aside the collar of one of the larger ones to relieve the crowding a bit and in a very short period of time the turgor of its tissues improved dramatically but not completely. I question if this has to do with some gas or nutrient exchange that can only be effectively accomplished with high flow given the number of tentacles that they possess.
-B
tufacody
New member
Whatever happens this has been a great thread and I'm certainly rooting for you.
I agree that flow is the hardest thing to predict. My experience has been that they like lower flow for quite a while until they build up their strength, then you can let it rip. I'd also hold off on the feeding for 4-5 days. If you got some down its gullet, especially if its enriched, I think more feedings now might be harmful.
Funny, I'm like a big anemone. I have Crohn's disease, and due to poor absorbtion I have to stuggle with nutrition myself. Unfortunately, the more I eat, the more I upset the gut, and then I absorb even less. I think sick nems are like this too. You gotta get that nutrition in there, but you can't devote all its energy to digestion either.
I agree that flow is the hardest thing to predict. My experience has been that they like lower flow for quite a while until they build up their strength, then you can let it rip. I'd also hold off on the feeding for 4-5 days. If you got some down its gullet, especially if its enriched, I think more feedings now might be harmful.
Funny, I'm like a big anemone. I have Crohn's disease, and due to poor absorbtion I have to stuggle with nutrition myself. Unfortunately, the more I eat, the more I upset the gut, and then I absorb even less. I think sick nems are like this too. You gotta get that nutrition in there, but you can't devote all its energy to digestion either.
WrinkleFreeZone
New member
Intraspecific (within a species) aggression
Intraspecific (within a species) aggression
If you've made it this far through the pages, let me tell you that I'm sorry if my posts are too verbose. I love learning about our hobby and when I'm passionate about a topic...well, you see what happens. It's just that there are some really interesting and amazing things out there. Here's one that I would like to share with you. I've just come across several articles that talk about the methods in which anemones compete for space. Anemones may simply swallow a competitor as if it were prey or they may employ structures called acrorhagi and catch tentacles to incapacitate or kill its competition.
Acrorhagi are "outgrowths of the body-wall found in some genera of Actiniaria, containing a strong concentration of Holotrichs (nematocysts). They may be simple and spherical, slightly branched, or even frondose. These outgrowths occur in the Family Actiniidae, specifically in these 9 genera: Actinia, Anemonia, Anthostella, Phymactis, Phymanthea, Bunodosoma, Pseudactinia, Oulactis, and Anthopleura" If you want to read more about them or see some pictures see this link - http://darwin.nhm.ku.edu/inverts/InterGlossary/listofterms/Acrorhagi.htm or check out this link http://www.marinebio.net/marinescience/03ecology/tplow.htm(the section on acrorhagi in starburst anemones is about midway through the page).
"Catch tentacles are larger and more opaque than normal feeding tentacles, are capable of great enlargement, and possess a cnidom differing strikingly from that of the regular or feeding tentacles." In some species of anemones, individuals that do not possess them can develop them when placed in close proximity to a competitor. They are like poison tipped spears. Nematocysts at their tip will only discharge when a genetically unidentical individual is contacted. The catch tentacle then breaks off in that individual and necrosis and/or death ensues! If you want to read more about these check it out here - http://www.biolbull.org/cgi/reprint/153/2/355
The long and the short of it, is that some species of anemone tend to group together and others remain solitary. It's hypothesized that in those that will group, the members of the same clone do not create significant numbers of these structures to use on its clonemates and that they tolerate each other. If you introduce a same species individual that is not part of the same clone, these structures are used until the non clone individual either moves off or habituation (tolerance) of it develops. Individuals of other species are not tolerated at all and in those that only demonstrate solitary behaviors war ensues. Check out this link for a cool paper about this - http://www.biolbull.org/cgi/reprint/162/3/345.pdf
My troubles with the tone in my anemone did not begin until it began to physically contact its larger non clone tank mates. I wonder if due to the current crowding situation in my tank if I'm experiencing this kind of space competition. If so, hopefully, habituation is going to occur and this will sort itself out. If there is a marine biologist that comes across this post it would be really cool to see if H. magnifica uses either acrorhagi or catch tentacles in intraspecific competition.
-B
Intraspecific (within a species) aggression
If you've made it this far through the pages, let me tell you that I'm sorry if my posts are too verbose. I love learning about our hobby and when I'm passionate about a topic...well, you see what happens. It's just that there are some really interesting and amazing things out there. Here's one that I would like to share with you. I've just come across several articles that talk about the methods in which anemones compete for space. Anemones may simply swallow a competitor as if it were prey or they may employ structures called acrorhagi and catch tentacles to incapacitate or kill its competition.
Acrorhagi are "outgrowths of the body-wall found in some genera of Actiniaria, containing a strong concentration of Holotrichs (nematocysts). They may be simple and spherical, slightly branched, or even frondose. These outgrowths occur in the Family Actiniidae, specifically in these 9 genera: Actinia, Anemonia, Anthostella, Phymactis, Phymanthea, Bunodosoma, Pseudactinia, Oulactis, and Anthopleura" If you want to read more about them or see some pictures see this link - http://darwin.nhm.ku.edu/inverts/InterGlossary/listofterms/Acrorhagi.htm or check out this link http://www.marinebio.net/marinescience/03ecology/tplow.htm(the section on acrorhagi in starburst anemones is about midway through the page).
"Catch tentacles are larger and more opaque than normal feeding tentacles, are capable of great enlargement, and possess a cnidom differing strikingly from that of the regular or feeding tentacles." In some species of anemones, individuals that do not possess them can develop them when placed in close proximity to a competitor. They are like poison tipped spears. Nematocysts at their tip will only discharge when a genetically unidentical individual is contacted. The catch tentacle then breaks off in that individual and necrosis and/or death ensues! If you want to read more about these check it out here - http://www.biolbull.org/cgi/reprint/153/2/355
The long and the short of it, is that some species of anemone tend to group together and others remain solitary. It's hypothesized that in those that will group, the members of the same clone do not create significant numbers of these structures to use on its clonemates and that they tolerate each other. If you introduce a same species individual that is not part of the same clone, these structures are used until the non clone individual either moves off or habituation (tolerance) of it develops. Individuals of other species are not tolerated at all and in those that only demonstrate solitary behaviors war ensues. Check out this link for a cool paper about this - http://www.biolbull.org/cgi/reprint/162/3/345.pdf
My troubles with the tone in my anemone did not begin until it began to physically contact its larger non clone tank mates. I wonder if due to the current crowding situation in my tank if I'm experiencing this kind of space competition. If so, hopefully, habituation is going to occur and this will sort itself out. If there is a marine biologist that comes across this post it would be really cool to see if H. magnifica uses either acrorhagi or catch tentacles in intraspecific competition.
-B
WrinkleFreeZone
New member
I've suspected that the recent change in the condition of my newest anemone may be due to a challenge posed to the established anemones in my tank. The problem did not begin until the newest one made physical contact with the others and began to compete for space near the top of my tank. I've been unable to find information about the use of acrorhagi or catch tentacles in H. magnifica although other members of the order actiniaria clearly do.
As cool as they may be, I have not witnessed any evidence of catch tentacles in my tank. This morning, however, I have made an observation that suggests that H. magnifica may use acrorhagi or a related structure in this process. I used some plastic tongs to push aside the collar of one of the established ones in my tank so that I could get a better view of my troubled specimen. When I did, the edge of the collar actually stuck onto the plastic as if it were a prey item. If you've ever had contact with the tentacles of this species on your bare skin you'll know exactly the feeling that I'm talking about. I had to wiggle the tongs quite a bit to actually pull it off. I looked at the area of the tissues that contacted it and there are deep purple ridges present here that are different in color and quality from the surrounding tissues Given that these ridges could catch and hold my tongs my guess is that these are acrorhagi or a similar structure in these species. If I'm right, my anemones are at war.
The new specimen is substantially smaller than the others and due to shear volume, I have no doubt will be crushed if habituation doesn't occur in a short period of time. If not, then unfortunately, it's going to have to move off (which at this point it doesn't seem inclined to do) or it's going to be killed.
-B
As cool as they may be, I have not witnessed any evidence of catch tentacles in my tank. This morning, however, I have made an observation that suggests that H. magnifica may use acrorhagi or a related structure in this process. I used some plastic tongs to push aside the collar of one of the established ones in my tank so that I could get a better view of my troubled specimen. When I did, the edge of the collar actually stuck onto the plastic as if it were a prey item. If you've ever had contact with the tentacles of this species on your bare skin you'll know exactly the feeling that I'm talking about. I had to wiggle the tongs quite a bit to actually pull it off. I looked at the area of the tissues that contacted it and there are deep purple ridges present here that are different in color and quality from the surrounding tissues Given that these ridges could catch and hold my tongs my guess is that these are acrorhagi or a similar structure in these species. If I'm right, my anemones are at war.
The new specimen is substantially smaller than the others and due to shear volume, I have no doubt will be crushed if habituation doesn't occur in a short period of time. If not, then unfortunately, it's going to have to move off (which at this point it doesn't seem inclined to do) or it's going to be killed.
-B
Pacific Reefs
New member
Wonderful thread and great for taking a chance on a new approach!
WrinkleFreeZone
New member
Artur - I have only kept them under 250 W or 400 W MHs. I don't have any experience with 150 W. I'm not sure if it's enought light for them or not. I'd be willing to bet that someone on here can speak up about this. If it settles in and doesn't wander in your tank then maybe it's enough.
-B
-B
I one tank with two 150-watt 10,000K MHs and the H. mags are fine in it. They are directly under the lights, maybe 12-15 inches from the bulb. I also have another tank with one H. mag and one 150-watt 10,000K directly over it. They are stationary and display a good color and are generally healthy and eat well, etc. So, you shouldn't have a problem. I would suggest placing the H. mag directly beneath the bulb and not too far fro the bulb (top of tentacles a foot or so from bulb). I also think you get especially high PAR with 10000K. I like XM bulbs myself, they cast a nice color, not too yellow.
Thank I´ll keep an eye on the light,
I ve tried to feed it twice no luck so far
I dont get response from leaving the food over the tentacles so I moved to force feeding like in this thread but again at first I put the food in the gapping mouth and it thightens but then it opens again and drops the food
other quiestion is it normal for them to deflate almost compleatly?
I ve tried to feed it twice no luck so far
I dont get response from leaving the food over the tentacles so I moved to force feeding like in this thread but again at first I put the food in the gapping mouth and it thightens but then it opens again and drops the food
other quiestion is it normal for them to deflate almost compleatly?
I just feed it
took a piece of raw shrimp, I notice a bit of tentacle movement at the time of contact with the food
What do you guys think about feeding it a cube of frozen food
I have several types of H2O life frozzen like cyclops and coralfood
which mostly are spirulina rotifiers brine sh. mysid sh. and chop mussel and vitamin c
And do you think that flatworm exit could harm my mag???
I have a few flatworrms and this will be my third anf hope final treatment
took a piece of raw shrimp, I notice a bit of tentacle movement at the time of contact with the food
What do you guys think about feeding it a cube of frozen food
I have several types of H2O life frozzen like cyclops and coralfood
which mostly are spirulina rotifiers brine sh. mysid sh. and chop mussel and vitamin c
And do you think that flatworm exit could harm my mag???
I have a few flatworrms and this will be my third anf hope final treatment
WrinkleFreeZone
New member
I prefer to use mysis as an initial food. I don't see any reason not to try the other items that you have. When you say frozen, I hope you mean to thaw it first. I would worry that the cold could injure its tissue.
Flatworm exit is supposed to be reef safe. I wouldn't worry too much about the chemical, but would be sure to vacuum out as many of the dead and dying worms as it is my understanding that they accumulate toxins which can be released into the water when they die off. I've heard of livestock loss with treatments for them. I don't personally have any experience with the product however.
-B
Flatworm exit is supposed to be reef safe. I wouldn't worry too much about the chemical, but would be sure to vacuum out as many of the dead and dying worms as it is my understanding that they accumulate toxins which can be released into the water when they die off. I've heard of livestock loss with treatments for them. I don't personally have any experience with the product however.
-B
WrinkleFreeZone
New member
Today, the slab rock that I've been cycling was finally ready to go in my tank. If the anemones move onto it, it should ease some of my crowding issues. When I put it into my reef, I had an opportunity to take the one that I've been nursing along and move it to another area of my rockwork. Hopefully, this will give it a chance to recover some more.
-B
-B
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