Anenome

i think the live sand is proven to help cycling. in my tanks its helped for sure.
ive used bio spira type products but only when i was new in the hobby

now i use vodka to boost bacteria.
 
Biospira IS bacteria...it contains millions of denitrification bacteria that you'd have to wait so long in your tank for them to form
 
i use a capfull every 2 or 3 days. i started using it for phosphate controll actually but its a double edged sword. it affects the tank similar to zeo in that its a carbon source.
 
The Biospira site is an add for their product, and their peer reviewed articles are dated at best (newest is 2001 and does not state the use of the mentioned product). Finally the site seemed to cite freshwater but not saltwater... while this might not be a factor, it is worthy to report. Biospira, or any additive will not cycle and mature an aquarium instantly, even fully cured live rock will not have enough bacteria to support a stocked aquarium instantly. It may speed the process up but there is no such thing as a quickfix.... except patience. =D

I havent done enough research into vodka, but there are enough decent hobbiest using it (without corperate affilations) that it is legit when used properly.

Finally, I had a nitirite spike after my first cycle when I first started off and the "add bacteria" stuff does not work at all in my opinion (excluding 'live' sand)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10364756#post10364756 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Poorcollegereef
The Biospira site is an add for their product, and their peer reviewed articles are dated at best (newest is 2001 and does not state the use of the mentioned product). Finally the site seemed to cite freshwater but not saltwater... while this might not be a factor, it is worthy to report. Biospira, or any additive will not cycle and mature an aquarium instantly, even fully cured live rock will not have enough bacteria to support a stocked aquarium instantly. It may speed the process up but there is no such thing as a quickfix.... except patience. =D

I havent done enough research into vodka, but there are enough decent hobbiest using it (without corperate affilations) that it is legit when used properly.

Finally, I had a nitirite spike after my first cycle when I first started off and the "add bacteria" stuff does not work at all in my opinion (excluding 'live' sand)
Click to expand...


Sorry but you are wrong . Bio Spira works as I have seen for my self and a friend use it and I know a guy that has a business setting up and maintaining aquariums throught the state . He uses Bio Spira for every new tank he sets up , fresh and saltwater . Other bacteria additives don`t do this and just help speed up the cycle by a week or two .
Have you used Bio-Spira ? Just because you used some other product that compares to stress zyme or cycle , doesn`t mean Bio-Spira doesn`t work . Bio-Spira is in a totally different category than any of the other bacteria products .


Here is some of the actual research on Bio-Spira .
http://www.marineland.com/science/nspira.asp


Yet you exclude live sand , the sand has the bacteria just like Bio-Spira does .
 
No one said it was a "quickfix" PoorCollegeReef. What takes so long in a cycle is waiting for your denitrification bacteria to lower your levels...welll when you have millions more with BIOSPIRA that help lower the levels the cycle is almost overnight. Not a quickfix, but a faster cycle.
 
I appreciate the link...some interesting information. I was disappointed that the only article that seems to even touch on the marine aquaria is from 1996, and I didn't see BioSpira mentioned at all. An interesting skim, anyways. A little tough to get into, and I'm not sure I fully understand a lot of it...lol

I'm not in a position to tell you that BioSpira doesn't work, can't work, or that it's a sham. I'm certainly no expert in microbiology.

This thread has gotten a little off topic...how are your fish holding up, Country?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10364900#post10364900 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dawman
Sorry but you are wrong .


Here is some of the actual research on Bio-Spira .
http://www.marineland.com/science/nspira.asp


Yet you exclude live sand , the sand has the bacteria just like Bio-Spira does .
Click to expand...

Wow, this is turning into a infomercial for marineland...

Ok, as I have stated that the "research" come from a bias source and is extremely dated. The two most recent articles from the site you posted (I read them before I postedm orginal opinion) and they are:


Paul C. Burrell, Carol M. Phalen, and Timothy A. Hovanec Ph.D.. Identification of Bacteria Responsible for Ammonia Oxidation in Freshwater Aquaria. APPLIED AND ENVIRONMENTAL MICROBIOLOGY, Dec. 2001, p. 5791-5800


Hovanec, T. A., L. T. Taylor, A. Blakis and E. F. DeLong. 1998. Nitrospira- Like Bacteria Associated with Nitrite Oxidation in Freshwater Aquaria. Applied and Environmental Microbiology Vol. 64, No. 1: 258-264.

Like earlier posts, people have claimed that they put fish in the very next day, so how is that now a "quickfix" when thi hobby considers a year to be a short-term milemarker.

I excluded livesand because I have no person experience with the product(s)... and I also want to state that live sand it NOT sand with added bacteria, but rather a different type of product... we should not confuse the definition, please.

Slakker is right, we should be listening for country's updates. We should offer more generistic advice such as to add skimming, and refugium to promote a good tank... not just act as paid marineland sponsors

(PS: I have used BioSpira and it is just above the Skilter as a worthless investment)
 
Maybe in your eyes , but not to the people that have used it and have experience with it . Anyway , that is your opinion and so on . But I have one final question for you and I`ll let country have his thread back . How is it that you are 20 years old and have 19 years of experiance in this hobby ? You actually had and maintained your own tank at 1 year old or is your experience calculated in dog years ? Always wanted to know after seeing your post . :fish2:

"not just act as paid marineland sponsors" Just because you supposedly used it and didn`t like it and I have the facts and proof it works doesn`t make me a so called Marineland Sponsor .
 
Live rock and live sand do the same as those bio additives.

Anyway back to the original post.......

Something like this would be ideal...
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=16745&N=2004+22778

You could also build your own outta acrylic. You can fit a refugium and skimmer all in the same place. Plus it adds to your water volume aiding in stability. Can you list all equipment you have....in detail? i.e. lighting: Metal halide or normal output fluorescent or compact fluorescent ect. That would also help.
 
Ok, let back off the personal attacks, and avoid the "you're wrong arguments, ok? I never directly addessed anyone as a marineland spokesman, but if there is research to be posted, it should be of a 3 person party, with no incentive to slant for fiancial gain. Constantly posting a company's website leading to partial information and add is getting close to free marketing for a company.

I would like to see a controled environment study of the effects of adding biological additives. If there is no such evidence of a thrid party independent study, then there are no fact that prove any product can "instantly" or nearly instantly cure an aquarium.

It is important to any new hobbiest or those experience ones to not assume that the claims/research by a company wishing sell a product or fish store trying to sell inventory is true and unfalliable. Like any pursuit there needs to be a fair amount of reading of UNBIAS reseach and experience. I, for one, do not fall for bandwagon arguments nor defer to bias sources of "authority"
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10365757#post10365757 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Poorcollegereef
Ok, let back off the personal attacks, and avoid the "you're wrong arguments, ok? I never directly addessed anyone as a marineland spokesman, but if there is research to be posted, it should be of a 3 person party, with no incentive to slant for fiancial gain. Constantly posting a company's website leading to partial information and add is getting close to free marketing for a company.

I would like to see a controled environment study of the effects of adding biological additives. If there is no such evidence of a thrid party independent study, then there are no fact that prove any product can "instantly" or nearly instantly cure an aquarium.

It is important to any new hobbiest or those experience ones to not assume that the claims/research by a company wishing sell a product or fish store trying to sell inventory is true and unfalliable. Like any pursuit there needs to be a fair amount of reading of UNBIAS reseach and experience. I, for one, do not fall for bandwagon arguments nor defer to bias sources of "authority"
Click to expand...


Look at your posts , you DID call me a paid marineland sponsor . I did no person attack , just asking a question . Constantly posting a companies website ? I posted once and wasn`t partial info . Third party evidence ? I can name someone that uses it at least twice a week whe setting up new tanks for his customers . You are theone shouting out a bunch of B.S and then saying you didn`t say it . There is fact that it works from the company and the people that actually have used it . Open your eyes instead of your mouth , it`s amazing how much you can learn Whatever , your the 20 year old pro with 19 years of experience . Yet you still didn`t answer the question .
 
Any further "off topic" posts will be removed, and if people can't stop arguing, they will find themselves arguing outside of RC.

Kevin
 
Back to the topic...bumkin, another thing I'd recommend is to buy a basic book on saltwater aquariums. That might be more helpful as a general introduction than the forums.

To keep it simple, many reefkeepers follow what's known as the Berlin method: strong light (usually metal halide or t-5 lights--google them), live rock and sand, and protein skimming. The live rock acts as a biological filter, and the protein skimmer is the mechanical filter. You also want to make sure that your water flow is adequate--you can determine the water flow based on your pump's information. Reefkeeping can get infinitely more complicated than that (as seen here), but that would be a good place to start.
 
Forgot to add, good luck! I'm sure you're wondering if all this is more effort than it's worth, but with patience comes results. The 80/20 rule is definitely in effect here--spend 80% of your time on planning and 20% on actually doing it. There's a steep learning curve at first, but we all came into the hobby not knowing anything.
 
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