Another acropora advice thread

[Bpb]

I'll try to be as brief as possible, as I tend to get long winded. Everyone wants full tank stats and history before diagnosing anything so here goes.

90 gallon display very rock heavy
40 gallon sump all 3 chambers filled with rock and macro algae
2x250 watt Radiums in lumenmax 2 reflectors, m80 ballasts
48" BML super actinic led strip
WP40 and MP40 for flow
Jaebo DC return pump
2 part dosing on BRS pumps through apex, hourly
78-80 degree temp range, usually doesnt drift far beyond 78.5
Alk: 7.0 dKH on average,
Ca: 450 ppm
Mg: 1450 ppm
PO4: 0.04 ppm
NO3: 1 ppm
Age: 11 months old
5% water change weekly, 10% at the first of each month using standard IO
all RODI for ATO and water changes, membrane & DI resin replaced 2 months ago, always producing zero tds, via the HM dual meter which I calibrate monthly
SG: 1.026 via the VeeGee seawater refractometer which I also calibrate monthly (though it never drifts, I suppose I CHECK it monthly)
Food: BRS Reef Chili and Cyclopeeze target fed to all corals 3x a week
PE Mysis and Elos Amino acids broadcast fed to fish 3-4x a week
NLS pellets fed to fish daily 2-3 times

On my previous tank I had fantastic success growing any acropora I dropped in the water. It was miraculous how fast everything grew. I also ran an oversized protein skimmer, biopellet reactor, GFO reactor, and rox 0.8 carbon in a reactor. My colors and growth were tremendous. I shut the tank down at the 2 year mark and upgraded to my 90 gallon. I kept all of my old rock and it was an instant "day-of" transfer of tank and corals" I also added a good bit of pukani and aquamaxx dry rock as well, which was well rinsed and soaked in RODI, as well as cycled on it's own in a remote container.

A couple months prior to breaking down my old tank I started getting some STN on many of my acropora. I attributed it to excessive chemical filtration and too low of nutrients because my colors became pale also. No bite marks or signs of predation or pests, and PE was still excellent all around. I fragged up most of my colonies before transfering and sold them to several friends. Those colonies are now flourishing in all of their tanks a year later.

After tank transfer I decided to cease biopellets and let my nutrients build up a bit in the tank to try and encourage some Zoa and LPS growth, which worked. Over the months due to test results I also discontinued GFO and carbon as well, being that I didnt have a tremendous nuisance algae problem and my NO3 and PO4 always came in undetectable. After 6 months or so with my current tank I started to re-introduce acropora, which I had NONE of left upon tank transfer.

I started with frags of my old colonies to see how they would do. Within a few weeks all STN and died entirely, despite every effort to save them via fragging and feeding. Since then for the past 6 months it has been more of the same. I've tried over and over buying frag pack after frag pack of acropora, only to watch them all STN and die within a few weeks of going in the water.

Acropora have been my passion in the hobby since I started and it's been impossible for me to stomach not keeping them and going another direction. To date I've lost probably 30 unique acropora frags I've attempted in the past 6 months, with only 4 remaining alive, and growing very very very slowly. Those who seem to survive are an acropora hyacinthus, ora hawkins echinata, purple acropora meridiana, and tricolor valida.

I test religiously and am very particular about not putting my hands in the tank more than necessary, strict dipping policy for all corals, and really focusing on stability. Yet no matter what I do, or don't do, Acropora specifically just seem to die so quickly for me.

Montipora, LPS, Stylos, Pocillopora, Zoas, all grow exceptionally well. I frag my montipora colonies monthly just theraputically to keep them from taking over too much space, I can barely keep up. I'm increasing my 2 part dosing almost weekly just to meet their demand. Maxima clam doing well too.

I have a friend getting out of the hobby who I'm going to pick up several acros from. I havent tried any new acros in a few months now because I've been afraid to, but I'm so dissatisfied with my tank as it is. Any ideas on what could possibly be causing my grief and what I can do to maybe succeed better this go around? I have a newborn in the house and wife is in school right now so time limits me from doing what I really want to do which is shut the tank down entirely, nuke the rock, sell the tank itself, buy a new one, and startover.

Ideas?

 

[acesq]

First thought: those BML Actinic strips throw alot of UV. Did you use one on your old tank? If not, what intensity and light period do you run them?

 

[Bpb]

I knew I'd forget something. It's the original BML not the XB version first. Second My photoperiod currently is as follows

1 hour "dawn": BML steady at 10% (minimum operating strength)
2 hour ramp up: BML 10% - 100%
7 hour full photoperiod: MH come on and BML at 100%
2 hour ramp down: BML 100%-10%

12 hour total photoperiod

MH bulbs are due for replacing right now. I don't have a par meter but they're a year old now. Hanging to where the bulb arc is roughly 9" over the water. No sign of light stress from any other corals, zoas big and happy looking, fluffy lobos ect. My highest coral in the tank is a green Montipora Stellata that is at the waters surface all the time, and cannot grow any higher so it's branching laterally now, and directly under one of the bulbs. It's color is very deep and vivid with fantastic PE. I increased the BML maximum intensity from 60% up to 100% slowly over many months, going up by 1% every 2-3 days.

Lastly, my old tank was grown out with T5HO exclusively. The change to MH/LED was done when I changed tanks. The light change from T5 to my current arragnement hasnt been a suspect because my old colonies are growing happily under a multitude of different lighting styles now in several friends tanks, plus, a year should have been adequate time to acclimate to my current lights. Nothing ever dropped up high right from the get go. I always let everythign spend at least a month on the sandbed first

 

[Pife]

Definitely not brief. Lol ��

 

[Bpb]

Ha Ha sorry. I just know everyone's always all
(entire post content)

"ERMAGERRRD! My coralz r dyin' wut do I do? Y dis happen!?!?! Petsmart tested my watr 'n dey said all tests wer perfect!"

 

[acesq]

If your water parameters are good (they appear to be) and your RO/DI is functioning properly, and there are no pests, I would reduce the intensity of the BML actinic strips way down and see how things respond over the next few weeks. I would not dismiss the possibility that it is the light despite your careful efforts to increase slowly over time. There is a finite number of things that could be wrong and besides water quality, pests and flow, light is one of them.

Also, I have found that some corals are much better able to handle UV than others, which may explain why not all are reacting the same way.

 

[Bpb]

recommend a maximum intensity? Would it be wise to work my way back down to that, or lower it immediately?

 

[Bpb]

I wouldnt be opposed to cutting it entirely during the halide photoperiod because the Radiums have perfect color all by themselves honestly. I do like having a dawn dusk ramp up. I would actually prefer to add 2-4 t5ho lights in place of the leds, but I don't have the canopy space for prefab units, and I quite frankly am a total chicken when it comes to doing any form of DIY electrical work, even if its as simple as sticking a wire into a T5 end cap so I won't do any sort of retrofit

 

[jimrawr]

If your water parameters are good (they appear to be) and your RO/DI is functioning properly, and there are no pests, I would reduce the intensity of the BML actinic strips way down and see how things respond over the next few weeks. I would not dismiss the possibility that it is the light despite your careful efforts to increase slowly over time. There is a finite number of things that could be wrong and besides water quality, pests and flow, light is one of them.

Also, I have found that some corals are much better able to handle UV than others, which may explain why not all are reacting the same way.

I agree with this. Many advanced aquarists have problems with LED lighting. LEDs really need fine tuning and aren't plug & play like MH or T5s. Just look at the "Changing from LED back to MH/T5" thread to see how many people are in the same boat.

I'm not bashing LED's, clearly they can produce fantastic results. Also clearly not as easy to get those results. I'd take a close look at your lighting.

 

[Bpb]

Bored as can be at work and I have apex fusion. Light profile is doing its thing and the halides will be on soon. I went ahead and modified the BML profile from here to drop down to 50% during the 7 hour MH on time. Radiums have a tremendous amount of blue, I don't think i need to supplement that as much during the period when they're on. Would that be a good starting point or would you folks recommend dropping it even lower? I still am keeping the 10-100% ramp up and ramp down. I imagine knocking down such a long chunk of time to a lower intensity may be sufficient?

 

[acesq]

I have my BML XB actinic strips down to 10%. I used to run them up to 35% then stupidly increased them to 60% and within a week had fried the tips of half my acros. Once the corals recover, I'll decide whether to increase the intensity.

 

[Bpb]

That's lower than I would have expected. Tell me about the rest of your lighting? Are they supplements to MH? I see you run a 340 gallon tank so I'm assuming it's 30+" tall. Perhaps I should lower the intensity further. My big deal is that I'm trying to get things as stable as possible and I know the quickest way to make a bad thing worse is to constantly be changing up lighting intensity, so I'd like to pick an appropriate intensity and stick with it and not go up down up down up down.

 

[ReefWreak]

I have my BML XB actinic strips down to 10%. I used to run them up to 35% then stupidly increased them to 60% and within a week had fried the tips of half my acros. Once the corals recover, I'll decide whether to increase the intensity.

This is educational, thank you.

My tank is entirely LED lit with a RapidLED retrofit kit (biocube 29) and I'm running only two light control settings, all Royal Blues on one string and the UVs (4) with white, red, and green. Knowing the above, I'll be even more careful with those UVs than I have already been.

OP, hopefully with turning down the Actinic will help, though honestly I'm a little skeptical, considering how low BML runs their LEDs to keep them cool in their housing. Also another "boogeyman of last resort" worth checking if everything else is coming up short might be stray voltage?

 

[markalot]

I answered in the lighting forum but I'll also answer here. I'm running my BML 20K MC fixture at 50% now, I was running it at 70%. I have some acros colored up while others are brown. My main lights are an ATI 80Wx6 Sunpower running P+, B+, C+, C+, B+, B+

This was my par running the BML at 75% and lights 12" above glass tops.

Good color

Brown!

Both receive light from the T5's and the BML strip, both were receiving about 380 PAR, now about 330 (Apogee, Electric mode)

 

[Bpb]

Thanks for posting. I recognize that post now. I read alot of threads on slow days at work and get mixed up in them. BML does drive their diodes lower than others, but if you are able to spend a little time checking bins from some of their suppliers you'll see that alot of thos Philips Luxeon top bin diodes run at tremendous efficiency and don't need as much juice to pump out as many photons. It's all fine on paper, but the par data on their strips is pretty widely known and tested, even outside of manufacturer reports. Unfortunately I don't have any saved links to supply, just what I've read and remember.

On stray voltage. I've never checked for it. I always assumed if there was a voltage leak you'd get a hell of a shock on account of saltwater being an incredibly efficient medium for electricity. I often stupidly get my hands in the water with bare feet and even puddles on the floor in front of the tank (like during water changes, coral pruning, or refugium trimming. How does one check for stray voltage?

 

[acesq]

Markalot. Your tank looks great. The big difference between our setups is that you are using the BML 20k strip which has 2- 405nm LEDs per foot while my BML Super Actinic has 5- 405nm. That's a big difference in UV output and the effect on some of my corals has taken me by surprise. Do you keep all three channels at at 75%? (I like the control with the MC fixtures, mine doesn't have that) What lenses do you have?

My main lighting is also T5, but I am using a 60"x8 Sunpower.

 

[markalot]

Markalot. Your tank looks great. The big difference between our setups is that you are using the BML 20k strip which has 2- 405nm LEDs per foot while my BML Super Actinic has 5- 405nm. That's a big difference in UV output and the effect on some of my corals has taken me by surprise. Do you keep all three channels at at 75%? (I like the control with the MC fixtures, mine doesn't have that) What lenses do you have?

My main lighting is also T5, but I am using a 60"x8 Sunpower.

Howdy,

I have the blue and UV channel tied together and run both those and the whites at the same percentage. I have another APEX dimming cable now but so far too lazy to crawl down there and hook it up.

I didn't even think of the acros when fiddling with the BML fixture. My main goal is to help light the front of the corals and add just enough shimmer that the tank doesn't look so flat. I've been tempted to run only the white channel and bring up the blues just for morning/evening simulation.

 

[bobssecrtsn]

Whats your pH fluctation like?

 

[Bpb]

Pretty standard. Any odd spikes are from cutting the pump for coral feelings and a doser going off simultaneously, or from pouring in freshly mixed saltwater

 

[bobssecrtsn]

im thinking if your dosing ALK hourly, your pH might fluctuate more then 2 degrees, i might be wrong but in some cases SOME sps doesnt like that?