Another croshhatch question

[dman17878]

At what size can you distinguish sex a crosshatch trigger? My male did not survive shipping and the female is only 4" or possably smaller. From what I read males dont exist in this size .I assume that means that you cant tell the diffrence at this size,at what point can you tell? The person whom I purchaced it from is plaining to replace the male but I was thinking what if this one is a male

 

[jmaneyapanda]

Are you asking how to tell the sexes apart? They are dimorphic, so it is quite easy. Perhaps I dont understand what you're asking.

 

[dman17878]

when they grow the colors change and the diffrence is aparent when their small the color is not the diffrence. Im not sure what the difference is, or if you can tell the diffrence. But at some point (growth 4" -?) you should know if actualy a male of a female. Im trying to find out what is the physical difference other than color, and if there is no difference when do color changes start so you can sex them?

 

[zemuron114]

males below 5" are extremely rare. even at 5-6" are hard to find. females turn into a male when the harem requires it. usually the bigger females are more dominant over the smaller ones so they turn to male first - reason why there aren't any small males. I have seen a couple 4" males though.

 

[dman17878]

From what Ive read "neither simultaneous nor sequential hermaphrodism occurs within the family Balistidae" so this i take this to mean that they dont change but they are different from the beginning.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12157553#post12157553 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dman17878
From what Ive read "neither simultaneous nor sequential hermaphrodism occurs within the family Balistidae" so this i take this to mean that they dont change but they are different from the beginning.

Where have you read that? I am more curious rather than opinionated. I have looked for research on this topic, and have ben unable to find it, but it appears yuo have found some. Thanks.

 

[dman17878]

I figured that I would update here instead of starting new thread. It turns out that the small female is actually a male it started changing color when I introduced a male bluethroat /crosshatch hybrid .When I introduced the new fish the smaller female would not tolerate it she chased and chased it untill I finally removed the male hybrid and placed it in my acclimation tank( with another small rejected male crosshatch). She shares the tank with a larger female without problems .Its been aprox 4 weeks and the hybrid is fully healed and back to normal but Ive noticed the small female is changing color!!!! The tail was yellow now its orangish red and ths soft dorsal and anal fins are turning bright yellow. Everything that I find says that these fish are diamorphic so does this mean that the sexes cannot be distinguished in some triggers untill they grow beyond a certain size? Im compiling pics and will post later in the morning

 

[myerst2]

Everything that I find says that these fish are diamorphic so does this mean that the sexes cannot be distinguished in some triggers untill they grow beyond a certain size? Im compiling pics and will post later in the morning

The majority of triggers cannot be sexed at any age or size. Blue throats, Crosshatches, Goldenbacks?? are the exception and not the norm for visible sex differences.

I am confused initially you said you read that "neither simultaneous nor sequential hermaphrodism occurs within the family Balistidae" Like Jeremy I wonder where you read this?

Then you say the complete opposite in your last statement?

Would love to see pics of the hybrid? Thanks, Tim

 

[jmaneyapanda]

IME, species which show dimorhpic qualities are "hesitant" to do so. I dont mean this in amn intentional, cognisant way but instead in an ecological, evolutionary way. Let me explain- Males that are flambuoyant and gaudy have painted themselves as easy targets for predators. as such, they only "want" to show this when it is time to breed- ie-competition or females are present. In the absence, I believe their body hormonally cues them to revert to the drabber appearance, to lessen risks. Almosts all animals find it more beneficial to be sexually sleceted than to risk survival- wierd, huh? A HUGE number of birds do it with ecclipse plumaging, as do numerous other genera.

So, to make a long story longer, I believe (in total theory, not conclusive evidence), that you very well may have a male in "drag", that just started to "feather" up once the other fish arrived.

 

[dman17878]

PM sent. The last statement is more of a question . Everything that Ive read led me to believe that you can see a definative diffrence in the males and females and that the small males just dont often make it to the U.S market . In my original question I was attempting to find out if this change happends and about when. I guess the trigger answered my question.

 

[LargeAngels]

As far as small males not making it to the US market I think zemuron114 pointed out that there just aren't many small males, and he means in the wild as he collects them.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13370482#post13370482 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LargeAngels
As far as small males not making it to the US market I think zemuron114 pointed out that there just aren't many small males, and he means in the wild as he collects them.

On that I comment, I would suggest that there probably arent very many small *physically obvious* males. I would speculate there are bioligically identifiable males whom just have dull or female coloration. But, again, I am merely speculating.

 

[Grouperhead]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13370830#post13370830 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jmaneyapanda
On that I comment, I would suggest that there probably arent very many small *physically obvious* males. I would speculate there are bioligically identifiable males whom just have dull or female coloration. But, again, I am merely speculating.

I agree with this sentiment.

Would love to see some pics of bluejaw x crosshatch also